Gurn's Classical Corner

[SonicMan46]

Well, at the very least, Dave, Gabriel and myself like Kozeluch. Brief discussions have jumped up from time to time, but not a steady stream of them. The most likely rec's you will get are his symphonies on the "Contemporaries of Mozart" series on Chandos. And rightly so, since they are not only well done here, but also available (a lot to be said for that).

Leo - surprised that all I owned of Kozeluch is the one disc of Symphonies in the 6-CD box below, BUT what a box of interesting composers at both ends of the 18th century, and one of my favorite groups!

Now after Gurn's comments, I was eying the Piano Trios  w/ Trio 1790 (fortepiano), another favorite group of a number of members, including myself - has anyone heard this disc - quite inexpensvie on the Amazon MP at the moment!  Dave 

 

[mc ukrneal]

I would second (or third or fourth) the Contemporaries of Mozart series. Another Kozeluch that I have been considering is this one:
[asin]B0021JLQA6[/asin]

[Gurn Blanston]

I would second (or third or fourth) the Contemporaries of Mozart series. Another Kozeluch that I have been considering is this one:
[asin]B0021JLQA6[/asin]

Neal, I've been looking at that one too. Don't know much about it, neither the music nor the players. Of course, that's what adventure is about.   If you get it before I do, let us know. I'll do the same.   0:)

Leo - surprised that all I owned of Kozeluch is the one disc of Symphonies in the 6-CD box below, BUT what a box of interesting composers at both ends of the 18th century, and one of my favorite groups!

Now after Gurn's comments, I was eying the Piano Trios  w/ Trio 1790 (fortepiano), another favorite group of a number of members, including myself - has anyone heard this disc - quite inexpensvie on the Amazon MP at the moment!  Dave 

 

Dave, I don't have that trios disk, I have this one instead:


Knowing my fondness for Trio 1790, I can see me having that one soon, especially if it doesn't repeat the material (mine is Op 12 #1-3).

[mc ukrneal]

Neal, I've been looking at that one too. Don't know much about it, neither the music nor the players. Of course, that's what adventure is about.   If you get it before I do, let us know. I'll do the same.   0:)

Will do!

[SonicMan46]

Kozeluch, Leopold's output is NOT to be believed!  He left at least 400 works, including 63 Piano Trios!  These have been organized by the musicologist Milan Poštolka, and are listed as P. numbers in the Wiki Article HERE - the 'Trio 1790' recording has the following: P.IX:15 Gm, P.IX:14 AMj, and P.IX:18 Em - for Gurn's CD listed as Op. 12, I don't see that number under 'Piano Trios' although a number of these works have no opus number assigned?

At any rate, believe that I will put in an order now for the Trio 1790 - $9 on the Amazon MP - can't go too wrong!  Dave 

[Gurn Blanston]

Kozeluch, Leopold's output is NOT to be believed!  He left at least 400 works, including 63 Piano Trios!  These have been organized by the musicologist Milan Poštolka, and are listed as P. numbers in the Wiki Article HERE - the 'Trio 1790' recording has the following: P.IX:15 Gm, P.IX:14 AMj, and P.IX:18 Em - for Gurn's CD listed as Op. 12, I don't see that number under 'Piano Trios' although a number of these works have no opus number assigned?

At any rate, believe that I will put in an order now for the Trio 1790 - $9 on the Amazon MP - can't go too wrong!  Dave 

Dave,
I see the contents of that disk Are P15 in g minor, P14 in A major and P18 in e minor. My disk has Op 12 #2 in A major and Op 12 #3 in g minor, consecutive A M - g m both times. Coincidence? I don't think so.   Which is not to say that I won't get it anyway...   

[SonicMan46]

Dave,
I see the contents of that disk Are P15 in g minor, P14 in A major and P18 in e minor. My disk has Op 12 #2 in A major and Op 12 #3 in g minor, consecutive A M - g m both times. Coincidence? I don't think so.   Which is not to say that I won't get it anyway...   

Well, I put in an order for the Kozeluch Piano Trios w/ Trio 1790 - love that group and decided to listen to several of their other recordings; this time of one of the older & the youngest sons of Papa Bach!  Love those covers - 

 

[Leo K.]

I am really excited about checking these recommends for Kozeluch...thank you all!

[Leo K.]

Wow! I'm loving what I hearing here! Sonatas by Carl Loewe (30 November 1796 – 20 April 1869), currently I'm listening to the Grosse Sonate in E Major (with a baritone and soprano in the second movement), from:



(I mentioned enjoying his D minor Symphony earlier in the thread...great stuff)

[Leo K.]

Well, at the very least, Dave, Gabriel and myself like Kozeluch. Brief discussions have jumped up from time to time, but not a steady stream of them. The most likely rec's you will get are his symphonies on the "Contemporaries of Mozart" series on Chandos. And rightly so, since they are not only well done here, but also available (a lot to be said for that).

