Gurn's Classical Corner

[Wakefield]

Now I'm going to contradict myself. This one is calling me...

Maybe this set will call for a careful commercial evaluation because of this new box set (firstly mentioned by Que):

[Gurn Blanston]

Maybe this set will call for a careful commercial evaluation because of this new box set (firstly mentioned by Que):

Hmmmm.... 

(Oops, didn't mean to escape from the One Word Post thread).

[SonicMan46]

Agree w/ Gurn - this looks quite interesting - don't see the collection on Amazon USA yet, but about $15 @ MDT - need to check my collection of CPE to see what I own, but fortepiano & clavichord excites me - looking forward to some comments & reviews - Dave

Well posted the above a week ago and now have ordered the 5-disc box below from 'across the pond' - about ready to be released and looking forward to the recordings - Dave

[Felix]

I couldn't have a favourite period of music because they are all favourites in turn. But form a certain historical point of view i consider it rather than a favourite as the greatest period in our tradition, even if Big Bach looms in the background.  But the Classical intention was to lighten the texture to make it more graceful - until you get to Beethoven's advanced works.

But I think the greats were born in the right lace at the right time under the influence of the Enlightenment. There was a balance between the general and the particular, which the classicist gained and the Romanticits began to lose. I can't express myself well, but it was a high point of emancipation. In the giant Beethoven it was undoubtedly associated with middle class revolution. When Napoleon declared himself Emperor, Beethoven tore up his dedication to that man. He kept up the heroic style in the symphonies but went in a quite different direction which hardly ended with that transparent lightness a grace of earlier.

Homophobic yes especially in the earlier stage, but the three greats also had a considerable command of polyphony. I can go into examples if necessary. Beethoven is undoubtedly the Giant of Classicism, but there are people like Hermann Hesse, who put him on a lower rung because of his aggressiveness. Charles Rosen, says in his book that he has friends who won't have anything to do with Beethoven for this reason. Needless to say I degree with them. Maybe I have pushed away from the somewhat cosy conception of Classicism suggested above.

I have noticed that Schubert has been excluded from the Classical genre. I think he had one foot in both camps classical and romantic music. But I think he still participates in that disturbing balance of Classicism. If I were to put Beethoven on the highest mountain peak, there would be a slighter smaller peak for Schubert way above the Romantics, whom I particularly admire.

What do you think?

Yours,
Felix

[Que]

I have some good and some bad news on the Edelmann sonatas set I recently acquired:

[asin]B007R36K66[/asin]

The most important good news is that the music is quite a find, of quality that well deserving of our attention - inventive and original. German-Austrian orientated in style, with a bit of French flair added. And perfect for anyone interested in the Classical era. More good news: the quality of the playing by the late Sylvie Pécot-Douatte does the music justice: rhythmically astute, playful and inspired. And the final good news is that the set can be had at bargain price. It has been reissued by Pahia, that have acquired the rights of these recordings by French Calliope after its demise inflicted by the free choice of its owner who was under the impression that the Classical Music business was doomed.... (I hope he found some professional help after single handedly killing off one of France's finest Classical labels...)

Which brings us to the down sides  ..... amply singled out in this review by Johan van Veen. On the performance there is the issue of the instrument choice. Van Veen wonders why fortepianos have been chosen for op. 5-10 if all these sonatas would probably have been written for harpsichord? Although I like the 1st disc on the harpsichord and love to hear an all-harpsichord performance, I really don't mind. Most of the keyboard works from this period sound good on both instruments, as is the case here. Van Veen has a more serious point with his objection of the use of a late, non-period Érard for the last disc. But in the end, that doesn't detract me from the enjoyment of these sonatas either. The issue of the split sonata in the 1st disc that Van Veen mentions must have been corrected later, because on my copy things go in the right order. Opus 1, nr. 3 is however still erroneously labeled in the booklet ... though not on the back cover.

No major mishaps so far IMO. The real drawback is the "noises" that can be heard on the 3rd disc. Very distracting and a bit of a spoiler. The my ears it sounded like overtones from the instrument caused by inappropriate resonance due to malfunction. But since Van Veen claims this could not be heard on the original issue, there must be a technical error. Or maybe we are both right and these noises were edited out in the original issues but were present on the master tapes and so reappeared with the reissue?

