I'm Fed Up With Arguments Over The "Greatest" Or "Favorite"

[karlhenning]

Many people find it fun to make lists.

I know I did.

[Superhorn]

   When I mentioned Heifetz and Horowitz, I wasn't amking invidious comparisons with any other violinists and pianists.
   All I meant to say was that there are and have been many other violinists and pianists who were also very great, and not necessarily inferior to these two legendary musicians.
Take the late, great Luciano Pavarotti. He has often been subject to comparison with Placido Domingo, who is still very much alive and kicking.
  I admire both tenors greatly, and don't think that one is "better" or "greater" than the other. Domingo is probably the better musician of the two, and much more versatile, also being a conductor and administrator. And he can sing in a variety of languages,and has a much larger repertoire. But both are very great singers, and you don't have to admire one and reject the other.
   It's the same with so many other great composers, conductors, singers, instrumentalists and orchestras.
   I don't mind people making lists of their favorites etc, I don't want to stop people from doing this on anyother classical music forum. Go ahead, by all  means and do this. 
   But I stand by my comments.

[mn dave]

I'm fed up with people being fed up.

[Bulldog]

I'm fed up with people being fed up.

Right -  a little of the Joel Osteen attitude is a good thing.

[Kullervo]

I'm fed up with people being fed up.

We don't take too kindly to people who don't take too kindly around here.

[drogulus]

Many people find it fun to make lists.

    It's interesting to read them, and read the responses.

     

For example, I could list some current favourite composers (with difficulty), but I am unable to state which composers I consider objectively greatest.

     Everyone has their own reasons for agreeing that Beethoven is the greatest (example). Since the reasons don't seem to be dispositive, it's the fact of agreement that matters most. The objective factors are given different weights by individuals, who can't apply quantitative measures for their respective importance. Usually I'm not even aware of these factors, or where one leaves off and another begins. When are you responding to melody, or melody and harmony together, or an appreciation of structure? I think it's too complicated even for experts to unravel. You would need to understand how the mind works at a level of detail far beyond what's possible. What turns such a complex process into a preference?

     I can't even figure out how zillions of electrochemical signals can make me feel hungry. So it's not surprising that even smart people can't say why so many agree about the greatness of Beethoven.

[greg]

Well, if you want to know what's good or not, it's very obvious. All you need to do is be a professional musician for your whole life, and have a couple hundred recordings of the same work, and then you can THE expert on which recordings is best because you are most experienced. Then no one else can voice their opinion unless it's in agreement with yours, because it'll just be wrong.

[Kullervo]

Yes — but as soon as someone starts talking about a piece you don't know (i.e. anything outside of the core repertoire), just berate them as clueless.   

[greg]

OK! 

[springrite]

I generally do not pay attention to the Greatest or Favorites threads. I don't see much points in them. However, I can see one good use for some posters, especially beginner and people with a narrow range or a smaller collection who wants to expand. The Greatest and Favorites threads can offer them a good reference for which work they may want to explore.

[karlhenning]

     Everyone has their own reasons for agreeing that Beethoven is the greatest (example).

I should say, instead, that of those who do agree that Beethoven is the greatest, each has his own reasons 

[Harry]

I am totally in agreement. I am the greatest, and thats that!

[karlhenning]

The Steamroller hath spoken! 

[some guy]

I think we can all agree that Elliott Carter is the oldest living composer.

(But is Åke Parmerud the tallest? Let's fight about it!)

[Dundonnell]

Bet Segerstam has the biggest beard

[Lethevich]

Bet Segerstam has the biggest beard

Whoo, something I can argue about I see your Segerstam, and I raise you a Koechlin!



Brahms and Rimsky wish they were that big...

[drogulus]

Well, if you want to know what's good or not, it's very obvious. All you need to do is be a professional musician for your whole life, and have a couple hundred recordings of the same work, and then you can THE expert on which recordings is best because you are most experienced. Then no one else can voice their opinion unless it's in agreement with yours, because it'll just be wrong.

     That's the problem, G$. My way of dealing with it is to respect and try to learn from the experience of others without feeling forced to share their conclusions. The business of building a musical taste involves using what you can learn about the possibilities of future experience to guide you. A good strategy is to explore taste models that differ so much from your current version that you have a hard time understanding why this music is considered interesting. If you do that you may just find a way to make it interesting.

     So, it comes to seem lazy to just like what you like and leave it at that. Most of us here really do want to explore new music and not just sit around listening to our personal Top 40 or an approved Great List. It's a good thing when an idiosyncratic list pops up with a few odd names and omitting a few usual suspects.

[karlhenning]

My way of dealing with it is to respect and try to learn from the experience of others without feeling forced to share their conclusions. The business of building a musical taste involves using what you can learn about the possibilities of future experience to guide you. A good strategy is to explore taste models that differ so much from your current version that you have a hard time understanding why this music is considered interesting. If you do that you may just find a way to make it interesting.

So, it comes to seem lazy to just like what you like and leave it at that. Most of us here really do want to explore new music and not just sit around listening to our personal Top 40 or an approved Great List.

Hear, hear.

[Christo]

Brahms and Rimsky wish they were that big...

Just mix them and you get a composer like:
             

[karlhenning]

Birds could get lost in there.