The Sigmund Freud thread.

[vandermolen]

What are your views on the significance of Freud? Does he deserve to be regarded in the same light as Darwin, Newton, Copernicus etc as the discoverer of some essential truth? He is a much derided figure nowdays but I believe that there is a great deal in his theory of the subconscious mind and the importance of dreams. I regard his Interpretation of Dreams (1900) as of enormous significance.

[Renfield]

"The discoverer of some essential truth", no. But his obsession with the subconscious, even just as a notion of ripples under the surface of consciousness was catalytic to an important shift in perspective from "me" to "my mind", and for that alone Freud was himself essential.


(This being my view in brief, hurriedly typed as I'm leaving. If you want a more extensive discussion, however, I'd be more than glad to not "contain the giant China" or investigate the creator of the universe, for a change!)

[Homo Aestheticus]

I am not a scholar but my brief take on Freud is that he put way too much emphasis on biology/instinct and not enough on culture/environment in determing personality and the development of neuroses.

[Josquin des Prez]

I don't know a whole lot about Freud, but the sheer amount of nonsense put out by modern psychologists is enough to make view the entire discipline with suspicion. 

[Homo Aestheticus]

but the sheer amount of nonsense put out by modern psychologists is enough to make view the entire discipline with suspicion. 

No doubt there.

[Renfield]

I am not a scholar but my brief take on Freud is that he put way too much emphasis on biology/instinct and not enough on culture/environment in determing personality and the development of neuroses.

Quite the opposite. His main problem is, perhaps, that he could not see the distinction.


Josquin, the bulk of modern psychology deviates rather obsessively from Freud. You might still call it nonsense, but it's new nonsense.

[Homo Aestheticus]

Quite the opposite. His main problem is, perhaps, that he could not see the distinction.

O.k.

You might still call it nonsense, but it's new nonsense.

Just a minor point here:

The underappreciated, Neo-Freudian theorist Karen Horney most definitely is not 'nonsense'

http://webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/horney.html

[greg]

What are your views on the significance of Freud? Does he deserve to be regarded in the same light as Darwin, Newton, Copernicus etc as the discoverer of some essential truth? He is a much derided figure nowdays but I believe that there is a great deal in his theory of the subconscious mind and the importance of dreams. I regard his Interpretation of Dreams (1900) as of enormous significance.

That's the only book of his I've read (and can't even say I read word for word, since it's so bloated), but I'd have to agree. It's just amazing to me that it even took that long for anyone to develop an explanation for the "subconscious".

[Renfield]

That's the only book of his I've read (and can't even say I read word for word, since it's so bloated), but I'd have to agree. It's just amazing to me that it even took that long for anyone to develop an explanation for the "subconscious".

A lot of people had considered it, but no one insisted on it as much as to make it common parlance before Freud.


Not an uncommon theme with much of science (and not only science), if I might add. For a good example of the opposite, consider spinach!

[aquablob]

What are your views on the significance of Freud? Does he deserve to be regarded in the same light as Darwin, Newton, Copernicus etc as the discoverer of some essential truth? He is a much derided figure nowdays but I believe that there is a great deal in his theory of the subconscious mind and the importance of dreams. I regard his Interpretation of Dreams (1900) as of enormous significance.

Freud's ideas are hugely "significant," but most of his "theories" are wholly unscientific and have been largely debunked. His greatest contribution is changing the way we think about the human mind and experience — no small feat at all, by the way — but I would never put him on the same "level," so to speak, as a giant of science such as Isaac Newton.

[Josquin des Prez]

His greatest contribution is changing the way we think about the human mind and experience

But was it a good change? I don't see how psychology has ever been useful in anything, as in, ever, except in a damaging way, vis, the blight unleashed upon our society by the social sciences and their disastrous engineering attempts. Today, people live under the yoke of a fantasy world based upon a kaleidoscope of elaborate lies, each one of them fully justified by the ministers of what i now like to refer as the "voodoo" profession. It seems to me we would all have been far better off without Freud.

[Sarastro]

It seems to me we would all have been far better off without Freud.

It seems to me you would make a good oracle. Such a profound statement without even knowing the subject!

[Renfield]

I don't see how psychology has ever been useful in anything, as in, ever, except in a damaging way, vis, the blight unleashed upon our society by the social sciences and their disastrous engineering attempts.

Perhaps you should one day investigate the field in earnest.

[aquablob]

But was it a good change? I don't see how psychology has ever been useful in anything, as in, ever, except in a damaging way, vis, the blight unleashed upon our society by the social sciences and their disastrous engineering attempts. Today, people live under the yoke of a fantasy world based upon a kaleidoscope of elaborate lies, each one of them fully justified by the ministers of what i now like to refer as the "voodoo" profession. It seems to me we would all have been far better off without Freud.

Modern-day psychology has virtually nothing to do with Freudian psychology. To claim that nothing useful has emerged from the field is truly absurd.

[Josquin des Prez]

To claim that nothing useful has emerged from the field is truly absurd.

Pray tell then, what use has there been for the field of psychology, a discipline which, mind you, is based upon the faulty and unscientific work of a now discredited physician.

[Homo Aestheticus]

Pray tell then, what use has there been for the field of psychology, a discipline which, mind you, is based upon the faulty and unscientific work of a now discredited physician.

But hasn't intelligence testing been one if its greatest successes ? 

Practical, in estimating individual abilities and theoretical in exploring the cognitive functions of the human brain.

[aquablob]

Pray tell then, what use has there been for the field of psychology, a discipline which, mind you, is based upon the faulty and unscientific work of a now discredited physician.

Are you confusing psychoanalysis with psychology?

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/25/weekinreview/25cohen.html?_r=4&ref=education&oref&oref=slogin

[Josquin des Prez]

Are you confusing psychoanalysis with psychology?

Isn't one the therapeutic application of the other? Your link doesn't work btw, which is just as well, since i never particularly liked the New York Times. You haven't answered my question btw.

[aquablob]

Isn't one the therapeutic application of the other?

No. Psychoanalysis is one of many approaches to applied psychology, and psychologists that support the "practice" are in the minority.

Your doesn't work btw, which is just as well, since i never particularly liked the New York Times.

Hmm... strange, the link worked for me, and I don't have a subscription or anything. Anyway, the article basically explained how, contrary to common (mis)conception, Freudian psychology/psychoanalysis is not typically taught in colleges and universities, and the field of psychology has been focused largely on applying scientific method for quite some time now.

You haven't answered my question btw.

You asked me to name something "useful" to come out of psychological studies. "Useful" is rather ambiguous and relative, but here is one off the top of my head: memory techniques.

[vandermolen]

Many thanks for all the thoughtful replies. I have been v busy and not had time to think about them all yet but will do so asap.