Mozart a fraud?

[karlhenning]

The world may own the music now, but we should never forget who we have to thank for it. That's only fair.

Fairly spoken!

Someone, please: send Rob Newman to school!

[Scarpia]

But the opposite is true.

Here is my 9th request in a row. Please produce some evidence from the entire decade of Mozart in Vienna (1781-1791) for him having popularity there as a celebrated composer and performer of his own music. You see I am interested in evidence so much that I can even continue to ask for it, post after post. Must exist, yes ?

It only took one minute with google to find the information you claim does not exist.  From "The Compleat Mozart" by Zaslaw and Cowdery (Norton, 1990). p. 204

In its broad outlines, Mozart's account is confirmed by a report published in Magazin der Musik, Hamburg:

Vienna, 23 March 1783... Tonight the famous Chevalier Mozart held a concert in the National theater, at whichi pieces of his already highly admired composition were performed.  The concert was honored with an exceptionally large crowd, and the two new concertos and other fantasias that Mr. Mozart played on the fortepiano were received with the loudest applause.  Our Monarch, who against his habit, attend the whole of the concert, as well as the entire audience, accorded him such animous applause as has never been heard of here.

I'd like to see how "Newman" will squirm out of this one.

link http://books.google.com/books?id=CChN90GGcQQC&pg=PA204&lpg=PA204&dq=%22magazin+der+musik%22+hamburg+mozart+1783&source=bl&ots=4f84TAqPRo&sig=-8CR2339eFtGx67uoGR9WCbNr50&hl=en&ei=67ceSrG4HqSgM_ib7OwF&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4

[karlhenning]

I'll ask again:

When is your book coming out?

And who is the publisher?

Someone, please: send Rob Newman to school!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Here the Obituary from the Wiener Zeitung, 1791:

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Translation follows.

[karlhenning]

I'd like to see how "Newman" will squirm out of this one.

He won't see it.

Someone, please: send Rob Newman to school!

[Gurn Blanston]

It only took one minute with google to find the information you claim does not exist.  From "The Compleat Mozart" by Zaslaw and Cowdery (Norton, 1990). p. 204

I'd like to see how "Newman" will squirm out of this one.

link http://books.google.com/books?id=CChN90GGcQQC&pg=PA204&lpg=PA204&dq=%22magazin+der+musik%22+hamburg+mozart+1783&source=bl&ots=4f84TAqPRo&sig=-8CR2339eFtGx67uoGR9WCbNr50&hl=en&ei=67ceSrG4HqSgM_ib7OwF&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4

Well, obviously that is a magazine, not a newspaper. Doesn't count... 

[Herman]

Translation follows.

Don't be silly. You're wasting your time.

[karlhenning]

Don't be silly. You're wasting your time.

Well, it would be a waste of time, if one imagined that the actual facts would make any difference to the propagandist.

But if Johan were to take this to this other thread . . . the rest of us may simply find it of interest.

Someone, please: send Rob Newman to school!

[robnewman]

It only took one minute with google to find the information you claim does not exist.  From "The Compleat Mozart" by Zaslaw and Cowdery (Norton, 1990). p. 204

I'd like to see how "Newman" will squirm out of this one.

link http://books.google.com/books?id=CChN90GGcQQC&pg=PA204&lpg=PA204&dq=%22magazin+der+musik%22+hamburg+mozart+1783&source=bl&ots=4f84TAqPRo&sig=-8CR2339eFtGx67uoGR9WCbNr50&hl=en&ei=67ceSrG4HqSgM_ib7OwF&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4

Yes, and Hamburg is that well known district of Vienna, that city where Mozart married, lived and worked for the last 10 years of his life, right ?

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Don't be silly. You're wasting your time.

No. I'm only translating the opening lines:

We have alas! at this year's ending to report to our readers a piece of news very sad for the art of music: that on the 5th of this month the widely-known, sought-after and loved court composer (Hofkammerkompositeur) Herr Mozart has died of ? (Herzwassersucht) in the 34th year of his life. All of Vienna, yes, all of the musical world mourns the early demise of this immortal man.

