Gurn's Classical Corner

[Gurn Blanston]

I'm betting that if I try hard enough I can find a recording of Bruckner 8 with continuo.   

Good god!

I am guessing that there is insufficient documentation to sway the matter definitively one way or the other.  My perspective is necessarily anachronistic, but continuo on the great later Mozart symphonies feels counter-intuitive to me.

Do these gents play the first two Beethoven symphonies with continuo?  The Opus 55? ; )

Come to think of it, is there any reason to rule out continuo for any of the Beethoven symphonies? . . .

No, Karl, there actually is a reason that continuo hung on for about 25 years longer than it was needed for; no one thought to dump it when it was appropriate. You know, change in any form is not an overnight thing. Continuo had been around forever (so to speak) and the realization that it had become redundant was slow to dawn. It is very likely that Haydn dumped it early times, like 1760 or so, since there is never a single one of his manuscripts (symphonic) that has any figures or indications in it. Neither does the music room at Esterhazy have a harpsichord or a place to put one when an orchestra is playing. Finally, it is thought that Haydn led from the violin rather than the keyboard.

Not to lionize the man as a complete visionary though (even though he was in some ways), he wrote much of his non-symphonic early music as though the cello or bass viol was playing figured bass, and this sort of retarded his growth in that arena for a while.   

Still it was a long time before the players (moreso than the composers) realized that continuo was tits on a boar hog with sonata form music.

[Gabriel]

With some degree of astonishment, because nothing anticipated such a surprise, I found out yesterday that Naxos released a CD with the orchestral music contained in Joseph Martin Kraus' Aeneas i Cartago, a huge opera in one prologue and five acts, supposed to be one of the highest achievements of its author. Although the performance led by Patrick Gallois could be improved in some respects, there is some extremely good music in this CD. (Listeners fond of overtures will be particularly pleased, for two can be found here: one for the prologue, and one for the opera itself. And the introduction to act V is not far from the concept of an overture.

I've been an admirer of Kraus' music for some years, but I never supposed him to keep such a level in all compositions. For sure, there are works better than others (or ones that I like more than others, if you prefer), but they are never less than good, often very good, and many times excellent. This release makes me hope that Naxos (or other label) could be bold enough to provide a complete recording of this opera.

The "Gurnian period" is recovering a lost treasure!

[Gurn Blanston]

With some degree of astonishment, because nothing anticipated such a surprise, I found out yesterday that Naxos released a CD with the orchestral music contained in Joseph Martin Kraus' Aeneas i Cartago, a huge opera in one prologue and five acts, supposed to be one of the highest achievements of its author. Although the performance led by Patrick Gallois could be improved in some respects, there is some extremely good music in this CD. (Listeners fond of overtures will be particularly pleased, for two can be found here: one for the prologue, and one for the opera itself. And the introduction to act V is not far from the concept of an overture.

I've been an admirer of Kraus' music for some years, but I never supposed him to keep such a level in all compositions. For sure, there are works better than others (or ones that I like more than others, if you prefer), but they are never less than good, often very good, and many times excellent. This release makes me hope that Naxos (or other label) could be bold enough to provide a complete recording of this opera.

The "Gurnian period" is recovering a lost treasure!

Well, that IS a big surprise, Gabriel. I have read about this work, but clearly never heard any of it. Naxos have been heading more and more towards big stuff lately. I picked up Haydn's "Il Ritorno di Tobia" a couple of months ago, for example. A gigantic oratorio that he composed <>1775 for the Viennese society of composers. A 3 disk set, and splendid at that. Just the sort of thing you wouldn't have picked Naxos to record. So they could do Kraus' entire opera if they wanted, I expect. Hope they do.

Speaking of big works, has anyone heard the other oratorio (his very first) of Haydn, "Applausus", which is recently out on Capriccio? It is so far unavailable here, but it has been available at some time in Europe, just not right now, it seems. Curious for any feedback.




----------------
Listening to:
Cappella Coloniensis / A. Spering / VokalEnsemble Köln - Hob 24a 04 Cantata in A "Qual dubbio ormai" pt 2 - Aria "se ogni giorno"

[Gabriel]

Speaking of big works, has anyone heard the other oratorio (his very first) of Haydn, "Applausus", which is recently out on Capriccio? It is so far unavailable here, but it has been available at some time in Europe, just not right now, it seems. Curious for any feedback.

I haven't seen the Capriccio release, but I remember Opus 111 had one recording of it... that I never bought.

By the way, Gurn, I bought a recent Hungaroton release, Krommer's 3 string quartets op. 7 played by the Authentic Quartet. Even written in mid-classical style (like late Mozart and Haydn), you can discover Krommerian "spice" inside (e.g., sparkling burlesque motives treated as a kaleidoscope in the first quartet). Not essential, but classical string quartet fans will be very grateful. Like me.

