Gardiner's Beethoven Cycle

[hornteacher]

After finally scraping up enough extra cash to purchase Gardiner's Beethoven Symphony Cycle I am officially now a period instrument nut.  What a great set of recordings!  I've heard period instrument performances before (mainly with Baroque music and Mozart Operas) but this set opened by eyes to what could be done with Beethoven.  The sound is so warm with the gut strings, valveless brass, and actual wood woodwinds (don't even get me started on the awesome timpani sound).

Sigh, what a wonderful experience the past few days has been. 

[JoshLilly]

Sounds like my experience!!
I went from "Beethoven's symphonies are okay, but he didn't know how to orchestrate", to "WOWZERS I LOVE THESE THINGS", based on this set alone. I won't listen to anything else, I'm that spoiled by it.

And the timpani are great because they're played the way God intended, with no padding on the sticks. It gives maximum clarity, instead of vague rumbling, during a timpani roll you can hear every single strike. I always wondered what that verse in the Bible meant, "And the Lord sayeth, thou shalt never put padding on thy me-damned timpani sticks", and after getting this box, I finally understood.

This set is Yes. Yes. YES!!!  (You'll have what I'm having)

[hornteacher]

And the timpani are great because they're played the way God intended, with no padding on the sticks. It gives maximum clarity, instead of vague rumbling, during a timpani roll you can hear every single strike.

On animal skins too if I'm not mistaken.

[JoshLilly]

Gardiner killed real cats for that recording. It's all in the booklet.

[PerfectWagnerite]

Listen to the final movement of the 5th, at 8'32'', the piccolo flute completely misses an entrance. How they didn't fix that is inexcusable. I know it says live recording but come on...

Some of the stuff Gardiner says is pretty dumb also. He says that by using a smallish orchestra of about 60, he achieves more clarity in the final movement of the 8th, especially the fast triplets section, so that instruments are not "running into one another". Plenty of full ensemble recordings like Blomstedt and Dohnanyi achieves this clarity so what the hell is he talking about. In addition, he says the the calf-skin timpany with hard sticks are better because they don't sound muffled (not sure if that is the word he used). I am sure he hasn't heard Levine's Ring Cycle with the Met Orchestra then. The timpani is hard and frightening when Fafner enters in Das Rheingold and it doesn't use calf-skin. I think a lot of it is just marketing and trying to be different.

Also, if there is one instance where period instrument doesn't work, it is the first movement of the 7th. That breathy, whimpy sounding flute with little or no vibrato can't possibly express the range of emotions that the modern flute can.

But overall it is a very good cycle.

[Gurn Blanston]

Unquestionably my favorite too, although I do my best to not limit myself in Beethoven symphonies. I go through all of the performances I have, and when I come back to this one it is even more enjoyable.

Damn, I knew they should have fixed that piccolo thing! Now PW will never be happy...  

[hornteacher]

Listen to the final movement of the 5th, at 8'32'', the piccolo flute completely misses an entrance. How they didn't fix that is inexcusable. I know it says live recording but come on...

I assume you mean missed the note as opposed to the timing.  It sounds like the enterance is at the right time but the note is flubbed.

I agree the cycle isn't perfect, but it did allow me to hear great things I'd never heard before.  I agree about the problems with the 7th, I also think the finale should have been faster, but that's my personal preference.  The horns sound really nice though.  The highlights of the cycle for me are the Eroica and the 5th.

[PerfectWagnerite]

I assume you mean missed the note as opposed to the timing.  It sounds like the enterance is at the right time but the note is flubbed.

I agree the cycle isn't perfect, but it did allow me to hear great things I'd never heard before.  I agree about the problems with the 7th, I also think the finale should have been faster, but that's my personal preference.  The horns sound really nice though.  The highlights of the cycle for me are the Eroica and the 5th.

The entrance is on the E above middle C, hardly a difficult note on either the flute or piccolo, don't know how they flubbed it. Sounds like the piccolo player couldn't decide whether he wants to come in or not and did a little bit of both. I do agree that the 3rd and 5th are very well done. I don't particularly care for the 6th. Those vibrato-less strings don't do it for me in either the 2nd or last movement. But the storm is very well done indeed.

Damn, I knew they should have fixed that piccolo thing! Now PW will never be happy...  

That is just laziness on DG's part because it is an easy thing to fix. You can even record the piccolo part separately and paste it on.

[Josquin des Prez]

The grand majority of Gardiner's recordings make me comatose but the Beethoven set is particularly dreadful.

[PerfectWagnerite]

The grand majority of Gardiner's recordings make me comatose but the Beethoven set is particularly dreadful.

Well if you cannot stand period instrument performance yes this set is not your cup of tea. I prefer modern instruments also, for the stamina, richer sound, more flexibility, etc.. Period instrument performance sounds too much like a revival of some sort, like a museum piece, or a Handel opera seria. Put a gun to my head and I would probably take a couple of modern cycles over this one but as far as period instruments go it is pretty good, not as good as Hogwood (less trenchant readings but even more shocking sound picture), on-par with Norrington, and WAYYYY better than the awful Goodman set on Nimbus.

On a unrelated note: is the Orch. Rev. et Romantique another name for the English Baroque Soloists? Gardiner seems to imply that in his bonus CD talk.

[Josquin des Prez]

Well if you cannot stand period instrument performance yes

It has nothing to do with period instruments. I simply don't like his conducting.

[Brian]

I love his Mozart 40 and 41 - really incredible CD - this sounds like a set I need, too. How does it measure up to Hogwood's? I have heard the Hogwood 4 and thought it was fabulous!

[FideLeo]

I love his Mozart 40 and 41 - really incredible CD - this sounds like a set I need, too. How does it measure up to Hogwood's? I have heard the Hogwood 4 and thought it was fabulous!

Hogwood's Mozart syms don't measure up with Gardiner's, at least on record.  (It doesn't help that most "late" symphonies were recorded early on in the Hogwood integral project.   Gardiner has focused on the popular ones, probably a wise decision.)  H's Mozart keyboard concerti with Levin are another matter.

[BorisG]

It has nothing to do with period instruments. I simply don't like his conducting.

My sentiments also.

[Harry]

For me Gardiners set is the best on the market, Period!

[The new erato]

If you like this you are strongly advised to buy the record on the Alpha label with piano concertoes 4 & 5, a truly amazing record in so many ways!

[FideLeo]

If you like this you are strongly advised to buy the record on the Alpha label with piano concertoes 4 & 5, a truly amazing record in so many ways!

I don't know how the Schoonderwoerd and the Gardiner are exactly comparable (pray tell?) but I do agree that the Alpha recording is an ear-opener.  Based on PC4's premiere at the Lobkowitz palace, it gives some good idea of what "private previews" of artsy music were like in those days.

[Holden]

JEG = boring IMO. I've heard the cycle was very unimpressed and this is typical of the man. I'd take Hogwood or Goodman over JEG any day but I'm not that impressed with them either. If you want a good cycle with an HIP approach then audition the Harnoncourt COE

[Valentino]

I don't have the Gardiner set, but I's probably for me, judging by what the same forces do in BBC's film "Eroica". That's my favourite recording of the 3rd, I even prefer it to COE/Harnoncourt.

[Bunny]

I don't have the Gardiner set, but I's probably for me, judging by what the same forces do in BBC's film "Eroica". That's my favourite recording of the 3rd, I even prefer it to COE/Harnoncourt.

Be prepared -- the performance of the Eroica on the dvd is not the same one in the symphony set.  That's a wonderful performance that I would recommend to anyone who already has the set.  The one in the set is perhaps not quite as exciting, but it is still extremely well done.