Why meditate?

[XB-70 Valkyrie]

I've had a casual interest in Eastern religions/philosophies--especially Zen and Taoism--for many years, and as a result of what I've read and heard (lectures by Alan Watts and Thich Nhat Hanh, etc), I've been interested in learning more about the practical benefits of meditation. I've tried meditating off and on over the years, but I'm a restless, fidgety person with a ton of interests, and it's hard to stay focused and maintain the effort and discipline for more than a week or so. I stay up very late (usually 3-4am) and do work at home as well as surf the web, study German, read, and listen to music. It's often very difficult to justify the time spent meditating in light of all my other late-night hobbies and work.

I've recently been talking to a meditation instructor who holds retreats all over the world, including here in British Columbia, and he has been giving me some instruction on how to meditate properly. Upon inquiring about the practical benefits, he always touts a number of scientific studies, but I've never actually bothered to get the references from him (I have no doubts about his sincerity or knowledge). A few months ago, I started practicing for about 30 minutes a day, but then travel and other responsibilities disrupted my routine, and I haven't done much lately. I'm wondering whether it is worth trying again. Alan Watts once commented that the type of person who is interested in knowing what they can "get out" of meditation is precisely the type of person who will not get anything out of it, and that any type of goal-oriented mindset is diametrically opposed to what meditation is all about. Well, great--that attitude just puts me off all the more. I've heard people, including my new instructor, comment that once you learn to meditate properly and learn to calm the mind, that you "won't want to stop". If it's merely a pleasurable, comforting practice engaged in for its own sake, that's great, but music (which competes for my late-night time and attention) gives me a lot of the same things as well!

I have a tendency toward pessimism, and often find myself spending a lot of energy trying to fight off negative thoughts. I have a very good life overall, but there are a few things that are really pissing me off right now, and logically I know I invest far too much energy and time thinking, and being pissed about them. I'd like to even out my moods and relax about things, and stop being ruled by my negative thoughts and emotions. Should I even bother with meditation?

What positive, tangible benefits does meditation confer in your experience? How long does it take to start experiencing these benefits? What type of meditation do you do? How often and how long do you practice? Every day? How long?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[Kuhlau]

You might want to read this:



It's available pretty cheaply on Amazon, and I think you'll find it interesting - particularly the section on why it's essential to first learn how to concentrate before you can meditate.

Good luck.

FK

[c#minor]

This is something I as well have been trying to "get into." The first time I ever did was in my backyard with my back to a tree when it was just about freezing and the wind was howling. This seems stupid right? Well there are no words to describe how stressed out I was and just needed to get out. So I put on some Debussy on my ipod (La Cathedrale to be exact), put the hood up on my jacket, and just sat and focused on nothing. I'm not saying that I did not focus on anything, I focused on "nothing", like focused on not letting anything enter my mind. I just sat and stayed there as my ipod rolled through some more Debussy and then suddenly there was a loud passage and I just kind of snapped back into it. I walked back in the house completely calm and with an overwhelming sense of perspective on my problems. It's like I just realized what I was dealing with was no big deal.

When I went out there I was not going out to meditate. I was going out there to get away and completely distract myself from all the stress. I think what I ended up doing was meditating. I have tried to repeat that night and I still have never got as much out of it as I did that night. It is like it's just a taste of everything from that night, still good but I would love to be able to capture that feeling in its full intensity (or lack there of).

[mn dave]

http://www.amazon.com/Zen-Brain-Understanding-Meditation-Consciousness/dp/0262011646

[XB-70 Valkyrie]

Thanks. That looks interesting.

[Mozart]

I used to meditate with music, I would sit and just focus only on the notes and nothing else would enter my mind. I found it was a good thing to do before tests so I would listen to a symphony before taking one. And one time this girl sat right next to me for god knows how long while my eyes were closed listening to the music. Kind of creepy....

Anyways I need my ipod for it...it just doesnt work without headphones because there are so many background sounds in Baja California, cars, sirens, gunshots, drunkards...

[Henk]

Being bored is the western form of meditation, you don't need the eastern stuff. Just be bored and don't do things to escape from it. All kinds of processes are active in the body and transforms the self.

[arkiv]

Just follow these steps:

http://www.youtube.com/v/PNZVchh_27Q

[DavidRoss]

Apparently you are sincerely interested.  One of the best answers I can suggest is an entertaining little book by Eknath Easwaran simple titled Meditation. The greatest benefit is that it will put you in touch with who you really are...which is a pretty good thing to know!

By the way, it's not necessary to wear funny costumes, take yourself too seriously, or sit in lotus position--or even to sit at all!--in order to meditate.

I have a tendency toward pessimism, and often find myself spending a lot of energy trying to fight off negative thoughts. I have a very good life overall, but there are a few things that are really pissing me off right now, and logically I know I invest far too much energy and time thinking, and being pissed about them. I'd like to even out my moods and relax about things, and stop being ruled by my negative thoughts and emotions. Should I even bother with meditation?

