Gurn's Classical Corner

[Gurn Blanston]

Ah, very good, Dave. Pleased for you that you were finally able to get that at a relatively reasonable price. I am curious, after you have put in some solid listening time with it, whether you feel it is the top cycle, or better in some and not in others. Now I have Bilson, Immerseel and Sofronitzky in complete cycles, and about half a cycle of Levin and a host of singles. With more choices on hand, I find it much harder to decide what I prefer. I rather liked it better when I had just one each...



PS - 62 Beethoven's 9ths don't count in that category though. Special exemption!

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Now playing:
Chamber Orchestra of Europe/Harnoncourt - Beethoven Symphony #9 in d Op 125 4th mvmt - Presto - Allegro assai - Alla marcia - Allegro ma non tanto

[SonicMan46]

Ah, very good, Dave. Pleased for you that you were finally able to get that at a relatively reasonable price. I am curious, after you have put in some solid listening time with it, whether you feel it is the top cycle, or better in some and not in others. Now I have Bilson, Immerseel and Sofronitzky in complete cycles, and about half a cycle of Levin and a host of singles. With more choices on hand, I find it much harder to decide what I prefer. I rather liked it better when I had just one each...

Hi Gurn - you've got me TRUMPED on the number of PI recordings of these works, so I may not be of much help; I do have 3 'complete' recordings, but 2 are on modern pianos (i.e. Anda & Schiff), so my only other experience w/ PI is Bilson & Gardiner.

Today, I listened to the first 4 discs of the Sofronitzki performances and a couple discs of Bilson - my major complaint about Bilson was his sound, i.e. just not much 'up front' to hear well and drowned out by the orchestra - I still feel the same, although I must say w/ the volume up and w/ Bilson playing alone, the sound is fine; plus, the orchestras are different - Gardiner is much more refined (not necessarily good) and the 'Early Instruments Ensemble of the Warsaw Chamber Opera' play w/ a lot of gusto w/ some roughness (not necessarily bad).

In the end, I believe that Viviana's set will be preferred for me vs. Bilson - I just like the effort put into this series and love the idea of her performing on a fortepiano built by her husband based on a piano of the times of Mozart and one of the latter's favorite - just so historically appropriate.  Now, if you ask me to recommend one of these two PI sets, I would go for Sofronitzki, but I'm such a 'history buff' - seems to ALL come together w/ this offering.

Now concerning the other PI performances I have no experience or comment - but if you seem to think Bilson is one of your favorites from the many that you own, then you probably should give Viviana's box a try (of course, if the price is right!) -    Dave

[Elgarian]

Here's a corner of GMG where for some inexplicable reason I've never posted before! No matter - I thought I'd join in Dave's Sofronitzki celebrations, since Viviana's box of goodies is one of the most entirely smashing purchases I've made in the last couple of years. Trouble is, I arrived at my position of besotted-ness from nowhere; that is, I bought  the set at a time earlier this year when I'd had very little exposure to Mozart's PCs (or anyone else's), primarily because I don't much like the sound of the modern piano. So there were two things going on at the same time - the discovery that I loved the sound of the fortepiano, and the discovery that I was capable of loving Mozart's PCs. A complicated situation, in which it was hard to sort one from the other, and still is to some degree. As I think DavidW rightly pointed out at the time, it made my advocacy of Viviana's set seem a bit shaky, from the point of view of recommending it to others.

I have 4 sets of Mozart PCs:
Annerose Schmidt with Kurt Masur/Dresden Philharmonic [Modern]
Alfred Brendel with Neville Marriner/Academy of St Martin in the Fiekds [Modern]
Jos Van Immerseel with Anima Eterna [Period]
Viviana Sofronitzki with Tadeusz Karolak/Musicae Antiquae Collegium Varsoviense [Period]

As my ability to enjoy the Mozart PCs grew, so did my tolerance for the modern piano; and I found all sorts to enjoy in the Schmidt and Brendel sets. At the time I was troubled by what I felt was a certain sameness in Brendel's 'touch' - a silky smoothness that made everything sound effortless and well-oiled, but which often seemed to miss some of the fun (I do really mean fun) that I felt was almost always trying to burst through in many of the PCs. I still feel that sameness, but I won't knock Alfred - I had his set with me in hospital for a week when I was at rock bottom, and he kept me sane during the sleepless nights. He persuaded me that no 13 (which everyone seems to think is one of the least interesting PCs) could offer a very lovely and heartwarming experience, even despite Marriner's rather slushy orchestral approach.

Annerose Schmidt surprised me at the time, and can still surprise me, by finding nuances in the music that others miss. Less immediately attractive than Brendel (her fingers seem to patter on the keys instead of gliding over them), she nevertheless seems to be able to ... how to describe it? ... change the musical direction more effectively and more sensitively. She can find momentary shifts of humour that others seem to miss. Of course I've no idea whether these shifts are implied in the score, but they sure sound like Mozart to me. I gave a detailed description of one of these moments, from the 25th (K503), in the HIP Mozart thread:

You know the first few minutes of the third movement? The best test I could think of was the degree to which I find myself smiling as that jaunty, cheeky tune is first introduced by the orchestra,  then followed by the rippling piano. With Sofronitzki I'm smiling in little fits and starts; with Schmidt, amazingly, I'm smiling non-stop, except for a bar or two where she discovers a reason for sober contemplation, then off we go again. But with Brendel, oh dear, I don't smile at all.