[SonicMan46]

By the way, Gurn, I bought a recent Hungaroton release, Krommer's 3 string quartets op. 7 played by the Authentic Quartet. ..........................

Gabriel - I have a number of discs w/ the Authentic Quartet, which I've enjoyed and discussed in previous posts - owned a lot of Krommer, but the only single disc of SQs is shown below w/ the Marcolini Quartett on period instruments - recording includes 3 SQs from Op. 19, 74, and 103, so much to be appreciated in this composer - Dave 

[Gurn Blanston]

I haven't seen the Capriccio release, but I remember Opus 111 had one recording of it... that I never bought.

Ah yes, I think that's the one that is selling for $100+ right now. Well, I will find out about the other one soon enough since Amazon is supposed to let me know that they have it, next week, I hope.

By the way, Gurn, I bought a recent Hungaroton release, Krommer's 3 string quartets op. 7 played by the Authentic Quartet. Even written in mid-classical style (like late Mozart and Haydn), you can discover Krommerian "spice" inside (e.g., sparkling burlesque motives treated as a kaleidoscope in the first quartet). Not essential, but classical string quartet fans will be very grateful. Like me.

Oh, I know I would like that disk, your saying so just spurs me more towards it.  I wrote here earlier (while you were on hiatus) about reading really bad review of the Authentic Quartet, which has put me off badly from buying anything by them. I think I am past that now though...



----------------
Listening to:
La Petite Bande \ Kuijken - Hob 01 101 Symphony in D 1st mvmt - Adagio - Presto

[Gabriel]

Gabriel - I have a number of discs w/ the Authentic Quartet, which I've enjoyed and discussed in previous posts - owned a lot of Krommer, but the only single disc of SQs is shown below w/ the Marcolini Quartett on period instruments - recording includes 3 SQs from Op. 19, 74, and 103, so much to be appreciated in this composer - Dave 

That CD is particularly interesting because it shows the evolution of Krommer's style in different moments. What I really appreciate in Krommer was that he was able to develop an unique voice without shattering classical balance. He keeps it formally, but his expression has something weird, even ironic. He got the sense of joke from Haydn, but it is the character of the joke that changes. In this op. 7, an early work, you can already see it; curiously, it is much less evident in his orchestral works.

Oh, I know I would like that disk, your saying so just spurs me more towards it.  I wrote here earlier (while you were on hiatus) about reading really bad review of the Authentic Quartet, which has put me off badly from buying anything by them. I think I am past that now though...

They are not the best string quartet available, but they must be thanked for their courage to record this forgotten repertoire. I must point out that I really enjoy this CD. If they decide to continue a Krommer series, they will do a great service to music.

[Gabriel]

I must write a couple of lines about Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia (1772-1806), whose works have been seldom commented in GMG. Incredibly beautiful music that has been incredibly ignored by most specialists and amateurs during two centuries.

Perhaps Prince Louis Ferdinand didn't concentrate all his efforts to composition, his works being relatively scarce, but I have purchased the three CDs of his chamber music recorded by the Trio Parnassus, and they show nothing less than music at the highest level of that time - so standing beside the best chamber music of Beethoven, Hummel, Rejcha, Spohr or Schubert. I don't know what is more worthy of praise in his works: the beautiful melodic ideas, the impressive harmonic command, or the beauty of the sound of the ensemble, including piano parts that are among the most beautiful of that time. Perhaps his interest in counterpoint was not the one shown by Beethoven, Rejcha or Cherubini, but on the other hand there are modulations that sound like Schumann or Chopin. These chamber works are really a treasure, and in my opinion they should be known and enjoyed by all people interested in the music of late classicism.

Changing briefly the subject towards another composer, I said some time ago I would write some lines on the wind quintets of Franz Danzi, as I had bought the set of three CDs released by BIS some years ago. I was not particularly impressed, these works seeming to me clearly less interesting than the quintets written by Rejcha.

[SonicMan46]

I must write a couple of lines about Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia (1772-1806), whose works have been seldom commented in GMG. Incredibly beautiful music that has been incredibly ignored by most specialists and amateurs during two centuries.......................

