Gurn's Classical Corner

[Gurn Blanston]

Who else was out there writing works for the piano in the mould of Beethoven and Schubert? (Around the same time, of course.) For the past many days, I have felt that I could survive just on the klavierwerke of these two composers. In fact, these days I don't feel like listening to anything else. And before you ask: Bach is excluded from "anything else."

FYI: I have John Field's nocturnes.

Navneeth,
I'm not sure that anyone can be accused of composing piano sonatas in the mold of Beethoven and Schubert, but a couple of names I will toss to you, people who were contemporaries with their own voices, are Jan L. Dussek and John Cramer. You would also do a lot worse than to pick up the sonatas of Hummel and Weber. Of course, all of this assumes that you have already dipped in to the works of the Sonata Master himself, Muzio Clementi....

If you are looking for specific recommendations, there are others here who are better at it than I am. But I can throw one name at you, Andreas Staier.

[Opus106]

Two votes for Dussek. Thanks, erato and Gurn.

Navneeth,
I'm not sure that anyone can be accused of composing piano sonatas in the mold of Beethoven and Schubert, but a couple of names I will toss to you, people who were contemporaries with their own voices, are Jan L. Dussek and John Cramer. You would also do a lot worse than to pick up the sonatas of Hummel and Weber. Of course, all of this assumes that you have already dipped in to the works of the Sonata Master himself, Muzio Clementi....

Although the names are not new, I'm yet to take a dip in their works. I was thinking Clementi's name might show up even though he was senior to Beethoven by nearly two decades.

If you are looking for specific recommendations, there are others here who are better at it than I am. But I can throw one name at you, Andreas Staier.

Not looking for CD recs. right now; but I'll remember Staier. Thanks. I'll youtube these names -- there are a couple of good channels specialising in Baroque and Classical that I know of -- and those should do for now for instant gratification and general toe-dipping.

[Brian]

For what it's worth, I just received a new CD of Hummel sonatas (Op. 13 No 6, E flat; Op. 20, F minor) played on a Brodmann fortepiano from the early 19th century... Chandos CD with Susan Alexander-Max. Very satisfying. Hummel wasn't quite on Beethoven's level, and his structures tend to be fairly rhapsodic, but the music is enjoyable and the fortepiano has a wonderful sound to it.

[Gurn Blanston]

For what it's worth, I just received a new CD of Hummel sonatas (Op. 13 No 6, E flat; Op. 20, F minor) played on a Brodmann fortepiano from the early 19th century... Chandos CD with Susan Alexander-Max. Very satisfying. Hummel wasn't quite on Beethoven's level, and his structures tend to be fairly rhapsodic, but the music is enjoyable and the fortepiano has a wonderful sound to it.

Looks like a nice disk, I'll look it up. I have a couple of disks of her playing Clementi sonatas on Naxos, she is a fine pianista. Also have he playing some Hummel ensemble, the Piano Quintet and a trio and a viola sonata, on Gaudeamus. That is a really nice disk anyway, and was my first Hummel.

[Antoine Marchand]

In fact, these days I don't feel like listening to anything else. And before you ask: Bach is excluded from "anything else."

   

[SonicMan46]

Wölfl or Woelfl, Joseph (1773-1812) - Austrian keyboardist & composer, born in Salzburg and taught early by Leopold Mozart & Michael Haydn - last night listening to the Keyboard Sonatas & Keyboard-Harp Duos on two separate discs; played on the fortepiano (on both recordings) by Laure Colladant w/ Catherine Michel on the harp on the second disc.  Colladant's husband is Johannes Carda, a restorer of Viennese harpsichords & fortepianos from that era, the keyboard instrument she plays is from his collection of restored instruments.

This short-lived composer was quite popular in his time and traveled extensively; first to Vienna in which participated in some 'friendly' piano duels w/ Beethoven (the matches were fairly even relative to keyboard virtuosity - they would have been playing fortepianos); he then was in Warsaw, Paris, and finally in England, where he died. 

There is no thread that I could locate on Joseph Wölfl, so I thought a post here might evoke some interest, comments, and possible recommendations.  The only other CD that I own of this composer is of Piano Sonatas, Op. 25 & 33 w/ Jon Nakamatsu on a modern piano (Hamburg Steinway Model D), which has received excellent reviews (e.g. ClassicsToday HERE & on Amazon HERE); a nice one disc introduction to this 'classical era' composer.

Other discs that peaked my interest are also shown below - would appreciate any thoughts on those possibilities - 

 

     

[Gurn Blanston]

Dave,
Earlier in this very thread, Gabriel and I had a brief discussion about Wölfl. I haven't yet gone back to refresh my memory of it, but I mentioned having only the Nakamatsu disk at that point, and he got me interested in Colladant. I have the Volume 2 that you have featured, but not the one with the harp yet. I am quite drawn to the quartets disk though, I'll have to check that one out. Thanks for pointing it out. For those of you who haven't heard Wölfl at all, his strength was the keyboard, and the Op 28 set by Colladant is a great intro to him. Very commendable.



