Gurn's Classical Corner

[Gurn Blanston]

What a superb set of references I find in here to help me understand what was going on in the Classical era.  A couple of hours rummaging in here will make me an expert in no time!  (...er...well, a couple of hours aside...)
Great thread Gurn.

Well, thanks John. We would love to have you join us when you feel like it. I know your tastes usually run to different eras, but maybe you will be inspired to give us a try.

[karlhenning]

Brahms tried to kill me last week

Hah!

[Antoine Marchand]

Brahms tried to kill me last week

"And you should use an image on the front cover of head with a gun! That is how you should imagine the music! I will send you my own photo to be used! You should also use a blue tailcoat, yellow trousers and top boots, it seems to me that you love color images". Johannes Brahms to the editor Fritz Simrock, 1875

[Gurn Blanston]

"And you should use an image on the front cover of head with a gun! That is how you should imagine the music! I will send you my own photo to be used! You should also use a blue tailcoat, yellow trousers and top boots, it seems to me that you love color images". Johannes Brahms to the editor Fritz Simrock, 1875

That's hilarious. Brahms had sarcasm to spare, all stored up for instant use. I admire that in a composer, even if he lived in the totally wrong time to actually be cool...

[mahler10th]

"And you should use an image on the front cover of head with a gun! That is how you should imagine the music! I will send you my own photo to be used! You should also use a blue tailcoat, yellow trousers and top boots, it seems to me that you love color images". Johannes Brahms to the editor Fritz Simrock, 1875

Well, I had no idea about that Antoine, thank you. 
I am listening to Chandos Anthems, Handel, by Kings College Choir - David Willcocks.
Hmm...
What is the context in which one should listen and be moved by religious pieces like this?  I don't know.  But today I went out and bought some Boccherini Symphonies, and I'll report back on that, which going by what I heard yesterday will be much more remarkable.

[Gurn Blanston]

Well, I had no idea about that Antoine, thank you. 
I am listening to Chandos Anthems, Handel, by Kings College Choir - David Willcocks.
Hmm...
What is the context in which one should listen and be moved by religious pieces like this?  I don't know.  But today I went out and bought some Boccherini Symphonies, and I'll report back on that, which going by what I heard yesterday will be much more remarkable.

Always a question that has bothered me, too, John. I am devoutly irreligious, so religious music as a concept is totally antithetical to me. However, my favorite composers did some of their best work in that format, so I have to reconcile all that baggage...   (I do manage though, and rather nicely too).

Yes, we are very fond of Boccherini here, do please let us know how that goes.



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Listening to:
Talich Quartet / Serri (Double Baß) - K 525 Serenade #13 in G 2nd mvmt - Romanze: Andante

[springrite]

Always a question that has bothered me, too, John. I am devoutly irreligious, so religious music as a concept is totally antithetical to me.

I am of the same orientation. But I have lots of religious work in my collection. Thankfully, I do not know any of the languages. So it's just music.

Wait, there are some in English, but one can hardly understand English when it is sung anyway, unless one is really paying attention...

[Gurn Blanston]

I am of the same orientation. But I have lots of religious work in my collection. Thankfully, I do not know any of the languages. So it's just music.

Wait, there are some in English, but one can hardly understand English when it is sung anyway, unless one is really paying attention...

Yes, there are small blessings concealed everywhere...

Unfortunately for me, I was born to be Catholic, and the texts sung in Latin are like a second language to me. I can still see Sister Mary Elephant marching a group of runny-nosed 8 year olds through the snow for Friday AM Mass with full choir... the music was great, the associations, not so much...



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Listening to:
Talich Quartet / Serri (Double Baß) - K 525 Serenade #13 in G 4th mvmt - Rondo: Allegro

[mahler10th]

While I am here, I have a word about Beethovens "Consecration of the House", which is perhaps my favourite Beethovian  fragment, written, I am assured, in the style of Handel.  The only recording of this I have is Goodman and the Hannover Band.  A Bassoon bobs up and down and in and out in the first section of the piece, representing the gathering crowds all looking and talking and admiring the new Theatre for which it was written.  It is just so perfectly pictured, and fortunately Goodmans is a superb, diamond clear recording.  That Bassoon is a perfect reflection of ther ogling masses who have come to see the building.

