Gurn's Classical Corner

[SonicMan46]

Mozart, WA - Piano Sonatas w/ Alexei Lubimov on fortepiano; listening to the last disc of PS 15-18 - coming up next is Ronald Brautigam playing the same pieces on his fortepiano just for comparison - 


 

Above is a post that I just left in the 'listening thread' - now own two sets of Wolfie's Piano Sonatas on fortepiano and just wanted to do a little comparison - using the last disc of each set which contains the same works.

Concerning the instruments, Lubimov is using one by Christopher Clarke from 1986 based on an original by Anton Walter, around c. 1795; Brautigam is playing on a fortepiano by Paul McNulty made in Amsterdam in 1992, after an Anton Walter, c. 1795 - so both on these instruments were modeled on ones by the same maker at virtually the same time; below is a pic of a reconstructed McNulty fortepiano after one by Walter, 1792 (BTW, listed at 34,500 euros on his website!).

Recording locations and dates for Lubimov were 1990 in the Theatre de Semur-en Auxois; while for Brautigam, 1996 at Lama Church, Sweden - of course, the engineering, recordings positions, miking, etc. are factors difficult to gleam from the liner notes.  So, different performers and likely approaches to interpreting these works, different locales and recording engineering, and probably fairly similar instruments.

Well, I liked both of these recordings - Lubimov seemed more closely miked to me (which is fine to my ears) and maybe the surroundings?  His playing was somewhat lighter on the keys w/ more a staccato articulation for me, and a more rapid decay of the sound; whearas, Brautigam seemed a little more distant (like being in an auditorium but up front) and had a more legato interaction on the keys (believe that these instruments have knee pedals, so could that make a difference - just wondering?); also, his instrument seemed to have a more robust tone despite their reconstructions from fortepianos by the same maker about the same time, i.e. 1790s.

Bottom line for me is that I'll be keeping both sets - there is a difference but both remain pleasant experiences for me - 

[Opus106]

A new series from Supraphon: Music From 18th Century Prague

[Gurn Blanston]

A new series from Supraphon: Music From 18th Century Prague

Navneeth, thanks for that link! A couple of these to start off with, I think:



Both look very interesting indeed. Quite fond of Bohemian music, I need to jump at a chance to hear some a bit earlier than anything else I've heard.

[Brian]

There is a new Naxos disc this month of three symphonies by Johann Christoph Friedrich Bach, with the Leipzig Chamber Orchestra and Morten Schuldt-Jensen. I've just listened to the Symphony in C, and it is absolutely fantastic - one of the very best "obscure classical" symphonies I've heard. The undoubted highlight is an episode in the finale where J.C.F. Bach throws in a truly bizarre passage of tritone-dominated folk music. The Leipzig band and Schuldt-Jensen have decided that maybe this was an indication that another band was playing in the next room over!, and the result is a bit of musical humor that (I dare say) would equal anything by Haydn. It's fantastic! 

[Gurn Blanston]

Thanks for that info, Brian. I've enjoyed the 2 or 3 disks I have of JCF Bach, and know I will enjoy this one, too. That's pretty droll, I can see it now; "you, Piss Boy, go see what those dratted musicians are about"  "Yes Sire, shall I leave the bucket?".   

[Brian]

Thanks for that info, Brian. I've enjoyed the 2 or 3 disks I have of JCF Bach, and know I will enjoy this one, too. That's pretty droll, I can see it now; "you, Piss Boy, go see what those dratted musicians are about"  "Yes Sire, shall I leave the bucket?".   

Sadly on re-reading the liner notes I had to edit that post.  It seems actually there was a peasant band outside and the windows were always open, so JCF decided to thrown in a passage mimicking (or mocking) the bumpkins outside the concert room.

Still funny!

[SonicMan46]

Sadly on re-reading the liner notes I had to edit that post.  It seems actually there was a peasant band outside and the windows were always open, so JCF decided to thrown in a passage mimicking (or mocking) the bumpkins outside the concert room.

JCF Bach (1732-1795) - must explore this 'younger' Papa Bach son - I just have one disc dedicated solely to him, and another kind of 'Bach Sons Collection'!  Now in reviewing the 'short' Wiki Article HERE, the guy wrote a tremendous amount of music! 

