Gurn's Classical Corner

[Brian]

If you are interested in that phenomenon (the rise of the Canon of Great Music and art for art's sake and all that there) at all, I will do my best to find the title of the book I read on it several years ago now. It was really quite fascinating of itself, and when you see the state that music is in today, that's where the roots are.

Hate to trouble you, but I am very interested in that. It sort of sits on the border of a research project of my own right now.

[Gurn Blanston]

That was indeed the most provocative part. For the record, I do like a lot of modern music. And Late Romantics as well. So please, gents, don't judge me too harsh.  0:)

I don't blame you for saying it. Certainly, taken at face value it has a harsh element of truthiness to it. But then when one realizes the subjective aspect of it, it becomes a harder position to hold. I also like a modest amount of modern music, and substantially more Late Romantic. Can't compare with Classical Era or Early Romantic though. The Gurnian is the Golden Age, and I like gold...



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Now playing:
Costantino Mastroprimiano - Clementi Op 23 #3 Sonata in Eb 2nd mvmt - Air & 6 Variations: Allegretto vivace

[Gurn Blanston]

Hate to trouble you, but I am very interested in that. It sort of sits on the border of a research project of my own right now.

OK, check back at this space in a little bit and I will have something. Problem with reading so many books is remembering what I read where, after a couple of years. Oh, I know, it's easy now. You'll see.



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Now playing:
Constantino Mastroprimiano - Clementi Op 24 #1 Sonata in F 1st mvmt - Allegro assai

[Opus106]

Problem with reading so many books is remembering what I read where, after a couple of years.

You should join Good Reads.

[Gurn Blanston]

You should join Good Reads.

Looks interesting. I may do. Apparently there actually IS a finite amount of baggage space available in the brain. I was hoping I could stretch mine out until I didn't need that much any more, but no...      Thanks,



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Now playing:
Constantino Mastroprimiano - Clementi Op 24 #1 Sonata in F 3rd mvmt - Arietta con Variazione: Vivace

[Florestan]

I was reading an excellent essay on Haydn's reception just last week. The term 'sublime' comes up in a couple of spots, and its usage there is based on the fact that his entire orchestra was playing full out suddenly. Well, the author was quick to point out that the entire orchestra for that work was 19 people, and when played identically today it makes little or no impression at all, and yet writers from the time are quite amazed at the din that was created at that particular point. It wouldn't have been any different with Mozart.

That's another mishap that Late Romanticism is to be blamed for: it drowned us in an ocean of sounds of such magnitude as to nearly completely obliterate our ability to see greatness and sublimity in the smaller forces of the past.  How could the poor 19 fiddlers of Haydn surprise and impress an ear brought up on an orchestral sound where the brass section alone far exceeds that number? 

[Bogey]

You should join Good Reads.

Yup.  What is your name over there Opus 106?

[Brian]

That's another mishap that Late Romanticism is to be blamed for: it drowned us in an ocean of sounds of such magnitude as to nearly completely obliterate our ability to see greatness and sublimity in the smaller forces of the past.  How could the poor 19 fiddlers of Haydn surprise and impress an ear brought up on an orchestral sound where the brass section alone far exceeds that number? 

Of course, it is not merely the composers who are to blame; today we listen to music in such gargantuan concert halls that were an orchestra of 19 to play a Haydn symphony, the people in the balcony would have to strain their ears. Concerts were staged in much smaller spaces - or, of course, in the largest space of all, the outdoors - and not to an audience of thousands except in very rare and remarkable circumstances. If "music rooms" ever came back in fashion, I'd be in line to buy a ticket!

[Gurn Blanston]

That's another mishap that Late Romanticism is to be blamed for: it drowned us in an ocean of sounds of such magnitude as to nearly completely obliterate our ability to see greatness and sublimity in the smaller forces of the past.  How could the poor 19 fiddlers of Haydn surprise and impress an ear brought up on an orchestral sound where the brass section alone far exceeds that number? 

Oh, there's no doubt that we're ruined in that regard. It is very difficult to appreciate 18th century music on its own terms, the best efforts of PI musicians notwithstanding. We are simply ruined.