(For the rest of that post see #295, here:
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,232.280.html)

Sofronitzki, though, creates a whole new Mozartian soundscape - but it sounds right, to me. It's not polite. Her accompanying players aren't polite either - in fact they're downright rough at times (as Dave points out above). But it's the right kind of roughness - it's Ruskin's kind of roughness, when he says 'the demand for perfection is always a sign of a misunderstanding of the ends of art'; it's Bob Dylan's kind of roughness, risky, out on an edge, driven by the determination that this thing here and now is going to be alive, whatever else it may be. With Sofronitzki playing, I can close my eyes and believe that if it were Mozart himself playing, it might sound very like this, exuberant, chuckling, and above all, vital.

The completist in me required that I buy the Immerseel set, so I did, later. I feel a huge debt of gratitude to Immerseel for his Beethoven symphonies, but I've never warmed to these Mozart PCs. Yes, it's a fortepiano, and it sounds fine, but I don't hear much Amadean cheekiness in these versions; they are (as I expected from the comments of others) a bit too polite. I don't listen to them much. There are some CDs in the set I haven't played at all, because inevitably, as my hand reaches for the Immerseel box, it often finds itself picking up Viviana's instead.

[SonicMan46]

Hello Elgarian - thanks for the previous 'extensive' post and a confirmation of my feelings about the Viviana performances; also, I enjoyed your posts in the other thread linked - great input!

I have much more listening to do w/ these works and will again do some comparison w/ the Bilson discs; sounds like your Immerseel experience ranks him below those of Sofrontzki, so together I think we've provided Gurn some more comparative comments. 

[Elgarian]

I've just been listening to Sofronitzki's  recording of the 25th - haven't listened to it for a while. My god, how I love this music. How I love the sheer sound of this recording. I've been soaking in Wagner and Sibelius for weeks, so expected a bit of struggle getting back into the Mozart frame, but within minutes the first movement had me punching the air with a big grin on my face. If ever there were an example of the right performers finding the right listener, this is it. This/she/they are delivering my ideal Mozart, controlled when it needs control; punchy when it needs to be punchy; delicate to the point of tearfulness (all great art is delicate, says Ruskin, and he could be describing this); and always simmering, bubbling with life, always hinting at the feeling that something is on the verge of bursting through.

Listening to this stuff can be almost painful: like having something just so damned perfect passing before your eyes, just out of reach. You just have to watch it as it flies.

[Gurn Blanston]

Well, I've been a bit reluctant to post anything lately, not knowing what the database had in store, but now I'll take a stab at a composer that I have been listening to quite a bit lately.

Gaetano Donizetti (1797 - 1848)



If I had known his name at all, it was as "that opera guy". But I ran across these disks and looked at his b & d dates, and know the performers, so I figured what the heck. Glad I did. Despite the fact that Grove's calls his quartets 'study exercises', I must say that I found them very interesting and entertaining. If you are familiar with Cherubini's quartets and like them, you will be comfortable with these. Donizetti easily handles 4 voices and uses some nice harmonic motives that make these sound rather advanced for 1819 or so when the bulk of them were composed. And unlike many other composers at the time, he wasn't writing tiny violin concerti for the 1st violin, he writes in a late Haydnesque fashion.

If you run across one of these disks, you might be interested to give it a try. I'm pleased that I
did!




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Now playing:
The Revolutionary Drawing Room - Donizetti Quartet #18 in e for Strings 2nd mvmt - Adagio

[SonicMan46]

Well, I've been a bit reluctant to post anything lately, not knowing what the database had in store, but now I'll take a stab at a composer that I have been listening to quite a bit lately.

Gaetano Donizetti (1797 - 1848) - String Quartets

Hello Gurn - I've had my eyes on those SQs for a while, but there were just TOO MANY - know if I bought one that I'd then want more; and if CPO boxes these up, then their habit is to keep each in its own jewel box, thus not a space saver - but still in the back of my mind!

BTW - I do have 2 sets of the Cherubini SQs and enjoy - Dave 

[Gurn Blanston]

Hello Gurn - I've had my eyes on those SQs for a while, but there were just TOO MANY - know if I bought one that I'd then want more; and if CPO boxes these up, then their habit is to keep each in its own jewel box, thus not a space saver - but still in the back of my mind!

BTW - I do have 2 sets of the Cherubini SQs and enjoy - Dave 

Dave,
Yeah, there are 2 more than these (1 - 3 & 4 - 6). Grove says 19 in all, but I think one of them is this Introduzione that I'm listening to right now. So 6 boxes, yes, there's some more shelf space eaten up! I would get just 1 of them and try 'em out. Might I recommend the last? #18 is especially nice.



