Bach Chamber and Instrumental music

[kishnevi]

Dave,  Let me know if you find another piano/cello combo on this Bach Sonatas for Viola da Gamba.  It think the Argerich/Maisky CD may be the only one of its kind ...

Yo Yo Ma did a half-HIP version, with Kenneth Cooper on harpsichord.
Please note I am merely noting its existence;  I prefer the Savall/Koopman recording (which has now been re-issued by Virgin on its budget "Premium" series.)

[Coopmv]

Yo Yo Ma did a half-HIP version, with Kenneth Cooper on harpsichord.
Please note I am merely noting its existence;  I prefer the Savall/Koopman recording (which has now been re-issued by Virgin on its budget "Premium" series.)

I have at least a half dozen version of this work, mostly on harpsichord.  The issue here is getting a better version that was performed on piano than the Argerich/Maisky version.  It appears this version is still forthcoming ...

[Antoine Marchand]

I prefer the Savall/Koopman recording (which has now been re-issued by Virgin on its budget "Premium" series.)

It should be noticed that Savall/Koopman have recorded twice the Gamba Sonatas:



This is the first version from 1977, now re-issued by Virgin (ADD).



And this is the latter on Alia Vox (2000), Savall's own label.

IIRC, the first version had some problems of sound quality, with an enormous separation between the instruments. I don't know if that feature can be improved. 

[kishnevi]

It should be noticed that Savall/Koopman have recorded twice the Gamba Sonatas:



This is the first version from 1977, now re-issued by Virgin (ADD).



And this is the latter on Alia Vox (2000), Savall's own label.

IIRC, the first version had some problems of sound quality, with an enormous separation between the instruments. I don't know if that feature can be improved. 

I didn't realize they recorded the works twice, so I assumed that Savall had licensed the recording--

I just did a quick spot check of the Virgin recording (the one I have).  The viola da gamba does sound more prominent, as if the mike were placed much closer to Savall than Koopman--but to my ears, the difference does not detract from the music.

[Que]

I don't own the Hill disc, but I found out about an hour ago that it is on the Naxos Music Library.  So I've been listening to it and finding it exceptional.  Hill's lute-harpsichord sounds delightful with a subtle sparkle.  The voice interaction is great with fine balance.

Dave - You need to add this one to your "high priority" list.

Seconded (or thirded)!  The lute-harpsichord works very well in this pieces, and it adds a distinct and different flavour to what is available otherwise. I presumed you already had this Dave, but now is as good a time to get it.

I never heard a version with piano that worked musically BTW.

Q

[SonicMan46]

I don't own the Hill disc, but I found out about an hour ago that it is on the Naxos Music Library.  So I've been listening to it and finding it exceptional.  Hill's lute-harpsichord sounds delightful with a subtle sparkle.  The voice interaction is great with fine balance.

Dave - You need to add this one to your "high priority" list.

Guys - the Hill-Weber disc seems to be getting 'universal' support, and yet another approach, i.e. lute harpsichord - I own a double-CD of Hill on this instrument playing Bach (on the Hanssler label) - love the sound, so will certainly add to my 'want list'!

Not sure 'how available' a physical disc is at a good price - could find only 1 offering on the Amazon Marketplace for $70 - ouch!  MDT does not even list the disc (at least w/ my searching); Classicsonline offers MP3 downloads which I'm not into much but certainly an option - if anyone else has a source for the product, please let me know - thanks.  Dave 

P.S. - just found the disc at JPC for 14 Euros, or about $18 plus S/H - a little high for me but still a consideration, if I can put in a large order?  BTW - for our European colleagues, what 'impact' has this Icelandic volcano eruption had/has on cross-Atlantic air mail shipping - just curious?

[prémont]

I never heard a version with piano that worked musically BTW.

What else did you expect from Bach on the piano? 

[SonicMan46]

Guys - the Hill-Weber disc seems to be getting 'universal' support, and yet another approach, i.e. lute harpsichord - I own a double-CD of Hill on this instrument playing Bach (on the Hanssler label) - love the sound, so will certainly add to my 'want list'!

Not sure 'how available' a physical disc is at a good price - could find only 1 offering on the Amazon Marketplace for $70 - ouch!  MDT does not even list the disc (at least w/ my searching); Classicsonline offers MP3 downloads which I'm not into much but certainly an option - if anyone else has a source for the product, please let me know - thanks.  Dave 

Well, I couldn't wait to hear Hill on the lute harpsichord, so downloaded the disc from ClassicsOnline for $8 - burned a MP3 disc (320 kbps) and have just completed a listen on my den system - this INDEED is a wonderful recording and the keyboard instrument seems a 'mellow' match w/ the viola da gamba! Of course, no liner notes - 

[Antoine Marchand]

 

J.S. Bach - Violin Sonatas
Andrew Manze (violin)
Richard Egarr (harpsichord)
Jaap ter Linden (gamba, cello)
2 CDs
Harmonia Mundi USA

This would be beautiful without so much left hand in some sonatas. 

Right!

On the other hand I find the addition of the gamba/cello interesting.

I wouldn't go there - definitely a dud. Manze does a distorted Bach in hyperdrive and Egarr's twitchy contribution does not help either.

I totally disagree, Q. I have some quibbles about this recording, but it's not a disaster at all. I also enjoy -and in this case I would add "very much"- the harpsichord concertos by Egarr/AAM/Manze.

I also have little good to say about the Manze recording.  The use of the gamba distorts balance, and I find Manze to often display insufficient projection and attack.

Yes, I recall your long review on the Bach-Cantatas site and your disfavorable opinion.

I don't share your point of view about Manze; but, as I said before, I agree about the use of the gamba/cello in those sonatas where those instruments are used.   

P.S.: BTW, as the liner notes recall, the earliest source for these works is titled Sei Suonate a Cembalo certato e Violino Solo, col Basso per Viola da Gamba accompagnato se piace (Six Sonatas for obbligato harpsichord and solo violin, with a bass accompanied by a viola da gamba if you like).

Although this conversation began with a critical post of mine, I consider unjustified to say that this recording is "definitely a dud". But, we know, tastes differ.

Two random examples to illustrate this discussion (the first one w/viola da gamba):

http://www.divshare.com/flash/playlist?myId=11136041-f88

http://www.divshare.com/flash/playlist?myId=11136089-bab

That 2-CD set includes another interesting things, for example, a Manze's reconstruction of BWV 565 for violin:

http://www.youtube.com/v/aNfox7ORW1Q

(Unfortunately the compressed file stress the reverberation)

[Bulldog]

Antoine:

Although we are not in agreement, I admire your strong advocacy of the Manze version.  FWIW, I looked up the review of the disc in Fanfare and Classics Today; both reviews were highly favorable.

[prémont]

the earliest source for these works is titled Sei Suonate a Cembalo certato e Violino Solo, col Basso per Viola da Gamba accompagnato se piace (Six Sonatas for obbligato harpsichord and solo violin, with a bass accompanied by a viola da gamba if you like).

Despite this I have long had the feeling, that these Sonatas (except the G-major one) in the first hand was written with organ instead of harpsichord in mind. They are church Sonatas with four movements (slow,fast,slow,fast) and the use of organ would solve the for Bachs music unusual problem with the balance, making it unnecessary to put an "unnatural" restraint upon the most often very expressive violin part. In practice a violin blends well with the organ or rather vice-versa, and even a modern violin blends better with an organ than with a harpsichord or a piano.

[Antoine Marchand]

Despite this I have long had the feeling, that these Sonatas (except the G-major one) in the first hand was written with organ instead of harpsichord in mind. They are church Sonatas with four movements (slow,fast,slow,fast) and the use of organ would solve the for Bachs music unusual problem with the balance, making it unnecessary to put an "unnatural" restraint upon the most often very expressive violin part. In practice a violin blends well with the organ or rather vice-versa, and even a modern violin blends better with an organ than with a harpsichord or a piano.

Something weird is happening with my posts. 

[Antoine Marchand]

Despite this I have long had the feeling, that these Sonatas (except the G-major one) in the first hand was written with organ instead of harpsichord in mind. They are church Sonatas with four movements (slow,fast,slow,fast) and the use of organ would solve the for Bachs music unusual problem with the balance, making it unnecessary to put an "unnatural" restraint upon the most often very expressive violin part. In practice a violin blends well with the organ or rather vice-versa, and even a modern violin blends better with an organ than with a harpsichord or a piano.

Do you know a version played on organ/violin by Gester/Pierlot?

[prémont]

The only problem is that the sources are clear about the keyboard instrument to be used.

I did not say, that violin-harpsichord scoring is "wrong" - it is after all authoritised, but I think that Bach concieved the works with the balance of the organ in mind. I have heard some of these works at recitals performed with organ, and I own a (Danish) recording of the set scored for violin and organ, and even if modern instruments were/are used, the result was/is most convincing. I think I shall upload part of this recording for you.

[prémont]

Do you know a version played on organ/violin by Gester/Pierlot?

No, I do not know it. It is Martin Gester I suppose, but who is Pierlot? And which label?

[Antoine Marchand]

I did not say, that violin-harpsichord scoring is "wrong" - it is after all authoritised, but I think that Bach concieved the works with the balance of the organ in mind. I have heard some of these works at recitals performed with organ, and I own a (Danish) recording of the set scored for violin and organ, and even if modern instruments were/are used, the result was/is most convincing. I think I shall upload part of this recording for you.

I understood perfectly your point. I lost my message when I was trying to add the previous question.

[Antoine Marchand]

No, I do not know it. It is Martin Gester I suppose, but who is Pierlot? And which label?

I can't post the cover, but is Martin Gester playing the organ (Georg Westenfelder organ at the église Saint Macre de Fere-en-Tardenois) and Alice Pierot playing the violin. It's all my info. I don't know the label.

[prémont]

This is all my info: 

Alas no picture on my screen. BTW from where did you get the info?

[prémont]

Do you know a version played on organ/violin by Gester/Pierlot?

I own a recording of the Triosonatas for organ BWV 525-530 played in an arrangement by Martin Gester for different combinations of instruments. But there is as far as I remember no Pierlot there.

[Antoine Marchand]

Alas no picture on my screen. BTW from where did you get the info?

Here:

http://www.answers.com/topic/bach-trios-6-for-organ-with-violin

And here:

http://www.bach-cantatas.com/NVD/BWV1014-1023-Gen2.htm