late romantic, 20th century music

[Henk]

I'm not really sure how Prokofiev and Shostakovich fit in here...? (Unless it's a very, very, very broad defitinition of "romantic" we're talking about.)

There are many suggestions here that I'd second but I'm too lazy to go through the thread again. Let's just say that Rachmaninov and Szymanowski sort of stayed at the top of my head after reading it all once. Two very different brands of "late romantic" but both certainly qualify.

Also Karlowicz and Zemlinsky. (Though I've heard very little of the latter.)

You'd certainly want to give the "later" Penderecki a try. Anything written in the late 1970s up until today. Not the earlier works, though. (But, knowing your tastes, there's no reason to avoid those earlier pieces either. )

And if I may be permitted something a bit more far fetched, I'd suggest Lutoslawski's Piano Concerto as well. 0:)

Made some purchases. Already have some Lutoslawski (the Philips 2 cd set), but Szymanowski and Penderecki were lacking in my collection.

[jochanaan]

I'm still not sure I understand your thread heading, Henk.  How "20th-century" do you want to go?  I suppose my reputation here is of a modern-lover, but I also enjoy a lot of late Romantic and Neoromantic music.

But I'd second an earlier mention of Howard Hanson.  He has to be considered a Neoromantic rather than a Romantic, because he wasn't really part of the European Romantic tradition like Rachmaninoff, Elgar or even Sibelius, but his music is both exciting and tonal.  His best-known work is the Second Symphony, titled "Romantic." Hanson was also a very fine conductor and recorded (I believe) much of his own music on the Mercury label, including Symphony #2.

Also, if you're interested in a different approach to tonality and "Romanticism," try Alan Hovhaness.  His music is very much its own, not part of the "Romantic tradition" at all, but very beautiful and strictly tonal.  Like Hanson, his best-known work is Symphony #2; Hovhaness' is titled "Mysterious Mountain."  There's a legendary recording by Fritz Reiner and the Chicago Symphony.

[schweitzeralan]

Don't forget Joseph Marx; or Arnold Bax.

[haydnguy]

How about Scriabin?? 

[jowcol]

Hanson Hanson Hanson!  By definition, you need to get his 2nd Symphony (The Romantic).  I love his 4th, his Organ Concerto, his Lament for Beowolf, etc.  But if you haven't heard the second, you are in for a treat. (A tiny bit was cut into the end of the movie Alien)

Anybody mention Barber yet?

There are many wise hands here who could steer you well on the Brits.  I'd start with Moeran's (only) Symphony.  But the other recomendations you will get here are stellar.  You're gonna be happy with most of the suggestions you pick up here.  Your wallet may not be as happy.

Also, Braga Santos I've discovered in this forum, and it's amazing that someone could have written something with the romantic power and technical finesse in his 20s as his first four symphonies.  Currently, only the 4th is in print, but you can get the rest for download at classics online.  Each is a must. 

[Cleo Telerín]

Right now I'm listening to Bortkiewicz's Lamentations and Consolations (1913); a nice concept, delightfully executed. Any fan of late Romanticism should love this.

[Ten thumbs]

For me the culmination of late romantic is Medtner's 3rd Piano Concerto.

[schweitzeralan]

For me the culmination of late romantic is Medtner's 3rd Piano Concerto.

Definately Medtner.  Many composers were listed in this thread, I won't repeat the many fine composers discussed here. Whatr is intersting in 20th century musical history is that many composers writing in the 1930's, 1940's, and 50's were conservatives for the most part, and were swimming upstream amidst  the modernist, serialist, avant-gard composers whose works were "de rigeur" ar the time.  Composers like Hanson (mentined among others), Creston, Barber, Bax, Moeran, Bernard Reichel, Ward, Palmgen, early Szymanowsli, early Scriabin, Roslavetz, Alexandrov, early Klaus Egge, plus others perhaps fall in this "conservative" category.  During the first two decades of the last century there were critics and theorists who had critized composers like Scriabin, or even Faure, for doing just the opposite; these were accused at one time for developing themes, harmonies, or modalities often referred too as "late tonality."  The opposite problem was that later composers like Bax, Hanson, were considered too conservative and were not "up to par," as it were, being that music had to be "progressive,"  or "au courant." Several composers writing in mid century were too romantic.  During the last two or three decades this apparently had come to pass, and the once criticized composers who were not "in the club," at the time, are now revered; their works have been long available in CD recordings.

[flyingdutchman]

All the known suspects. 

How about composers like Marx, Reznicek, Rontgen, von Hausegger, and Gram just as an example.

Check out the Dacapo and CPO labels for these and more.

[Josquin des Prez]

ENESCU 

[flyingdutchman]

Enescu, another one of the usual suspects.

[flyingdutchman]

Wetz, Atterberg, Peterson-Berger, Rangstrom. Weingartner.

[pjme]

  aha! so Harry isn't the only person who buys CPO records!  0:)

I love late Romantic music....in well defined doses.
The Etcetera CD with music by Arthur de Greef ( 2 pianoconcerti and orchestral songs / Pizarro : piano -Charlotte Riedijk (sopr.) and Néguet-Séguin conducting the Brussels PhO!) is delightfull.

[flyingdutchman]

aha! so Harry isn't the only person who buys CPO records!  0:)

I love late Romantic music....in well defined doses.
The Etcetera CD with music by Arthur de Greef ( 2 pianoconcerti and orchestral songs / Pizarro : piano -Charlotte Riedijk (sopr.) and Néguet-Séguin conducting the Brussels PhO!) is delightfull.

One for me to get!  Thanks!

[eyeresist]

I'm not really sure how Prokofiev and Shostakovich fit in here...? (Unless it's a very, very, very broad defitinition of "romantic" we're talking about.)