Our older son experienced many of the same difficulties, as well as having ADHD.  When he joined a Buddhist sangha for the sake of learning an historically sound method of meditation, he found after a few months of practice--and associating with other sangha members--that he had a much more even tempered disposition, was less prone to anger, became more accepting of other people's shortcomings and more able to focus his attention and effort on things that really mattered to him, instead of dissipating his energy in trivial pursuits.  He credits meditation with helping him to become a calmer, more centered and easy-going person.  It also helped him to outgrow some of the self-defeating attitudes and behaviors of adolescence and to become a more confident and self-assured (not cocky!) young man.

[bwv 1080]

Years ago in college I used to go to an ashram where Kundalini yoga was taught, this was the basic technique (the teacher studied with author), which I found pretty effective even if as in most Eastern mystic traditions, the claims are overblown and the guru /disciple tradition attracts alot of seriously defective characters

http://www.kalima.org/teach-rudra-rudi.php

[drogulus]

     It appears to be a substitute for religion or, alternatively, thought. So, what about meditation attracts seriously defective characters? Perhaps a combination of pointlessness and mystery. Perhaps, I dare suggest, the unanswerability of the question "Why meditate?" is part of it. I mean a good answer, not "I'm hopelessly adrift in life but too cool to admit defeat and join mom and dads church."

     OTOH, maybe that is a good answer, in the sense of a truthful one.

     There are claims from non-idiotic sources that meditation has genuine benefits. Removed from the cultic aspects it might someday be valued for what's good about it. As things stand, the proponents are the worst sort of advertisement for it's usefulness.

[Josquin des Prez]

The amusing part is that many of those who fall for this pseudo-mystical eastern crap are probably hardcore atheists. Nothing like revolting against ones own spiritual traditions and superstitions by adopting those of other cultures.

[karlhenning]

Our older son experienced many of the same difficulties, as well as having ADHD.  When he joined a Buddhist sangha for the sake of learning an historically sound method of meditation, he found after a few months of practice--and associating with other sangha members--that he had a much more even tempered disposition, was less prone to anger, became more accepting of other people's shortcomings and more able to focus his attention and effort on things that really mattered to him, instead of dissipating his energy in trivial pursuits.  He credits meditation with helping him to become a calmer, more centered and easy-going person.  It also helped him to outgrow some of the self-defeating attitudes and behaviors of adolescence and to become a more confident and self-assured (not cocky!) young man.

Most interesting, Dave.

It appears to be a substitute for religion or, alternatively, thought.

That's a curious remark, Ernie, particularly in light of Dave's story above.  It seems to me much more a compliment to than 'substitute for' religion, and a practice which focuses and improves thought, rather than 'substituting'.

The amusing part is that many of those who fall for this pseudo-mystical eastern crap are probably hardcore atheists. Nothing like revolting against ones own spiritual traditions and superstitions by adopting those of other cultures.

As usual, your pet antipathies have muddled whatever might have passed for thought in that noggin of yours.

But then, I suppose, if you were to divest yourself of all your prejudices, hardly any of you would remain, what?

[Josquin des Prez]

Just follow these steps:

http://www.youtube.com/v/PNZVchh_27Q

What a freak. The western man is truly becoming one of the most pathetic creatures on the planet.

As usual, your pet antipathies have muddled whatever might have passed for thought in that noggin of yours.

I cannot help it. It is just too amusing to see a people who has long lost all ability to think conceptually and deal with the "unseen" (to paraphrase Elder George) trying to delve into the conceptual wisdom of an alien civilization, believing they can tap into its mysteries by mimicking the gestures, or by donning the proper attire. Yet, of the philosophical writings of Plato they probably know nothing, which is ironic, since it is from India that Plato derived many his own metaphysical ideas, and he understood much of their philosophy without having to adopt any of their superstitious practices in return. Amazing, isn't it? Of course, trying to explain this to a feminized western sheeple is an act in futility. Since they cannot grasp the immaterial element of philosophy they devote themselves to aping whatever image of those traditions they have formed in their head, which is as grotesque a sight as you can find.

[DavidRoss]

Ernie & "Josquin"--two peas in a pod.  At times I wonder if you two are really the same poster.  If so, then you're really good at this, for though both characters usually express identical points of view, their diction is distinct from one another.

Keep looking and I'm sure you can probably find another thread in which you have nothing to contribute except for your cautionary example to others of the crippling nature of arrogance joined with ignorance.

[Josquin des Prez]

Who is Ernie?

[karlhenning]

Who is Ernie?

drogulus

[bwv 1080]

Eastern traditions are like any belief system in that they attract their share of religiopaths

This was a good article by science writer John Horgan:

http://www.johnhorgan.org/why_i_gave_up_on_zen_23599.htm

The goal of Zen, Sumi said, is to restore us to a state of child-like innocence. She showed us a photograph of Ho Chi Minh sitting on a beach surrounded by kids, one of whom was pulling the despot's beard. This child was acting spontaneously, with no self-consciousness or anxiety, Sumi said. "Just do it," she summed up, smile-frowning. Is this the goal of Zen? I wondered. To regress to the mindless hyperkineticism celebrated in sneaker ads? And anyway who said childhood is so great? My young son and daughter had plenty of anxious, miserable moments.