That would be these:

[asin]B00000I0TJ[/asin]


Now, mind you, Kozeluch was known in his own time as a virtuoso pianist. And true to form, you will be hard pressed to reach in and grab a fortepiano disk of his music. When it was first released, I bought this one for less than $10 brand new. Now it's a million, of course. Anyway, it's a good disk if you can find it reasonably.   There aren't a whole lot of others, but worth looking for. I will be trying one of his piano concerto disks if I can snap one up fair. And there are also works by him scattered all over the place with other composers. I have somehow acquired a considerable number of them, and not found a clinker yet. So my advice is to see what you can actually lay your hands on. You have a very good chance of finding something you like.

Wow! Gurn's recommend above of Kozeluch symphonies is an amazing disk 

I've heard the first two symphonies so far and they are very enjoyable indeed 

[Gurn Blanston]

Wow! Gurn's recommend above of Kozeluch symphonies is an amazing disk 

I've heard the first two symphonies so far and they are very enjoyable indeed 

Delighted you liked it, Leo. I like that entire series, I have yet to run across a loser in the lot. But this is a good example of why one needs to look past some of the stuff one reads about 'lesser' composers and give them a try if possible. If you go by what you read, there were only 1 or 2 composers at any given time actively working in Vienna from 1785 - 1825.   (Wranitzky might be another to check out. Just sayin')

[Leo K.]

Delighted you liked it, Leo. I like that entire series, I have yet to run across a loser in the lot. But this is a good example of why one needs to look past some of the stuff one reads about 'lesser' composers and give them a try if possible. If you go by what you read, there were only 1 or 2 composers at any given time actively working in Vienna from 1785 - 1825.   (Wranitzky might be another to check out. Just sayin')

Indeed! Tracking down these lessor known composers has revitalized my interest in music, which was already strong, into a kind of obsession! I wish I was a music historian so I could live with this stuff



Anyways, here is a fantastic disk of fortepiano sonatas by Johann Gottfried Eckard, played by Bridgette Haudebourg, the same pianist featured on the disk of Kozeluch works Gurn mentioned above.



I love the sound of the fortepiano on this disk, and the playing is immaculate. I've never this composer before and I would love to get his complete keyboard works when the budget allows 

Here is all the Wiki has on Johann Eckard:

Johann Gottfried Eckard (Eckhardt) (1735–1809) was a German pianist and composer. Born in Augsburg, he was apprenticed to a copper maker. He moved to Paris in 1758 and stayed there until his death. He was an early champion of the fortepiano over the harpsichord, being the first composer in Paris to write sonatas expressly for the instrument, and was as a composer stylistically somewhat similar to C. P. E. Bach. As a performer he was a famed improviser. Mozart, who had visited Paris in 1763/64, based a movement of his third piano concerto on a sonata movement by Eckhard.

[Gurn Blanston]

Indeed! Tracking down these lessor known composers has revitalized my interest in music, which was already strong, into a kind of obsession! I wish I was a music historian so I could live with this stuff

I was lucky; when I first started out collecting classical music, my mentor was already off into 'lesser knowns' so I actually was able to treat them on their own terms. I feel richer for it.

Anyways, here is a fantastic disk of fortepiano sonatas by Johann Gottfried Eckard, played by Bridgette Haudebourg, the same pianist featured on the disk of Kozeluch works Gurn mentioned above.



I love the sound of the fortepiano on this disk, and the playing is immaculate. I've never this composer before and I would love to get his complete keyboard works when the budget allows 

Here is all the Wiki has on Johann Eckard:

Johann Gottfried Eckard (Eckhardt) (1735–1809) was a German pianist and composer. Born in Augsburg, he was apprenticed to a copper maker. He moved to Paris in 1758 and stayed there until his death. He was an early champion of the fortepiano over the harpsichord, being the first composer in Paris to write sonatas expressly for the instrument, and was as a composer stylistically somewhat similar to C. P. E. Bach. As a performer he was a famed improviser. Mozart, who had visited Paris in 1763/64, based a movement of his third piano concerto on a sonata movement by Eckhard.

Interesting background stuff, Leo.I have a couple of disks of Exkard and quite enjoy them. I see the one I have on Zig-Zag isn't available any longer. So it goes. I'll have to pick up that Bridgette Haudebourg disk. She does play very well indeed.

[Leo K.]

So, a few weeks back I mentioned that I would be re-tagging my music tracks to reflect year of composition instead of year of recording. 

And not long ago I got the symphonies and quartets of the Beethoven done (still need to do the piano sonatas and other chamber music) and this weekend started in on Haydn. 

The Quartets did not present a problem but the keyboard sonatas were a bit more sketchy.  I got through the symphonies without much trouble - but when I hit the Scottish & Welsh songs - well, these will be a huge mess, so I intend to put them at the end of the line and only get to them when I have time.

I'm using Grove Music Online for the dating and it is interesting how the Brautigam and Schornsheim sets use a slightly different list of works, and only in a few cases did the numbering not match up (in one case, I think H. XVII:D.2, there were no dates given in the Grove list).  It is also interesting how the symphonies are somewhat a mess, with the Hoboken numbers being at this point not at all chronological.  While the newer research has nailed down a different order of composition, recordings still use the H. numbering - which actually is still the most convenient and consistent way to identify the works even if the numbering is out of order.