Anyway. Considering the enjoyment I get out of these recording, I might dish out extra cash for the original issue on Calliope of at least the third disc.
Or you can always take the good with the bad at bargain price.

Q

[Gurn Blanston]

Interesting review, thanks, Que.

You are right in many ways about instrument choice. I have personally discovered that being a purist in this regard eliminates a lot of good music and performances of it from your listening agenda, and for no good purpose. As a simple matter of logic, despite the fact that in that time, people wanted a constant supply of new music, it doesn't mean that if something was a few years old or even more, it didn't get played. As long as it was good music. So an Erárd that was even 20 years newer than the music would hardly be totally inappropriate. Also, of course, nearly all keyboard music post-1770, particularly in France, was composed for both cembalo and fortepiano. Usually you can tell by the fact that dynamic markings were being added, obviously they would be superfluous for a harpsichord!

Anyway, I can empathize with Johann's sense of violated purity concerning instrument choice, but I hope he hasn't let that spoil his enjoyment, because it is a step too far.

This disk has climbed yet another notch toward the top of my wish list...

[milk]

I have a feeling that this is going to be a great recording. The samples sound great. I find myself cooling a bit to Spanyi and looking forward to a different take on CPE. Sometimes I think that Spanyi is a bit clunky.
[asin]B00HEVGKLQ[/asin]

[chasmaniac]

This grand thread moribund? Say it ain't so! Where is Uncle Connie? Let's listen again to Albrechtsberger, Michael Haydn, Dittersdorf, Vanhal, Zimmerman, Rigel, Pichl, Gossec, Tomasini, Titz, Boccherini, Brunetti, Bengraf and company! Woohoo!

[chasmaniac]

Time is so short these days, but I aim to take in these 3 items over the next few days:

Kuijken's Graun
[asin]B0000E32VY[/asin]

Giardini's string trios
[asin]B000050FKM[/asin]

Carl's contribution to the Contemporaries box
[asin]B003TLRKAK[/asin]

[Gurn Blanston]

This grand thread moribund? Say it ain't so! Where is Uncle Connie? Let's listen again to Albrechtsberger, Michael Haydn, Dittersdorf, Vanhal, Zimmerman, Rigel, Pichl, Gossec, Tomasini, Titz, Boccherini, Brunetti, Bengraf and company! Woohoo!

Thanks, Chas, for keeping it going. Good question about Connie, he just disappeared one day, sad to say. 

I've still been listening, just had my writing efforts focused elsewhere. My bad.

[chasmaniac]

.[asin]B00ARL9PRQ[/asin]

A more-or-less recent discovery of mine, I found the band's tone thin, the music easy to hear but hard to listen to, background music basically. For those of us obsessed with the classical era SQ.

Here is an educated review from Fanfare:

NARDINI String Quartets Nos. 1-6 • Qrt Eleusi • BRILLIANT 94438 (68: 40)


Italy seems to have been fertile ground for the production of world-class violinists during the 18th century, and while one cannot claim that they had a monopoly on virtuosos on the instrument, names like Giuseppe Tartini, Pietro Locatelli, and Antonio Vivaldi (to name three who come to mind immediately) make it almost seem like it. Among these stars was Pietro Nardini (1722-1793), one of the principal teachers on the instrument, who had Read more achieved fame all over Europe through his travels in the 1750s and 1760s, so that it would seem that he was destined to take his place among the touring stars of the age, enhancing his reputation even further through numerous publications of works, such as sonatas and concertos. But he settled in Florence in 1769 and never really left. Not that it mattered, of course, for students sought him out. In 1770 the young Wolfgang Mozart performed for him, as did Charles Burney, and he played in a quartet that included fellow luminaries Giuseppe Cambini and Luigi Boccherini, the so-called Quartetto Toscano. His own style was known for its expressivity, using performing technique to heighten emotional display on the instrument, particularly in the slow movements.


With such a reputation, one might think that he would have produced significantly for strings, particularly in the realm of chamber music. And indeed he did, again for his own instrument, but it is somewhat ironic that he apparently only composed six string quartets. All in major keys, they are difficult to reconcile with his pedagogical approach to playing, in that they are all very pleasant works of easy to moderate difficulty. When they were published, around 1782, the quartet had already achieved some rather distinctive characteristics, notably in the works of Joseph Haydn, and thus their apparent tameness even though written by one of Europe's acknowledged violin masters, must have come as a shock. So much so that, as the nicely written booklet notes say, particularly the German buyers rejected them. Nardini himself noted in a letter of 1789: "Maybe they didn't like them, or maybe they did not know how to execute them," noting further that when originally sent throughout the continent "nobody pointed out this problem." This, of course, is certainly one of the lamer excuses for not coming up to snuff.