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Now playing:
The Revolutionary Drawing Room - Donizetti Introduzione for String Quartet - Larghetto affettuoso

[SonicMan46]

Devienne, Francois (1759-1803) - Oboe Sonatas w/ Glaetzner on oboe, Schornsheim on fortepiano, and Pank on cello - my 3rd disc of this Parisian composer/performer/professor - if interested, checkout my 'non-visited' thread HERE started a year ago - 

[Gurn Blanston]

Devienne, Francois (1759-1803) - Oboe Sonatas w/ Glaetzner on oboe, Schornsheim on fortepiano, and Pank on cello - my 3rd disc of this Parisian composer/performer/professor - if interested, checkout my 'non-visited' thread HERE started a year ago - 

Dave, I see that you are trying to leverage your Devienne post in the Corner too!    It's a good post and he's a very good composer (if more narrowly focused than some), I hope this generates some interest. I'm not going to redo MY post though, we'll see if he takes on a life of his own!



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Now playing:
The Revolutionary Drawing Room - Donizetti Quartet #16 in b for Strings 1st mvmt - Allegro

[assadourian]

I have bought this CD
http://www.amazon.fr/Concertos-Johann-Christoph-Friedrich-Bach/dp/B00318EDL0/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1287568576&sr=1-1
Very outstanding and bautiful music!!
JCF is less known than CPE ,JC and WF, but here with these 2 symphonies of 1791-1792 and the
concerto grosso that in fact is a very developped concerto for piano and large orchestra (1792)
we have works of the stature of HAYDN AND MOZART......really!

[Gurn Blanston]

Assadourian,

Looks nice! I have this disk by him, all chamber music as you can see:



Being such a fan of the Freiburg Baroque, I will become my goal to get this. Thanks for bringing it up. I concur with your assessment, he was quite talented. It didn't gain him fame and fortune, but nonetheless.



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Now playing:
Kuijken SQ & Ryo Terakado - K 515 Quintet in C for Strings 3rd mvmt - Andante

[SonicMan46]

Just left a post in the 'listening thread' part of which is posted below - Franz Danzi - I own a lot of his 'windy music' which is just wonderful, but an interesting disc below of string duos w/ an ARG review - quite pleasant - 

Danzi, Franz (1763-1826) - Duos for Viola & Cello w/ Posvanecz & Mate (cello) - recommended in the American Record Guide a few months ago (see attached screen capture) - these are wonderful performances w/ well recorded sound; deep mellow sounds coming from these 'lower' strings - enjoyable - 

 

[assadourian]

If you like Danzi ,i recommand this CD with his only concerto for piano (around 1800) very beautiful
music !!!!!
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51PCDNOCchL._SL500_AA300_.jpg
And his symphonies
http://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/images/B003VY8PT0/ref=dp_image_0?ie=UTF8&n=301062&s=music

2 are earlier (1790' ) with mannheimer style , the following 2 (1800') are more mozartians , the 2 last
(my preferred ) 1818 , are more haydnesque but "romanticized" ( they have some similitudes with
the 8° of Beethoven).
The concerto is delightfull , he composed it for his "niece", who was an excellent pianist: there is
full wind in the orchestration and the piano is in an "fluid" virtuosity as i love .

[Leon]

Some really interesting things being posted - especially the JCF Bach sonatas & trios, and some names new to me, Danzi, Devienne - lots to investigate.

This morning I'm dipping in a famlilar pool, Haydn string quartets, Quatuor Mosaiques, Op. 33.

It will take all the will power I can muster to avoid blowing my CD budget to smithereens reading this forum!

[DavidW]

After having a blast listening to Haydn's 49th, I have to ask what are your favorite storm and stress works everyone?

[mc ukrneal]

Some really interesting things being posted - especially the JCF Bach sonatas & trios, and some names new to me, Danzi, Devienne - lots to investigate.

This morning I'm dipping in a famlilar pool, Haydn string quartets, Quatuor Mosaiques, Op. 33.

It will take all the will power I can muster to avoid blowing my CD budget to smithereens reading this forum!

Too late!   

I had seen those Danzi symphonies and put them on my wishlist. They sound great from the little bits I heard too.

EDIT: Come to think of it, there is some of his work in this (I must come back to this again):

[DavidW]

Danzi wrote a decent bassoon concerto or two.  Used to have a recording.

[SonicMan46]

Looks nice! I have this disk by him, all chamber music as you can see:

 

Being such a fan of the Freiburg Baroque, I will become my goal to get this. Thanks for bringing it up. I concur with your assessment, he was quite talented. It didn't gain him fame and fortune, but nonetheless.

I own just one disc by this Papa Bach son, i.e. the one shown by Gurn; however, the one recommended (pic inserted above) w/ Schornsheim was highly recommended in the Sept-Oct issue of the American Record Guide, and is on my wishlist at the moment - 

[Gurn Blanston]

Too late!   

I had seen those Danzi symphonies and put them on my wishlist. They sound great from the little bits I heard too.

EDIT: Come to think of it, there is some of his work in this (I must come back to this again):

Neal,
That's a great box set there. It was my discovery of the year the year it came out (2005?) and I recommend it to anyone interested in nice, interesting, Classical Era music.