----------------
Listening to:
Marcia Hadjimarkos - Hob 16:42 Sonata in D for Keyboard 1st mvmt - Allegro con expressione

[Lilas Pastia]

I see that Colladant's volume 2 neatly complements the Nakamatsu disc - no overlap. I really like the Nakamatsy. I didn't know there was more. Much more, from what I read here.

For those who can read French, this Wiki is much more complete than in its english version.

[SonicMan46]

I see that Colladant's volume 2 neatly complements the Nakamatsu disc - no overlap. I really like the Nakamatsy. I didn't know there was more. Much more, from what I read here.

For those who can read French, this Wiki is much more complete than in its english version.

Barak - thanks for that French Wiki link; the catalog of works is excellent (I just had reviewed the English version which was not as complete, as stated).  BTW - the page can be 'translated' which I've done before w/ some hiliarious results - but not too bad!

Gurn - I did of bunch of various searches but just could not find much on Wölfl - if you two like the combination of keyboard and harp, that disc is wonderful; the fortepiano being used sounds more like a blend of an earlier one & haprsichord and complements the harp just beautifully - nothing in the liner notes about the harp unfortunately, certainly one w/ pedals but not sure if a restored, reproduction, or a more modern instrument?  Dave 

[Gurn Blanston]

Barak - thanks for that French Wiki link; the catalog of works is excellent (I just had reviewed the English version which was not as complete, as stated).  BTW - the page can be 'translated' which I've done before w/ some hiliarious results - but not too bad!

Gurn - I did of bunch of various searches but just could not find much on Wölfl - if you two like the combination of keyboard and harp, that disc is wonderful; the fortepiano being used sounds more like a blend of an earlier one & haprsichord and complements the harp just beautifully - nothing in the liner notes about the harp unfortunately, certainly one w/ pedals but not sure if a restored, reproduction, or a more modern instrument?  Dave 

Well, I just went back and found that mention here:

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,11225.msg281136.html#msg281136

and truly, it was very brief; just long enough for me to find out about Colladant, and a few other disks to look into also (piano trios, for example).  I am guessing that I need that harp disk, Dave, it sounds interesting and represents an entire genre which I have totally ignored to date. Other major contributors include Spohr and Dussek, and no doubt many others. Beethoven even wrote some harp music; some of his early variation sets which are always played on keyboard now (like WoO 64 (? 65?) for example were originally for "clavier or harp"...

[Franco]

Scrolling down from the quote about the Wolfl recordings is a very good discussion of some things to appreciate in the Classical style.

Very good reading.

I am another of those people who enjoy the Classical style more than any other, with the exception of new music - but I listen to new music for completely different reasons, so I think I am solid ground claiming that the Classical period is the one I find myself listening to more than others.

I am fascinated by the formal challenges the composers set for themselves, and I love the restraint of the expression.  Romantic music often sounds over-the-top to me, and for me, less is definitely more.

I am going to save that link because the discussion is really that good.

As far as where to start a Classical period listening journey, I think the string quartet captures both the wit and subtle complexity which I think best exemplify the soul of the Classical style.

[Lilas Pastia]

The french Wiki article quotes reviews of a 'clash or the titans' piano contest that took place in 1799 between Beethoven and Wölfl. It seems to have been quite an event. According to reports, Beethoven excelled in improvisations and his playing was termed ' brilliant' . Woelfl had some amaziing technical feats to his credit (he seems to have possessed huge hands that enabled him to do unheard of pianistic effects, as well as being very charming ('insinuating') in expressive passages. Both men admired each other.

[SonicMan46]

The french Wiki article quotes reviews of a 'clash or the titans' piano contest that took place in 1799 between Beethoven and Wölfl. It seems to have been quite an event. According to reports, Beethoven excelled in improvisations and his playing was termed ' brilliant' . Woelfl had some amaziing technical feats to his credit (he seems to have possessed huge hands that enabled him to do unheard of pianistic effects, as well as being very charming ('insinuating') in expressive passages. Both men admired each other.

Barak - yes, I was reading about that event (discussed in some of the liner notes, too!) - Wölfl was over 6 ft tall (must have looked like a 'Muff & Jeff' couple together -  ); also, stated that he had a 13th hand span, which I assume is about an 'octave and a half or so' - also a 'bon vivant' - must have been quite attractive to the ladies?

Gurn - I looked back at your link - I was even involved!  But, only about 3 or so posts - hope that we get some more responses on these other works; the SQ disc looks attractive (I have that group w/ Albrectsberger SQs - and was impressed) - Dave 

[Gurn Blanston]

Scrolling down from the quote about the Wolfl recordings is a very good discussion of some things to appreciate in the Classical style.