Have a wee listen to it yourself!  The bobbing and chatty bassoons are fantastic ... that 'amazing wee bit'....have to look that post up again...

[Lethevich]

Well, I don't know them by "#X" or either by Opus #, the only thing I know is the Deutsch numbers. That said, D 87 is among my very favorites even if you include the later ones. I will happily review the earlier ones this weekend and probably have others for this list, I just can't remember which is which right now.

Indeedie, there are few catalogues where opus numbers are more useless than with Schubert - I'll try to stick with the D's And thank you very much for any future comments on the SQs!

[Gurn Blanston]

Indeedie, there are few catalogues where opus numbers are more useless than with Schubert - I'll try to stick with the D's And thank you very much for any future comments on the SQs!

Quite so. The D #'s would be good if everyone would use them, but of course they don't. But when people ask about "Op. 100", I just give it one of these    and carry on. Who the hell knows what that might be?

I've been hip-deep in Haydn's operas all day, but I need a change of pace this evening. I know there are 2 or 3 that I especially like, it will only take hearing the first few bars to remember which they are.




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Listening to:
Hans-Ola Ericsson - Hob 19 29 Piece for Flötenuhr (arr for Organ) - Menuett

[Harry]

I am now playing Mozart Late Symphonies, the Nos. 32/34/35/36 played by th English Concert, directed by Trevor Pinnock.
Its the 9th cd from this box, and my final opinion is that in many ways, at least for me its preferable to say Christopher Hogwoods account, good as it may be. Pinnock has more grip on tempi and the phrasing is pin pointedly sharp, lines are clearly defined, and rigorously kept in harness. That doesn't mean that fantasy and creativity goes down the drain, far from it, but slackness is kept at bay, and that in my opinion is very important. Added the authentic performance and the more than excellent sound its a real winner. Many instances that bring joy to my ears is the introduction Allegro vivace from the 34th Symphony, jocosely, dance like rhythms, and such fine detail, especially in the strings. And than Haffner No 35, first movement, such grand evocations of the heart, with a delightful Menuetto-Trio. Linz is played with a vigor that has me rocking in my chair.


For the record, if I find the box from Hogwood for a good price, it will go into my collection. That means I have high esteem for Hogwood too.

[Gurn Blanston]

I am now playing Mozart Late Symphonies, the Nos. 32/34/35/36 played by th English Concert, directed by Trevor Pinnock.
Its the 9th cd from this box, and my final opinion is that in many ways, at least for me its preferable to say Christopher Hogwoods account, good as it may be. Pinnock has more grip on tempi and the phrasing is pin pointedly sharp, lines are clearly defined, and rigorously kept in harness. That doesn't mean that fantasy and creativity goes down the drain, far from it, but slackness is kept at bay, and that in my opinion is very important. Added the authentic performance and the more than excellent sound its a real winner. Many instances that bring joy to my ears is the introduction Allegro vivace from the 34th Symphony, jocosely, dance like rhythms, and such fine detail, especially in the strings. And than Haffner No 35, first movement, such grand evocations of the heart, with a delightful Menuetto-Trio. Linz is played with a vigor that has me rocking in my chair.


For the record, if I find the box from Hogwood for a good price, it will go into my collection. That means I have high esteem for Hogwood too.

That's a nice set, Harry. I have both of those, and it is hard to state exactly what my take is on the differences without giving a wrong impression. Like if I say the Pinnock is played and recorded so perfectly (mostly) that it doesn't leave as good impression an on me is not to say that I don't admire it, or that the Hogwood isn't well played and recorded. I guess the feeling I get from Hogwood is that I am listening to a real, rough and ready Mozart concert from back in the day. While from Pinnock I can hardly tell it is PI. It has the tenor of modernity to it. There, is that confusing enough?

[DavidW]

Also Pinnock is just really boring, the spirit of the music is just not there.  He has much more passion and drive in Bach than he does in Mozart.  I think he is at heart a baroque conductor, and should not have ventured into the classical era.

[Harry]

That's a nice set, Harry. I have both of those, and it is hard to state exactly what my take is on the differences without giving a wrong impression. Like if I say the Pinnock is played and recorded so perfectly (mostly) that it doesn't leave as good impression an on me is not to say that I don't admire it, or that the Hogwood isn't well played and recorded. I guess the feeling I get from Hogwood is that I am listening to a real, rough and ready Mozart concert from back in the day. While from Pinnock I can hardly tell it is PI. It has the tenor of modernity to it. There, is that confusing enough?

