Cato's Grammar Grumble

Started by Cato, February 08, 2009, 05:00:18 PM

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The Six

Here's the latest trend that's sure to make English language purists' heads explode, because grammar.

http://mashable.com/2013/11/19/because-internet-preposition/

North Star

Englisc ágenspræc purism, cool!  ::)
"Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius

My photographs on Flickr

Ten thumbs

Quote from: The Six on November 20, 2013, 08:53:50 AM
Here's the latest trend that's sure to make English language purists' heads explode, because grammar.

http://mashable.com/2013/11/19/because-internet-preposition/

I think these are examples of truncation rathe than usage as preposition. Truncation is quite common in informal language.
A day may be a destiny; for life
Lives in but little—but that little teems
With some one chance, the balance of all time:
A look—a word—and we are wholly changed.

Florestan

He cannot buy drinks, because not of legal age.

What;s wrong with the above?
There is no theory. You have only to listen. Pleasure is the law. — Claude Debussy

Karl Henning

It does not directly answer your question; but to be correct, we should say:

He cannot buy drinks, because he is not of legal age.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Karl Henning

The conjunction because needs to be followed by a complete sentence or clause, I suppose.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Florestan

Quote from: karlhenning on November 21, 2013, 05:16:58 AM
It does not directly answer your question; but to be correct, we should say:

He cannot buy drinks, because he is not of legal age.

Quote from: karlhenning on November 21, 2013, 05:19:31 AM
The conjunction because needs to be followed by a complete sentence or clause, I suppose.

You are of course right. But there is more: he can buy drinks all right, even if he's not of legal age; that he may not is a different matter altogether...  :D :D :D
There is no theory. You have only to listen. Pleasure is the law. — Claude Debussy

Karl Henning

Ah, there is that.  A combination of not being all that awake, and focused on one bit . . . .
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Karl Henning

And anyway, if the barkeep abides by the law, the young man cannot buy a drink  ;)
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Florestan

Quote from: karlhenning on November 21, 2013, 05:27:03 AM
And anyway, if the barkeep abides by the law, the young man cannot buy a drink  ;)

I'd go further and say that he even must not...  :D
There is no theory. You have only to listen. Pleasure is the law. — Claude Debussy

The Six

Quote from: Florestan on November 21, 2013, 05:10:25 AM
He cannot buy drinks, because not of legal age.

What;s wrong with the above?

It's not quite the correct way of using the New Because....

Cato

Quote from: karlhenning on November 21, 2013, 05:16:58 AM
It does not directly answer your question; but to be correct, we should say:

He cannot buy drinks, because he is not of legal age.

Right!  The only other way is to write: "...because of his age."

Not a grammar point, but a matter of reading things carefully: on Sunday one of the readers at the Mass announced the Bible passage which he would be reading.

"A reading from the Letter of Saint Paul to the Theologians."  ??? ??? ???

Well, to be charitable, I thought that, in one sense, all of Saint Paul's letters are for the theologians! 

The passage was of course to the "Thessalonians."   0:)
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Florestan

Quote from: Cato on November 21, 2013, 09:33:55 AM
Right!  The only other way is to write: "...because of his age."

Not a grammar point, but a matter of reading things carefully: on Sunday one of the readers at the Mass announced the Bible passage which he would be reading.

"A reading from the Letter of Saint Paul to the Theologians."  ??? ??? ???

Well, to be charitable, I thought that, in one sense, all of Saint Paul's letters are for the theologians! 

The passage was of course to the "Thessalonians."   0:)

I assume it was a Concilar Mass; in the Tridentine I presume it is the priest only who announces the readings, just as in the Greek Orthodox Mass. Or am I wrong?
There is no theory. You have only to listen. Pleasure is the law. — Claude Debussy

Cato

Quote from: Florestan on November 21, 2013, 09:41:32 AM
I assume it was a Concilar Mass; in the Tridentine I presume it is the priest only who announces the readings, just as in the Greek Orthodox Mass. Or am I wrong?

Lay people read the first two passages (usually one from the Old Testament and one from the New), but only the priest (or a deacon) reads the Gospel itself.

In the old days, yes, only the priest read things.
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Karl Henning

"I apologize about that." Guy on the phone said this, in just this way, more than once yesterday.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

aquablob

Quote from: karlhenning on November 21, 2013, 11:41:35 AM
"I apologize about that." Guy on the phone said this, in just this way, more than once yesterday.

I wonder if he did it on accident.

Kontrapunctus

Quote from: karlhenning on November 21, 2013, 05:16:58 AM
It does not directly answer your question; but to be correct, we should say:

He cannot buy drinks, because he is not of legal age.

I believe the rule is if the subordinate clause is the second part of a sentence, then do not use a comma.

He cannot buy drinks because he is not of legal age.

Conversely, if the subordinate clause is first, then use a comma.

Because he is not of legal age, he cannot buy drinks.

The Six

What do you do when the learned are the ones who need the teaching?


North Star

It's funny how they won't know anything about the subject they have studied. would perhaps be better ;)
"Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius

My photographs on Flickr

Karl Henning

Quote from: sanantonio on November 26, 2013, 08:05:14 AM
Does spelling really matter?

Sure it does.  Not absolutely every word, not in absolutely every context.  But of course it really matters.

It matters now, in ways which it did not in Shakespeare's day.  Probably, that is one of the changes we should consider accepting ;)
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot