Cato's Grammar Grumble

[Karl Henning]

The Best Movies of the 80s. Literally!

[Ataraxia]

Ooh! Literally...

[North Star]

Perhaps it means books based on the best movies of the 80s. 

[The Six]

Seems like more and more people don't realize that there's a "d" at the end of some words, e.g. "You're not suppose to do that," "I use to shop there," etc. Man, we're getting dumber.

[Opus106]

"You're not suppose to do that," "I use to shop there," etc. Man, we're getting dumber.

Just read it aloud, silly; there's a D-sound there, somewhere ...I think. 

[Cato]

Seems like more and more people don't realize that there's a "d" at the end of some words, e.g. "You're not suppose to do that," "I use to shop there," etc. Man, we're getting dumber.

Just read it aloud, silly; there's a D-sound there, somewhere ...I think. 

Yes, I hope it is smeared into a contraction.  The real test would be to have the seeming offenders write down what they have said!

The Six (and are you referring to the composers or       to Patrick McGoohan?) fears we are getting dumber: the spread of things like "I could care less" which is replacing the correct "I could not care less" might indicate a widening stultification  0:)

[Karl Henning]

Then, too, there are historical cases of the -d being dropped (iced cream -> ice cream). That said, not suppose to is entirely A.B. (Arrant Blockheaddom).

[Opus106]

The real test would be to have the seeming offenders write down what they have said!

It's likely that The Six came across statements like these in writing, because, unless they were from someone with a clear pronunciation, it's hard to differentiate, for example, 'supposed to' and 'suppose to' in casual speech (the 'D' sound is there, you know ). And if that person was so careful about pronunciation, he or she probably wouldn't make such a silly mistake.

[eyeresist]

could of
would of
should of

[Cato]

could of
would of
should of

Oy!  Such schmendricks these days!

[Karl Henning]

The character Groucho never played: Marzipan Schmendrick.

[eyeresist]

A new fact!

Schmendrick - "stupid person," from Yiddish Shmendrik, from the name of a character in an operetta by Avrom Goldfaden (1840-1908), Father of Yiddish Theater.

[Kontrapunctus]

[Karl Henning]

Finally reading Albert Schweitzer's classic book on Bach!  I suppose this must be in translation, still . . . is The music among which Bach grew up good English?

[kishnevi]

Finally reading Albert Schweitzer's classic book on Bach!  I suppose this must be in translation, still . . . is The music among which Bach grew up good English?

It's more awkward* than incorrect.  Perhaps this is a case of translationitis?  We'd probably write it a completely different way ("the music Bach heard as he grew up...." or something similar), which is why this sounds wrong. 

*just realized how awkward the spelling of that word seems to me.  Which is, perhaps, fitting.

[eyeresist]

Finally reading Albert Schweitzer's classic book on Bach!  I suppose this must be in translation, still . . . is The music among which Bach grew up good English?

Hmm... I would say "amidst", "amongst" at a pinch.

What's the difference between "among" and "amongst", apart from the spelling?

[Cato]

Hmm... I would say "amidst", "amongst" at a pinch.

What's the difference between "among" and "amongst", apart from the spelling?

From the sources I have available, they are equivalent.  I avoid "amongst" and prefer "among" just for the sake of simplicity.

Finally reading Albert Schweitzer's classic book on Bach!  I suppose this must be in translation, still . . . is The music among which Bach grew up good English?

I would need to see the original Deutsch: is it possible Schweitzer wrote "unter"?  Besides meaning "under" it can also mean "among."  Perhaps implied is the influence of the music "under which" Bach grew up.

[kishnevi]

Hmm... I would say "amidst", "amongst" at a pinch.

What's the difference between "among" and "amongst", apart from the spelling?

Eureka!
That's why the sentence doesn't sound correct.  The wrong preposition was used.  It would better, albeit capable of improvement, if "amid" had been used instead of "among".

"X was among Y" suggests that X was a member of a set of Ys.  "X was amid Y" suggests that X was physically located somewhere in the middle of a group of Ys.

"Bach was among many musicians in his family"--Bach was one of several musicians in his family.
"Bach was amid many musicians in his family"--Bach was (at the time under discussion) physically located in a group of family members who were musicians.

"Bach was among the bushes"--Bach was part of a group of bushes,  Bach himself being one of the bushes.
"Bach was amid the bushes"--Bach was talking a stroll in the garden.

The sentence as translated therefore carries the mental image that Bach was one of the types or pieces of music under discussion., rather than the mental image the translator wanted to convey, which was that Bach was physically located in place where certain pieces or types of music were to be found.

Credit for the goal should go to eyeresist.

[Karl Henning]

I would need to see the original Deutsch: is it possible Schweitzer wrote "unter"?  Besides meaning "under" it can also mean "among."  Perhaps implied is the influence of the music "under which" Bach grew up.

Interesting!  And . . . I think Schweitzer was Alsatian, so did he write originally in German or French?

[Wendell_E]

Interesting!  And . . . I think Schweitzer was Alsatian, so did he write originally in German or French?

Interesting.  According to wikipedia, he originally wrote it in French, there was a demand for a German edition, but instead of just translating it, he decided to rewrite it.  Ernest Newman translated it into English from the German.