So, in a nutshell, how are these six works, exactly? The answer lies in how one wishes to perceive them independently and without invidious comparisons. They are, indeed, quite well written and well formulated pieces, not progressive but certainly suitable enough for the Gebrauchsmusik of the time. They are generally dominated by the first and second violins, often in parallel thirds, with the viola acting as harmonic filler against a stable bass line. In the First Quartet in A Major, the ostinato patterns of symphonic music can be discerned, replete with lots of clichés we come to regard as "Mannheim." In the Second in C Major, the opening is so squared off that one might think Nardini was really wanting these to be produced as quadros or orchestral quartets à la Carl Stamitz. Only in the opening of the Third in B?-Major does one discern a touch of Haydn in the almost quotational themes and textures; it is as if Nardini was channeling the op. 9. Since four of the quartets are only two movements long, it is clear that the op. 9 overall format was not foremost on his mind, however, and in the two three-movement works one finds the composer's signature Adagio emerging. The C-Major Quartet has an insistent plaintive quality that begs for sentiment, while the Comodo movement of the First Quartet allows for the cello to emerge from its role with a nice line, altering the textures. In the second movement of the Fifth Quartet in G Major, the smooth legato and meandering melody almost cry out for improvisation, but there is also a sense of mystery. Only one movement, the minuet of the Fourth Quartet, doesn't really work well, for it veers off course, though there are some nice echo effects between the viola and cello. In short, these are intended to please performers and audience without requiring too much ability or thought on anyone's part, just the sort of nice and accessible works one might wish in the background to genteel conversation.


The Quartetto Eleusi performs them with a good sense of ensemble, and I am particularly happy with the blend of textures. They seem to know when to accelerate the motion and when to throttle back, giving the quartets a solid interpretation. Sometimes their sound is quite rich, like these works ought to be performed, and one would be hard put to find better for the type of music Nardini wrote. As for my recommendation, it will of course depend upon whether a listener is interested in solid, well-composed but somewhat mundane compositions in the genre, or whether there is an expectation of something new, exciting, progressive, and stimulating. For the former, these are fine recordings and I have no reservations whatsoever in recommending this disc. I find that the music is well done, the compositions delightful to hear, and the works solid technically. For those who might be on the hunt for another Haydn, they may find that Nardini is not their cup of tea. Still, these do show what the real general string quartet in circulation during the Classical period was like.


FANFARE: Bertil van Boer

[Gurn Blanston]

.[asin]B00ARL9PRQ[/asin]

A more-or-less recent discovery of mine, I found the band's tone thin, the music easy to hear but hard to listen to, background music basically. For those of us obsessed with the classical era SQ.

Here is an educated review from Fanfare:

Thanks for that, Chas. I have heard much of Nardini, as Boer says, he was famous. But I haven't heard any music of his. I'll have to pick this one up, I like the rare, Italian, Classical Era music. 

[chasmaniac]

Time is so short these days, but I aim to take in these 3 items over the next few days:

Carl's contribution to the Contemporaries box
[asin]B003TLRKAK[/asin]

The Chandos sound is too wet for my taste, but the playing is fine and the music most pleasurable. Fits into the Richter-Beck camp sort of thing.

I was oddly entranced by the middle movement of La Chasse. Had to listen to it twice! Reminded me of something, perhaps the peripatetic opening of Haydn's Philosopher? Perhaps some tumult of my past, rounded by time into an episode edified by maturer wisdom...

And maybe I'm just cracked.   

[Florestan]

I like the rare, Italian, Classical Era music. 

Then you'll love these:





Or are they already yours? 

[Gurn Blanston]

Then you'll love these:





Or are they already yours? 

No, Giordani is new to me. I will check him out. Thanks for the idea.

[Florestan]

No, Giordani is new to me. I will check him out. Thanks for the idea.

You're welcome. I'm sure you'll like him.