In 1998 or so, I went to a concert in Atlanta (Atlanta SO / Levi). They opened with a Haydn symphony (#98, IIRC) which they blessedly played with 33 players on stage. I know, I counted. Later, in the second half, they played Franck's "Le Chasseur Maudit" and did a splendid job, I might add. In contrast, there were 39 violins on the stage for it. 33 musicians v 39 violins. Things were different then. 20 years earlier, they would have played the Haydn with 39 violins too.

[Bogey]

Of course, it is not merely the composers who are to blame; today we listen to music in such gargantuan concert halls that were an orchestra of 19 to play a Haydn symphony, the people in the balcony would have to strain their ears. Concerts were staged in much smaller spaces - or, of course, in the largest space of all, the outdoors - and not to an audience of thousands except in very rare and remarkable circumstances. If "music rooms" ever came back in fashion, I'd be in line to buy a ticket!

Correct, but most concert halls are only a third filled each night....they still ask ask $66 or up for a nice seat (and that is in Colorado....we are not talking NY or London or Vienna, etc)....so, if you think about it, not much has changed in 300+ years and a smaller ensamble would work for the royalty bourgeoisie patrons that can afford it on a regular basis during these economic times.

[Florestan]

Of course, it is not merely the composers who are to blame; today we listen to music in such gargantuan concert halls that were an orchestra of 19 to play a Haydn symphony, the people in the balcony would have to strain their ears. Concerts were staged in much smaller spaces - or, of course, in the largest space of all, the outdoors - and not to an audience of thousands except in very rare and remarkable circumstances. If "music rooms" ever came back in fashion, I'd be in line to buy a ticket!

Very true! And --- count me in.  0:)

[Florestan]

Correct, but most concert halls are only a third filled each night....they still ask ask $66 or up for a nice seat (and that is in Colorado....we are not talking NY or London or Vienna, etc)....so, if you think about it, not much has changed in 300+ years and a smaller ensamble would work for the royalty bourgeoisie patrons that can afford it on a regular basis during these economic times.

On the contrary, it changed a lot: Prince Eszterhazy asked nothing from his guests... 

[Bogey]

On the contrary, it changed a lot: Prince Eszterhazy asked nothing from his guests... 

That is because getting there and parking was a "bear".

[Gurn Blanston]

That is because getting there and parking was a "bear".

Just 2 days of hard driving of the horses! Plus, I hear that you had to know someone...

[Florestan]

The gap that I find most important is the gap separating our world of technology and the world of Haydn, which was a quieter world, a world with less industrialization and nothing like the technological overtaking of our lives.  It was a time where most things were handmade, and while life was arguably much harder physically and rougher, it was possibly more connected to the value of what went into making anything and most people, all but the aristocracy, did not have the luxury of "collecting" they made-do with what they had for as long as possible and did not waste things, or treat them lightly.

This is interesting.

[Opus106]

Yup.  What is your name over there Opus 106?

Hi, Bill. It's Navneeth.

[Leo K.]

I'm just discovering Joseph Eybler, his first two symphonies and  C minor Quartet.

This is wonderful stuff.

[Gurn Blanston]

I'm just discovering Joseph Eybler, his first two symphonies and D minor Quartet.

This is wonderful stuff.

Leo,
Those are both excellent disks. Eybler is not a total unknown, but he is far less known than he deserves to be. I quite enjoy his music.

[chasmaniac]

I'm just discovering Joseph Eybler, his first two symphonies and  C minor Quartet.

This is wonderful stuff.

I can recommend unreservedly his trio and quintet. I have the CPO recording. There is a similar one on MDG.

[SonicMan46]

I can recommend unreservedly his trio and quintet. I have the CPO recording. There is a similar one on MDG.

 

Currently, I own the 3 discs posted on Eybler and support the recommendations - are any other discs of interest?

Mozart & Brahms - Clarinet Quintets w/ Jean-Claude Veilhan & Quintette Stadler; the latter on period instruments - especially enjoy the Mozart work w/ a basset clarinet - have several other versions but these on the instruments meant for the original composition w/ Stadler on the clarinet of his times always impresses me - budget purchase from BRO - need to look into more of Veilhan's works on this label -