 

[SonicMan46]

Cambini, Giuseppe Maria (1746-1825) - Italian composer and violinist who arrived in Paris around 1770, and composed prolifically over the next 30 years and in all genres.  A short but concise biography is found HERE, and claims that he wrote over 700 compositions! 

Most of these works were instumental and included (according to the link above) 149 String Quartets, 114 String Quintets, over 100 Trios for various instuments, 9 Symphonies, and obviously much more!

I just acquired my first recording of this composer, i.e. Flute Trios on the Tactus label; he was brought to my attention by a review in the November-December issue of Fanfare which recommended a disc of his String Quintets - would be curious if others know this composer, who virtually spanned the lives of Mozart & Beethoven.  Not much seems available on Amazon, and not sure 'how much' of his works survive, but likely many are unrecorded?

[Gurn Blanston]

Well, can't miss having heard of Cambini if you are a Mozartian. Grove's mention of that tale is this;

Quote: New Grove Dictionary - Entry Cambini
Cambini's name is best known today through a brief encounter with Mozart, who blamed him, with only circumstantial evidence, for Legros' cancellation of the performance of his Symphonie concertante (the lost k297b) at the Concert Spirituel. The envy and intrigue that Mozart suspected is not reported elsewhere, and Gluck knew Cambini's personal reputation well enough to recommend him as an honest man.

I have also read a rather extended account of how he had some sort of assembly line set up to handle his composition of Sinfonias Concertante (of which 82 are extant). Grove doesn't mention it, but I thought it was quite interesting. I'll dig around and see if I can find the source again. Given the quantities of chamber music he is credited with, I wouldn't be surprised if he carried over some of those techniques to string quartets. In any case, they weren't part of the creative aspect, they had to do with copyists. He wrote all that music without personally touching pen to paper, is what I gathered.

I don't have any CD's of him, thanks for the tips, Dave. Have to check him out.

[SonicMan46]

Well, can't miss having heard of Cambini if you are a Mozartian. Grove's mention of that tale is this;

I have also read a rather extended account of how he had some sort of assembly line set up to handle his composition of Sinfonias Concertante (of which 82 are extant). Grove doesn't mention it, but I thought it was quite interesting. I'll dig around and see if I can find the source again. Given the quantities of chamber music he is credited with, I wouldn't be surprised if he carried over some of those techniques to string quartets. In any case, they weren't part of the creative aspect, they had to do with copyists. He wrote all that music without personally touching pen to paper, is what I gathered.

I don't have any CD's of him, thanks for the tips, Dave. Have to check him out.

Gurn - re-listened to the Flute Trios this afternoon; marvelous disc and quite well done composing making one want to hear more of Cambini's chamber works - 

By chance, I checked out BRO and there was one recording for $8 - per chance, it was the String Quintet disc that had just been recommended by Jerry Dubins in the Nov-Dec 2010 issue of Fanfare - the review is attached - take a look, Jerry screwed up Cambini's dates having him being born before Haydn!  Interestingly, the same dates are listed on BRO - there is some dispute of his dates but the ones given in my previous post (and in the link) are likely much more correct.  But Dubins really enjoyed the recording and I expect the same - Dave 

[Gurn Blanston]

Dave,
Well, apparently the source for vital statistics is this 'Fetis' character who is unreliable. Here is the exact entry from Grove's:

(b Livorno, ?13 Feb 1746; d ?Paris, 1825). Italian composer and violinist. His birthdate was supplied by Fétis, who mistakenly gave Cambini's forenames as Giovanni Giuseppe (Jean-Joseph). Fétis also stated that he studied with Polli, who is otherwise unknown. Cambini's own account (AMZ, vi) of his playing quartets as a young man with Manfredi, Nardini and Boccherini contains errors that raise questions about its validity, but it is likely that he worked with Manfredi. The tradition of his study with Padre Martini is doubtful, as is that of his personal contact with Haydn.

Well, nonetheless, the music is what counts, who cares about that old history crap anyway...

Thanks for the tip about BRO. Stuck it in my basket while shopping to fill put a new order. Looks interesting, and gap-filling at the same time! 