Gabriel - I own and enjoy Vol.2 in that MDG series - perhaps I should add some more to my 'wish list' after your discussion; his short listing of about a dozen opus numbers can be found HERE - his too short life ended in a battle against the French during the Napoleonic Wars - a deeply felt lost to the Prussian Court; he was a nephew of Frederick the Great - 

[SonicMan46]

Wolfie's Symphonies w/ Hogwood - before going to bed tonight, I'll listen to the first disc in this 19-CD box set which just arrived yesterday - will take a while and I plan to do some direct comparisons w/ my Pinnock box (any recommendations as to which works may be the best to compare?) - will periodically report back to this and/or the listening thread - 

[Sorin Eushayson]

Wolfie's Symphonies w/ Hogwood - before going to bed tonight, I'll listen to the first disc in this 19-CD box set which just arrived yesterday - will take a while and I plan to do some direct comparisons w/ my Pinnock box (any recommendations as to which works may be the best to compare?) - will periodically report back to this and/or the listening thread - 

Try comparing No.'s 20 & 25, which I thought Hogwood was rather lax about as opposed to Pinnock, who shines.  Not sure there's a whole lot of difference between the two, though my impression over all favoured Pinnock's work.  It's pretty hard to mess up these glorious and well-honed symphonies.

[Gabriel]

Gabriel - I own and enjoy Vol.2 in that MDG series - perhaps I should add some more to my 'wish list' after your discussion; his short listing of about a dozen opus numbers can be found HERE - his too short life ended in a battle against the French during the Napoleonic Wars - a deeply felt lost to the Prussian Court; he was a nephew of Frederick the Great - 

Dave, there are three volumes and each of them is outstanding. The denomination for volume three is remarkable, because although it is announced as "piano trios", there are two quartets and one quintet! But do not miss them: if you like chamber works and music from the late classicism, this is essential listening.

[SonicMan46]

Just received a BRO bargain for $6 and taking a chance - just listening tonight but worth a mention here:

Danzi, Margarethe (1768-1800) - Fortepiano & Violin Sonatas w/ Antoinette Lohmann & Vaughan Schlepp; she was the wife of Franz Danzi, but died tragically early at the age of 32 yrs (likely from tuberculosis, although the liner notes state a lung ailment).  Her fame was mainly as an opera singer (and seemed to be quite well respected and famous in a wide variety of roles).  She (and her brother) lived w/ Leopold Mozart from 1782-84, and apparently received a well-rounded education, which obviously would have involved musical and composition instruction.

The booklet liner notes are about two dozen pages in English w/ detailed discussion of her family (father was Theobald Marchand) and many inter-relationships w/ others of the times, including Wolfgang & his sister, the Webers, the Danzis, etc.   These performances are on period instruments, and are quite pleasant - nothing profound or innovative, i.e. she learned her 'classical' composing quite well from Wolfie's Papa (who she affectionately called) - these 3 sonatas on the recording were published after her death and the exact time of their composing is uncertain.  Recording is from 2005 and is done well.

Does this disc add to one's collection of similar works of the time - not sure - certainly not for the superior quality of the works; however, a woman composing at that time, wife for Franz Danzi, trained my Leopold Mozart, and performed on period instruments - well, for the 'completist' and at the asking price, maybe a consideration? 

[Franco]

She (and her brother) lived w/ Leopold Mozart from 1782-84, and apparently received a well-rounded education, which obviously would have involved musical and composition instruction.

Questionable theory, since as we all know there is no evidence that Leopold Mozart ever studied at a accredited music school, or was qualified to serve as a music instructor for anyone, including his son, much less, complete strangers who happened to be living in his home.

[kishnevi]

Questionable theory, since as we all know there is no evidence that Leopold Mozart ever studied at a accredited music school, or was qualified to serve as a music instructor for anyone, including his son, much less, complete strangers who happened to be living in his home.

[Gurn Blanston]

Don't be fooled; Franco is making an inside joke at the expense of a former member here, who sincerely believed it. Reminds me of a Firesign Theater sketch: "Everything You Know is Wrong".   

[DavidW]

I'm beginning to think that Newman wasn't even a person and merely a meme!

[kishnevi]

Don't be fooled; Franco is making an inside joke at the expense of a former member here, who sincerely believed it. Reminds me of a Firesign Theater sketch: "Everything You Know is Wrong".   

It did sound over the top...but I figured that Papa Mozart deserves his own picture, for a change.

More seriously, are there any recordings of Leopold's music you would recommend?

[SonicMan46]

More seriously, are there any recordings of Leopold's music you would recommend?

Well, I guess if one owns enough of Wolfie's early works, such as the symphonies, there likely is some of Leopold's efforts in the compositions - 

But more seriously, there are quite a few discs listed on Amazon HERE of Leopold Mozart; actually, I've had my 'eye' on that Chandos Bamert CD for a while, just waiting for some positive comments from others, I guess - 

[Sorin Eushayson]

I tried some of Leopold's music a while back.  It came across as really programmatic in a nauseating, "Disney" sort of way.  I doubt I'll ever return to his music because of it.