Perhaps you are not very familiar with their symphonies?!?
My core area of interest is late romantic symphonies, and I consider Prokofiev and Shostakovich to lie within this tradition, being personal and emotional, tuneful and tonal, with dense, powerful and colourful orchestration.
Prokofiev's 5, 6 and 7 have been mentioned. I would add the less-known 3 and 4 to this, and the "Classical" 1st should be familiar to all.

[Wilhelm Richard]

DELIUS!

[Maciek]

Definately Medtner.  Many composers were listed in this thread, I won't repeat the many fine composers discussed here. Whatr is intersting in 20th century musical history is that many composers writing in the 1930's, 1940's, and 50's were conservatives for the most part, and were swimming upstream amidst  the modernist, serialist, avant-gard composers whose works were "de rigeur" ar the time.  Composers like Hanson (mentined among others), Creston, Barber, Bax, Moeran, Bernard Reichel, Ward, Palmgen, early Szymanowsli, early Scriabin, Roslavetz, Alexandrov, early Klaus Egge, plus others perhaps fall in this "conservative" category.  During the first two decades of the last century there were critics and theorists who had critized composers like Scriabin, or even Faure, for doing just the opposite; these were accused at one time for developing themes, harmonies, or modalities often referred too as "late tonality."  The opposite problem was that later composers like Bax, Hanson, were considered too conservative and were not "up to par," as it were, being that music had to be "progressive,"  or "au courant." Several composers writing in mid century were too romantic.  During the last two or three decades this apparently had come to pass, and the once criticized composers who were not "in the club," at the time, are now revered; their works have been long available in CD recordings.

I would have nothing substantial to add about the majority of the composers you mention but I feel compelled to protest on behalf of Szymanowski. First of all, "early" Szymanowski would have to mean pieces written in the period between the late 1890s until about 1912 (Love Songs of Hafiz op. 26, completed in 1914, is usually considered the first piece of his "mature" period). Second of all, harmonically, the very earliest Szymanowski pieces (especially the Preludes and Etudes) were among the most adventurous music written at that time (and quite similar to Scriabin), there wasn't a trace of conservatism about them. Paradoxically, it wasn't until Szymanowski embarked on his studies with Noskowski (1901-1904), that a sort of retrograde movement could be noticed in his development. It took about 10 years to shake off Noskowski's "conservative" influence (those masterly yet annoying double fugues etc.). After that, he was again as innovative as possible - think about the novelty of some of the "middle period" pieces: the Violin Concerto, Metopes, Myths, Masques. His harmonic (atonal!) inventiveness can only be compared to that displayed, earlier - by Debussy, and later - by Bartok. And then, the middle "period" only lasted a couple of years, because at the end of World War I Szymanowski was already starting to develop a new aesthetic which would unite folk elements with a "constructivist" architecture. So the reason why Szymanowski appears in this thread has less to do with musical idiom than with a type of emotional expression that is much akin to romanticism. At least that was how I understood it. One does not have to be "conservative" to be, in some sense, a "late romantic".

[schweitzeralan]

I would have nothing substantial to add about the majority of the composers you mention but I feel compelled to protest on behalf of Szymanowski. First of all, "early" Szymanowski would have to mean pieces written in the period between the late 1890s until about 1912 (Love Songs of Hafiz op. 26, completed in 1914, is usually considered the first piece of his "mature" period). Second of all, harmonically, the very earliest Szymanowski pieces (especially the Preludes and Etudes) were among the most adventurous music written at that time (and quite similar to Scriabin), there wasn't a trace of conservatism about them. Paradoxically, it wasn't until Szymanowski embarked on his studies with Noskowski (1901-1904), that a sort of retrograde movement could be noticed in his development. It took about 10 years to shake off Noskowski's "conservative" influence (those masterly yet annoying double fugues etc.). After that, he was again as innovative as possible - think about the novelty of some of the "middle period" pieces: the Violin Concerto, Metopes, Myths, Masques. His harmonical (atonal!) inventiveness can only be compared to that displayed, earlier - by Debussy, and later - by Bartok. And then, the middle "period" only lasted a couple of years, because at the end of World War I Szymanowski was already starting to develop a new aesthetic which would unite folk elements with a "constructivist" architecture. So the reason why Szymanowski appears in this thread has less to do with musical idiom than with a type of emotional expression that is much akin to romanticism. At least that was how I understood it. One does not have to be "conservative" to be, in some sense, a "late romantic".

True.  I was thinking perhaps of Szymanowski's earlier period, perhaps his 2nd. Symphony.  His later works are much more modernist. Metopes, Masques, and Myths are superb pianistic works which suggest to some degree influences of Debussy.  I omitted mentioning another favorite of mine: Marx. His work had been largely neglected during much of the 20th century.  There is a good thread on Marx in this forum.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

LANGGAARD!

[schweitzeralan]

Diamond, Hanson, Finzi, Madetoja, Atterberg, Novak, and Suk, to throw a few more names into the hopper.

Indeed, such a superb list.  Personally I find it wonderful to see or to read comments by those individuals who are well informed and interested in so many composers' works I listen to regularly.  Many names are mentined in tis thread on the post Romanrtics.  I dabbled on about how so many of those who continued well after the early decades and continued to write romantic music, perhapsl at varying levels which include modernistic persuasions.  Many of these were criticized during their own time; and, many of their works were not performed, much less recorded. Other 20th century Romantcs could include Alexander Krein, Paul Creston, Vaino Raitio (expressionist and impressionistic color), Bax, of course; much has been stated on this, my second most favorite composer, Farwell, Palmgren, Gliere, Scriabin, Barber, Scott, Schmitt, Lili Boulanger, Alexandrov, etc., etc.