Next up will be the piano trios, and hopefully these won't present the kind of problems I had with the keyboard works.

Once I get the Mozart catalog done, I will have a nice sampling of music and will able to create playlists for individual years or a range of years and even sort them chronologically - which will be fun.

After these three major composers are finished, the hard part will be getting dates for the myriads of recordings I have of lesser known composers from this period and for whom DOCs are less documented, or at least less conveniently found.

That is a good idea, and you now have me considering managing my files this way.

If I recall, the Haydn piano trios may be a little confusing as well ragarding catalogue numbers, etc. I haven't looked at those numbers in a while, so I can't exactly say at the moment. Hopefully they won't be a problem.

[Gurn Blanston]

So, a few weeks back I mentioned that I would be re-tagging my music tracks to reflect year of composition instead of year of recording. 

And not long ago I got the symphonies and quartets of the Beethoven done (still need to do the piano sonatas and other chamber music) and this weekend started in on Haydn. 

The Quartets did not present a problem but the keyboard sonatas were a bit more sketchy.  I got through the symphonies without much trouble - but when I hit the Scottish & Welsh songs - well, these will be a huge mess, so I intend to put them at the end of the line and only get to them when I have time.

I'm using Grove Music Online for the dating and it is interesting how the Brautigam and Schornsheim sets use a slightly different list of works, and only in a few cases did the numbering not match up (in one case, I think H. XVII:D.2, there were no dates given in the Grove list).  It is also interesting how the symphonies are somewhat a mess, with the Hoboken numbers being at this point not at all chronological.  While the newer research has nailed down a different order of composition, recordings still use the H. numbering - which actually is still the most convenient and consistent way to identify the works even if the numbering is out of order.

Next up will be the piano trios, and hopefully these won't present the kind of problems I had with the keyboard works.

Once I get the Mozart catalog done, I will have a nice sampling of music and will able to create playlists for individual years or a range of years and even sort them chronologically - which will be fun.

After these three major composers are finished, the hard part will be getting dates for the myriads of recordings I have of lesser known composers from this period and for whom DOCs are less documented, or at least less conveniently found.

Leon, Dude! Listen, I am at least 80% of the way through the Scottish/Welsh songs right now, and also nearly done with all the other works too. There is no point in both of us working on Haydn, why don't you let me do it and you can do the others, then we'll swap. Hell, I'm 2 years into this project already, someone else might as well benefit from it too.

[Leo K.]

Although it sounds very tedius, it is not really so bad.  I am using iTunes and wish there were more options for global editing, it is possible that if you are using a differnet media library software, it could be accomplished with less work.

I too use iTunes to manage my music libarary. I simply love this program, and never imagined I would almost prefer an iPod over CDs, but I almost do 

[Gurn Blanston]

Although it sounds very tedius, it is not really so bad.  I am using iTunes and wish there were more options for global editing, it is possible that if you are using a differnet media library software, it could be accomplished with less work.

I use MP3 Tag and it's a piece of cake. It isn't the tagging etc., it's the research that is time-consuming. And of course, as you discovered, with Haydn there are a lot of decisions to make. As a quick example, the are the first 12 string trios  (Hob. V:1-12) and the date given for them is "circa 1757". So, what do you do there? What I did was make 1-3 in 1756, 4-6 in 1757 etc. That way when I play back, I don't get a big string of all 12 at the same time. And of course, 'circa 1757' is just one of several dates that are proposed for these works. Haydn is fun!

[Gurn Blanston]

Roger - I will begin working on Mozart instead of more Haydn.  One thing iTunes is able to do is copy the track listing, so I can export that into Excel and post a nice list.

Yes, I'm doing mine in Excel anyway, so that will work just fine. Somewhere here (maybe in the "Haydn Symphonies" thread?) I posted the data on chronology of the symphonies, and Op 106 and Scarpia organized it into a nice looking list. You might search that up and it will get you started on that part anyway.

[Gurn Blanston]

Oh, I too love the convenience of the iPod and in general don't have any real gripes with iTunes.  But, there is no easy way edit all the same works in various recordings (at least I've not found one other than highlighting those tracks manually), so you end up having to plug in the years for the same works multiple times.

Just FYI, although this is just what I do, which is that I put in the "Album" field of all the tracks the year. So in Haydn, for example, I then just choose the album "1770" and get a nice playlist with lots of variety from symphonies to quartets to an opera.

[Gurn Blanston]

I remember those posts  - but I ended up using a different list I found with the Hoboken numbers and the new numbering, and have finished the symphonies.  I'm hoping Mozart is easier than Haydn.  Beethoven wasn't so bad, unless the piano sonatas are a mess.

Here is the best Beethoven list. Totally chronological. You'll love it (once you get past all the stuff you never knew existed). I suggest using Word's search function....

http://www.mediafire.com/?12urm4wmmyr