Very good reading.

I am another of those people who enjoy the Classical style more than any other, with the exception of new music - but I listen to new music for completely different reasons, so I think I am solid ground claiming that the Classical period is the one I find myself listening to more than others.

I am fascinated by the formal challenges the composers set for themselves, and I love the restraint of the expression.  Romantic music often sounds over-the-top to me, and for me, less is definitely more.

I am going to save that link because the discussion is really that good.

As far as where to start a Classical period listening journey, I think the string quartet captures both the wit and subtle complexity which I think best exemplify the soul of the Classical style.

Franco,
Yes, those are the things that people love (or hate) about Classical music. Form, form form. Melody, rhythm, interesting harmony; but all in a package that sounds simple. If you were listening to what I am now, it is so simple that it can't possibly be entertaining, and yet the simplicity IS the entertainment. Paradoxical, but there it is.

Well, I agree that string quartets are the top of the mountain, so to speak, but these days I nearly invariably discover new composers through keyboard sonatas, if, in fact, they wrote any. Fortunately, most did. Always happy to move on to the quartet though.



----------------
Listening to:
Marcia Hadjimarkos - Hob 16 48 Sonata in C for Keyboard 1st mvmt - Andante con expressione

[Gurn Blanston]

The french Wiki article quotes reviews of a 'clash or the titans' piano contest that took place in 1799 between Beethoven and Wölfl. It seems to have been quite an event. According to reports, Beethoven excelled in improvisations and his playing was termed ' brilliant' . Woelfl had some amaziing technical feats to his credit (he seems to have possessed huge hands that enabled him to do unheard of pianistic effects, as well as being very charming ('insinuating') in expressive passages. Both men admired each other.

In fact, they could actually have been considered friends for the duration of Wölfl's stay in Vienna. Really an extraordinary occurrence in Beethoven's life at the time. Not that he didn't have friends, but not many of them were musicians, and even fewer were rivals of the keyboard. Wölfl must have been a heck of a fellow...



----------------
Listening to:
Derek Adlam - Clavichord - Hob 17 01 Capriccio in G for Keyboard

[Gurn Blanston]

Barak - yes, I was reading about that event (discussed in some of the liner notes, too!) - Wölfl was over 6 ft tall (must have looked like a 'Muff & Jeff' couple together -  ); also, stated that he had a 13th hand span, which I assume is about an 'octave and a half or so' - also a 'bon vivant' - must have been quite attractive to the ladies?

Gurn - I looked back at your link - I was even involved!  But, only about 3 or so posts - hope that we get some more responses on these other works; the SQ disc looks attractive (I have that group w/ Albrectsberger SQs - and was impressed) - Dave 

Dave,
Well, I thought that you had been, but couldn't remember precisely. Of course, your interests are far more diverse than mine, hard to keep up with them all.

You know, I edge ever closer to giving something by the Authentic Quartet a try. The first I ever heard of them was from a Mozart enthusiast on another forum whose taste I have found to be quite good over time, and he gave them such a scathing review that I have been timid about trying them out ever since. I can't remember which disk it was now, I should go back and look it up. Anyway, since then at least you and Gabriel have said nice tings about them, so I guess it's time to rethink that.



----------------
Listening to:
Derek Adlam - Clavichord - Hob 17 01 Capriccio in G for Keyboard

[Gurn Blanston]

Oh, I found that quote this AM on the Mozart Forum, and in fact it is the Wölfl quartets that he is speaking of:

First this:

Keep away from the "Authentic Quartet". Their instruments may be authentic, but they seem to think that this is enough and that playing off pitch must be part of the authenticity.

and then this followup:

I only know their recording of the Wölfl quartets which is hideous. It's always the same phenomenon: technically under-qualified string players get themselves original instruments and start recording pieces of minor composers that deserve to be rediscovered (Lickl, Zmeskall et al). But these recordings are so bad that these fine but neglected composers never have a chance. Franz Xaver Richter was luckier. He received this fabulous recording.

I don't think you can fault me for being tentative. It would be nice if someone could put the lie to this. Although I have been familiar with this guy for a few years and he has always been reasonable. 

[Gurn Blanston]

Wow, can it be 1000 posts here already? I want to thank every contributor for his/her support and info sharing. And the readers for reading, as far as that goes! Hope Year 2 on The Corner is as successful as Year 1 has been. 

[Florestan]

Wow, can it be 1000 posts here already? I want to thank every contributor for his/her support and info sharing.

You and all the other gentlemen are most welcome!

(And that's the thousandth post here )

[karlhenning]

Huzzah!

Oh, I found that quote this AM on the Mozart Lucchesi Forum

Emended . . . .