----------------
Now playing:
Czech-Slovak RSO / Johanos - Gliere Op 42 Symphony #3 in b 1st mvmt - Andante sostenuto - Allegro risoluto - Tranquillo misterioso - Tempo I

[Gurn Blanston]

Found a little Cambini today in the 'used' section. I'll have it to listen to by the weekend, I hope.



It has 2 symphonies and 2 sinfonias concertante, 1 for 2 violins and one for oboe and bassoon. This band is on the Vivaldi complete edition too, PI, first rate. Some days you just live right.

[Leon]

I've been listening to the Bilson Schubert Piano Sonatas (played on fortepiano) from Naxos Music Library - and enjoying them very much.  Thanks to Gurn for bringing these to my attention.  I've started in Vol. 7 and will work my way back through the others. 



The odd thing is that on NML, the titles do not reflect the volume numbers (other than #7) so I have to locate them by the recording label.  They also failed to tag them with Bilson as the artist. 

[Antoine Marchand]

The odd thing is that on NML, the titles do not reflect the volume numbers (other than #7) so I have to locate them by the recording label.  They also failed to tag them with Bilson as the artist. 

If you select the option: "Piano Sonatas (Complete)", all discs are ordered by volume number.

[Gurn Blanston]

I've been listening to the Bilson Schubert Piano Sonatas (played on fortepiano) from Naxos Music Library - and enjoying them very much.  Thanks to Gurn for bringing these to my attention.  I've started in Vol. 7 and will work my way back through the others. 



The odd thing is that on NML, the titles do not reflect the volume numbers (other than #7) so I have to locate them by the recording label.  They also failed to tag them with Bilson as the artist. 

Cool, Leon, that's a great way to get to hear them (once you get through the mystery title/artist tags). Glad you like them. Here at the Classical Corner, we aim to please!

[Leon]

If you select the option: "Piano Sonatas (Complete)", all discs are ordered by volume number.

Ah, I will try that - thanks Antoine.

I am new to NML and still learning how to navagate the site.  So far, I am not pleased with their seach engine since it returns pages of results and not actually reflecting the kind of filtering I had requested.  But it is a great resource for hearing a wide variety of music without having to commit to a purchase. 

I put in a search of "fortepiano" and found some pretty interesting things that I did not know existed. 
 

[Antoine Marchand]

Ah, I will try that - thanks Antoine.

I am new to NML and still learning how to navagate the site.  So far, I am not pleased with their seach engine since it returns pages of results and not actually reflecting the kind of filtering I had requested.  But it is a great resource for hearing a wide variety of music without having to commit to a purchase. 

I put in a search of "fortepiano" and found some pretty interesting things that I did not know existed. 
 

Coincidently, last night I was listening to the piano sonata No. 17, known as the Gasteiner, and I thought it's the best performance that I have listened to, especially the second movement.

I don't like the last movement (a bit anticlimatic), but that's a Schubert problem (or maybe just mine). 

 

[mc ukrneal]

Navneeth, thanks for that link! A couple of these to start off with, I think:



Both look very interesting indeed. Quite fond of Bohemian music, I need to jump at a chance to hear some a bit earlier than anything else I've heard.

Those do look great. Thanks to all for posting about them (my first temptation of the year)!

[chasmaniac]

A scholar I am not, but I think the Classical Corner is a good place to offer this:

http://thesavagebreast.blogspot.com/

It attempts to catalogue composers of string quartets in the classical era, and mark off those compositions that can be found in professional recordings. Bear in mind, it is in no way a list of all such recordings.

Corrections and additions are welcome.

[SonicMan46]

Mozart Piano Quartets, K.478 & 493 - these are late Wolfie superlative works (and not many others have written for this combination) - I just acquired a new disc w/ Paul Badura-Skoda on fortepiano (Johann Schantz, Vienna ca. 1790 - I'm assuming a restoration?) w/ Quatuor Festetics (1993 recording date) - just finished my first listen to this performance - excellent!

Now my other LONG time favorite is Steven Lubin (on a fortepiano replica by R.J. Regier, 1981 after Anton Walter ca. 1785) w/ the Mozartean Players - have not done any comparisons but guarantee that I'll be keeping BOTH of these recordings; just prefer them over several 'modern' performances that I owned in the past.  For those wanting Mozart's Piano Quartets and who prefer modern instruments, I would still suggest having one of these PI offerings - both are just outstanding -