Sumi told us about a master who asked a monk "What is dharma mind?" and whacked him whenever he tried to answer. Why, Sumi asked us with a mischievous glint in her eye, did the teacher hit the student? I started to speak, but Sumi cut me off with a loud "Ahh!" Someone else spoke and again Sumi interrupted: "Ahh!" Her expression was tremulous, triumphant. Eventually she explained the master's point: language prevents us from seeing the world as it truly is. I thought how tired I was of this Zen cliche. How many millions of words have Zen masters spouted telling us to get beyond words?

Sumi recounted how the Zen patriarch Bodhidharma went into a cave and stared at a wall for weeks on end, waiting for enlightenment. He became so enraged with himself for falling asleep that he tore his eyelids off; this was the origin of the Zen technique of open-eyed meditation. Bodhidharma used to make would-be students wait outside the monastery to cull out the uncommitted. One young man, to demonstrate his commitment, chopped off his own arm. He went on to become a great master in his own right. Sumi seemed to think these men were heros, but to me they sounded like masochists and sadists.

Some of my fellow koan-heads were also distracting. The worst was Cell-phone Man, so-called because the first time he came to Sumi's class his cell-phone beeper kept going off. During Zazen he also infuriated me by yawning, sighing, and twisting his head with a crunching noise. When Sumi at the end of our sessions asked if anyone had any questions or comments, Cell-phone Man invariably piped up, loudly, as if he were hard of hearing.

Once he told us that something amazing had happened to him the previous weekend. All the thoughts in his head began spontaneously turning into songs, and he realized that creation is nothing more than God turning silence into song, which is really just vibrations, and, you know, energy. As he related his epiphany, I watched him coolly, thinking how foolish and loathsome he was. Then I realized how loathsome I was to loathe him, and I loathed him even more.

The voice in my head kept carping when I tried to practice mindfulness outside of class, too. Waking one winter morning to freshly fallen snow, I strapped on my cross-country skis and pushed off into the woods behind our house. The sky was sunless, white, lacking features or depth, like the phony sound-studio skies in old black and white movies. The light was directionless, omnipresent; it seemed a quality of the air rather than an emanation from above. Every tree and bush was finely etched, drained of color. The leaves of the mountain laurel looked not green but black, like wet stones.

Sliding through the trees, my face pushing through my own exhalations, I thought about falling stock prices, about a local real-estate development my wife was fighting, about our daughter's cold, about my Zen class. Abruptly I realized I wasn't being mindful. My monkey mind was running wild, swinging through the trees, hooting and chattering, and I scarcely noticed where I was, what I was doing, where I was going. When I did focus on what I was doing, my thoughts tended to be exhortatory, goal-directed: Push harder. Not getting enough exercise. Watch out for that buried branch.

Stop! I chided myself. Pay attention! Be here now! So I stood in the middle of the path, leaning on my poles, expelling great plumes of mist. I gazed around me at the still, snow-dusted trees, the gnarled mountain laurel, the animal tracks criss-crossing the trail. What are those? That's deer. That's rabbit. That's...what, racoon? Stop! I told myself again. You're not being here now!

Then I rebelled against this drill sergeant in my head. This exercise in self-discipline is absurd. Every time I order myself to be here now I'm not being here now. I'm thinking about being here now. It's self-defeating from the start, like trying to remember to forget. In heeding the command, I violate it.

My rebellion spread to other spiritual truisms, to Sumi's injunction to be child-like. Childrens' spontaneity and joy spring from their self-absorption and ignorance. What do they know of death, suffering, the woes of the world? A spirituality that denies these realities is shallow, escapist. And what's so great about being in the moment, anyway? We should revel in our minds' ability to range freely through space and time rather than being trapped like animals in the here and now.

Wait, another voice countered. Am I just rationalizing, justifying my habits of mind to myself, out of laziness, or timidity? So that I can stay sealed inside my cozy intellectual perspective and avoid a deeper confrontation with reality?

As this argument raged in my head, my body stood silently. Blood pulsed in my temples, beads of sweat inched down my forehead. A tree creaked, and the chill, colorless air hissed into my lungs and out again, in and out.

Soon after this episode, I stopped attending Sumi's class. I no longer have a spiritual practice.

[Josquin des Prez]

Perhaps it's my hackneyed knowledge of the English language that gets me in trouble here, but me and drogulus generally tend to disagree more often then not, so i don't see how anybody could lump us under the same hood. He seems to be a strict rationalist, where as i believe true understanding is gained only after an inner creative process, a sort of intuition, if you will. Those are pretty divergent ideas.

[DavidRoss]

Thanks for sharing, George, and for braving the inevitable attempts at ridicule from small-minded souls trapped in samsara who've yet to begin to suspect how little they really know.  Some have learned to value knowledge rooted in experience over belief based on close-minded ignorance; given his training I suspect the OP is among them.