[torut]

I have been listening to this composer, Wilhelm Wilms, for the first time by listening to his 6th Symphony, as recorded by Concerto Köln.

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Wow. Upon listening to this 6th Symphony I'm very moved by the nuances of the melody and orchestration.

I love Wilms's Symphony No. 6 on that disc. When I first heard an excerpt of the disc on a sample CD attached to a periodical, I wondered if it was a newly discovered Beethoven's work. I purchased it as soon as I could.

I also have this (Piano concerto, Flute concerto, Symphony in E-Flat Major, Op. 14.) I think he had his own distinct style.
[asin]B000MV98EG[/asin]

I once checked audio samples of this CD (Symphony Op. 14, Op. 23, Op. 52, Op. 58) but I felt the playing of Op. 58 (Symphony No. 6) was a little dull compared with Concerto Koln. It was just a quick hearing, and I may be wrong.
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I have not heard this one yet.
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[Geo Dude]

Those Nardini quartets sound quite nice...and hopefully that (massive) CPE Bach box will end up trickling down through the Marketplace over time.

So...any recommendations for French classical period composers?  French baroque is (reasonably) well known, most of us could name some of the leading lights from the romantic period (and certainly 20th century) but....hit the classical era and they seem to have dropped off the face of the Earth!  If anyone has knowledge of this area, it will be the folks in this thread.

[SonicMan46]

Hoffmeister, Franz Anton (1754-1812) - Viennese music publisher, composer, musician, and namesake of one of Mozart's SQs - below is a post I left in this thread in 2009 - owned only 2 CDs of his works then, and now have acquired more equalling a half dozen (pics added).  But as I was reading the liner notes from these new additions to my collection, I was astounded by the number of works he wrote; so might be of interest to put together some recommendations.

Attached is a PDF file of a brief biography of the composer; also below is a list of some of his compositions and the vast number in many of the categories that I could gleam from liner notes; of course, this list leaves out a LOT of the music he wrote - e.g. I don't even know how many more 'chamber' works (for such instruments as clarinet, strings, etc.) might be added? 

Flute Concertos - 25 at least
Flute Duets - 131
Flute Sonatas - 39
Operas - 8 at least
Piano Concertos - 14 or more
String Quartets - 34 or more
String Quintets - 15 at least
Symphonies - 50 or more

So my recent purchases immediately below - comments and/or other recommendations?  Dave

     

Franz Hoffmeister (1754-1812) - a Mozart contemporary, but lived longer! Just have two CDs of this composer, both of which I enjoy and shown below:

Wind Serenades, Vol. 2 w/ Consortium Classicum (with the wonderful Dieter Klocker on clarinet!) - other instruments include clarinet, horns, bassoons, & double bass; recorded beautifully on the CPO label.

Clarinet Quartets w/ Klocker again + Vlach Quartet Prague (2 violins + cello); again CPO label.

Now, how is the Clarinet & Piano disc? May add to my 'to buy' list if good! 

 

[SonicMan46]

BOY, I cannot believe that no one has visited 'Gurn's Classical Thread' since my last post! 

Well I just left a post in the 'Listening Thread' that will become buried - a little longer than my usual there, so I'll just repost here for those interested - Johann & Carl Stamitz, father & son - part of the revolutionary Mannheim orchestra - worth exploring for those interested in the mid-18th century development of the classical orchestra.  Dave

Stamitz, Johann (1717-1757) - Symphonies w/ two different conductors & orchestras.  I was reading about the Mannheim orchestra the other day and despite owning nearly a half dozen discs of the music of Carl Stamitz, I had nothing by his father, Johann - so new arrivals below to correct that situation.

Johann Stamitz was one of the early conductors of the Mannheim orchestra and started (or added & enhanced) many of the orchestral practices that today are taken for granted (e.g. the Mannheim crescendo was almost revolutionary @ the time, along w/ a number of other nicknames - check HERE); AND, the members of the orchestra over time were extraordinary - quoted below just a few of the virtuosos & also composers (same link) - SO, if one wants to hear how the 'classical orchestra' evolved in the mid-18th century and who was one of its early innovators, then these CDs are recommended.  Dave

Members of the Mannheim school included Johann Stamitz, Franz Xaver Richter, Carl Stamitz, Franz Ignaz Beck, Ignaz Fränzl, and Christian Cannabich