[robnewman]

No. I'm only translating the opening lines:

We have alas! at this year's ending to report to our readers a piece of news very sad for the art of music: that on the 5th of this month the widely-known, sought-after and loved court composer (Hofkammerkompositeur) Herr Mozart has died of ? (Herzwassersucht) in the 34th year of his life. All of Vienna, yes, all of the musical world mourns the early demise of this immortal man.

So the evidence of Mozart being a celebrated and well known composer/performer in Vienna doesn't come from any newspaper of that entire Vienna decade but comes only with the announcement of his death ? Well, at least you got us, finally, to Vienna !!!  

[karlhenning]

Yes, and Hamburg is that well known district of Vienna, that city where Mozart married, lived and worked for the last 10 years of his life, right ?

. . .  in blithe disregard of how the plain meaning leaves the pith of his claim in complete tatters.

Newman's antics are the comedic gift that keeps on giving!

Go on, Newman: has anyone with any musical background taken you even remotely seriously?  No one here has.

Someone, please: send Rob Newman to school!

[robnewman]

. . .  in blithe disregard of how the plain meaning leaves the pith of his claim in complete tatters.

Newman's antics are the comedic gift that keeps on giving!

Go on, Newman: has anyone with any musical background taken you even remotely seriously?  No one here has.

Someone, please: send Rob Newman to school!

Well, all we are asking for is newspaper evidence of Mozart's fame and celebrity in Viennna during his decade there. I'm sure we will find it sooner or later Karl.  

'There will be no whitewash at the White House' !! - LOL !!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

So the evidence of Mozart being a celebrated and well known composer/performer in Vienna doesn't come from any newspaper of that entire Vienna decade but comes only with the announcement of his death ? Well, at least you got us, finally, to Vienna !!!  

Sorry, Mr Newman, now you are being disingenuous - a reputation is made, an obituary is a result. Why should a paper claim someone is well-known if no-one knew and appreciated him?

And now I'm off.

[karlhenning]

So the evidence of Mozart being a celebrated and well known composer/performer in Vienna doesn't come from any newspaper of that entire Vienna decade but comes only with the announcement of his death?

How does a Viennese musician of the 18th century acquire a reputation in Hamburg, without being celebrated in Vienna?

Don't trouble to spew out your boilerplate!

Sorry, Mr Newman, now you are being disingenuous - a reputation is made, an obituary is a result. Why should a paper claim someone is well-known if no-one knew and appreciated him?

Someone, please: send Rob Newman to school!

[robnewman]

Sorry, Mr Newman, now you are being disingenuous - a reputation is made, an obituary is a result. Why should a paper claim someone is well-known if no-one knew and appreciated him?

And now I'm off.

Nobody is being disingenuous. In reply to your question of why a paper should claim someone is well known if no one knew and appreciated him the answer is simple. So that people such as yourself could believe it to be true, though, in fact, the entire Vienna decade suggests differently. As Lorenzo da Ponte and others have already told you.

[karlhenning]

We'll ask again:

When is your book coming out?

And who is the publisher?

Someone, please: send Rob Newman to school!

[robnewman]

How does a Viennese musician of the 18th century acquire a reputation in Hamburg, without being celebrated in Vienna?

Don't trouble to spew out your boilerplate!

Someone, please: send Rob Newman to school!

Easy. He falsely describes himself as a Kapellmeister and has a group of adoring fraternity members who cheer him. The rest of the world being ignorant of his very existence. Including Vienna. As we see here in the case of Mozart 1781-1791 in his home city of Vienna.

[robnewman]

We'll ask again:

When is your book coming out?

And who is the publisher?

Someone, please: send Rob Newman to school!

It's coming out a few months after somebody produces newspaper reports of Mozart's reputation in Vienna as a composer and virtuoso performer during the last decade of his life.

The publisher is not decided yet.