That is perfectly understandable, and more or less my opinion too. I guess Pinnock wins me over with his tight grip on the tempi, and the enormous amount of detail he produces. But as said I will eventually buy the Hogwood set too.

[Gurn Blanston]

Also Pinnock is just really boring, the spirit of the music is just not there.  He has much more passion and drive in Bach than he does in Mozart.  I think he is at heart a baroque conductor, and should not have ventured into the classical era.

Well, maybe that's it, although boring wasn't what came to mind with me, more like "just too perfect". can that really be such a cardinal sin? I think so...

That is perfectly understandable, and more or less my opinion too. I guess Pinnock wins me over with his tight grip on the tempi, and the enormous amount of detail he produces. But as said I will eventually buy the Hogwood set too.

Funny, you and I being on the opposite sides of this discussion than we usually are. I bought the Hogwood when it was nearly newly released and paid about $175 total for it, which, for 19 disks of this quality is not a bad amount. Since you usually outspend me 10:1 on disks, and this can now be had for about $100US, you give me a smile this AM. Spend the $$$, Harry, it isn't all that much and you will be delighted with the results. 

[Antoine Marchand]

I guess the feeling I get from Hogwood is that I am listening to a real, rough and ready Mozart concert from back in the day. While from Pinnock I can hardly tell it is PI. It has the tenor of modernity to it. There, is that confusing enough?

It's crystal clear for me. I don't have Pinnock in the Mozart symphonies; but I get the same "sensation" when I listen to his Sturm und Drang symphonies: Not boring at all, but too much refined, overworked.   

[Gurn Blanston]

It's crystal clear for me. I don't have Pinnock in the Mozart symphonies; but I get the same "sensation" when I listen to his Sturm und Drang symphonies: Not boring at all, but too much refined, overworked.

Yes, very refined. I think that hits it closer in feeling and accuracy than MY description did. One thing I have always delighted in, in a good PI performance is a certain je ne sais quoi... bite perhaps (really should ask Snipper, the adjective king!) and when it isn't there I really miss it. Might as well be listening to smooth, modern instruments. With all due respect to those who like that stuff, of course.

[SonicMan46]

Well, I'm w/ Harry on his impressions of the Pinnock set - owned & enjoy the performances; the argument sounds similar to the one often stated against the Emerson Quartet, i.e. they're just 'too perfect' to be considered worthy performances -    Well, I have quite a few discs of that quartet.  Curiously, in reading the Amazonian reviews of the Pinnock & Hogwood Mozart sets, the same 'likes & dislikes' are tossed back and forth!

Now, I'd actually like to acquire the Hogwood set also, mainly because of the 'extras' - Newbury Comics is selling the set for $80 on the Amazon Marketplace - I'll give this potential purchase some thought over the next few days - 

[Franco]

Yes, very refined. I think that hits it closer in feeling and accuracy than MY description did. One thing I have always delighted in, in a good PI performance is a certain je ne sais quoi... bite perhaps (really should ask Snipper, the adjective king!) and when it isn't there I really miss it. Might as well be listening to smooth, modern instruments. With all due respect to those who like that stuff, of course.

I have recently been revisiting Beethoven symphony sets and have re-listened to the ones I already owned, both modern instrument orchestras (Szell, Karajan, Bernstein, Bloomstedt) and the few PI recordings I have  (Gardiner's set and the Norrington 9th) and bought a couple of individual CDs of Jarvi and Dausgaard - interpretations which while using a modern instrument orchestra, granted a leaner meaner group, but employing unconventional tempo and articulation choices.

The upshot is that Gardiner sounded more conventional than Jarvi or Dausgaard and Szell more convincing than Karajan or Bernstein. 

I liked Norrington's 9th and will eventually get his complete set.  I also want to get Immerseel's set, but as far as I can tell it is oop and unavailable at this time.

I come away from this little exercise thinking that merely using period instruments does not imbue an otherwise conventional approach with new found interest.

Favorites so far are Jarvi and Szell, although from what I've read about Immerseel and Norrington, they may trump them all since what I am finding that I enjoy most in Beethoven symphony performances are quick tempos, dramatic dynamics, but not exaggerated, and wit instead of gravitas.