Gurn's Classical Corner

[Leo K.]

  Yes, I realized (and feared) the danger of turning you loose there, but what can I say?  Damn the torpedoes! 

I am listening to the Grand Duo as I type, and enjoying it very much. The balance between the instruments on this disk is superb, probably equivalent to what a modern clarinet and modern concert grand would be, although I would want to be sitting several rows nearer the rear in that case.   The timbre marks the difference though. That beautiful wooden clarinet and wood frame English action grand piano are just more characterful. And the playing is as good as I had hoped for, so we are hitting on all cylinders now.

You're right, the coupling of the Burgmüller & Loewe with the Weber was what had attracted my attention to the disk at first, given that you had posted on both of those guys. And I am already a Danzi and Stadler fan, so really, other than the off-chance that it just plain sucked, it was an obvious good choice. if you decide to get it, you won't be disappointed.



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Now playing:
Colin Lawson (Clarinet / Neal da Costa (Pianoforte) - Weber Op 48 Grand Duo Concertante in Eb for Clarinet & Pianoforte 1st mvmt - Allegro con fuoco

Thanks great the Lawson is a very good recording of the Weber. It sounds like you can't go wrong with this disk  There must be nothing like the balance between these old, beautiful intruments together. I can just imagine.

This conversation has put me in a sonata mood this morning; with Chopin, Haydn, and again I pulled out this Dussek disk:



And this is the disk that keeps on giving. The D Major, Op.32 (no.2) is quite amazing, and the slow movement is a wonder.

I also want to hear some of Carl Loewe's sonatas this morning. 

[Leo K.]

Wow! I'm loving what I hearing here! Sonatas by Carl Loewe (30 November 1796 – 20 April 1869), currently I'm listening to the Grosse Sonate in E Major (with a baritone and soprano in the second movement), from:



(I mentioned enjoying his D minor Symphony earlier in the thread...great stuff)

I want to repost about this disk of Carl Loewe sonatas. I've only listened to the Grosse Sonate in E Major, but I love it, and actually like concept of including voices, now that I've heard it.

[Gurn Blanston]

I want to repost about this disk of Carl Loewe sonatas. I've only listened to the Grosse Sonate in E Major, but I love it, and actually like concept of including voices, now that I've heard it.

Yes, that aroused by curiosity the first time you posted the contents. I don't understand the concept of a piano sonata accompanied by voices. How does it differ from a Lied? More movements? If so, are they all including singing or just one of them?



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Now playing:
Andreas Staier - Dussek Op 55 Fantasia & Fugue in f for Keyboard pt 1 - Fantasia

[Antoine Marchand]

Antoine,
Yes, both of those are fine disks, and highly recommendable (although my Staier is 3 separate disks, which I am very pleased to have that way). However, our discussion (which you unfortunately missed the beginning of) is specifically is about women interpreting Haydn now in view of the fact that the huge majority of these works were written specifically for women. To make up for your 2 male rec's, I am now forced to offer 2 more ladies in the interest of balance. 

Damn! You mentioned all the HIP girls I know, just excepting the Brilliant Classics set. 

[Gurn Blanston]

Damn! You mentioned all the HIP girls I know, just excepting the Brilliant Classics set. 

Yes, well me and HIP girls; match made in heaven   0:)

I did mention the Brilliant set, but failed to offer any comments on it. I would be interested to hear some.



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Now playing:
Andreas Staier - Dussek Op 61 Elegy in f# on the Death of Prince Louis pt 1 - Lento patetico - Tempo agitato

[Leo K.]

Yes, that aroused by curiosity the first time you posted the contents. I don't understand the concept of a piano sonata accompanied by voices. How does it differ from a Lied? More movements? If so, are they all including singing or just one of them?



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Now playing:
Andreas Staier - Dussek Op 55 Fantasia & Fugue in f for Keyboard pt 1 - Fantasia

Gurn, in this sonata, there are four movements as a traditional sonata, except that the second movement is a lied, with a duet for bartitone and soprano (I'm not sure what the lyric is, as I haven't a copy of the liner notes for this CD) and quite beautiful. The effect reminds me of Mahler's use of songs in a symphony.

Now, for the early romantic, or later classical era, I'm usually more of a purest when it comes to instrumental works, but after hearing this sonata by Loewe, I am enchanted and the singing sounds natural for this sonata.

[mc ukrneal]

Gurn, in this sonata, there are four movements as a traditional sonata, except that the second movement is a lied, with a duet for bartitone and soprano (I'm not sure what the lyric is, as I haven't a copy of the liner notes for this CD) and quite beautiful. The effect reminds me of Mahler's use of songs in a symphony.

Now, for the early romantic, or later classical era, I'm usually more of a purest when it comes to instrumental works, but after hearing this sonata by Loewe, I am enchanted and the singing sounds natural for this sonata.

I'm very intrigued by your description, especially as I love his lied in the first place. I never really thought past them, so something to look forward to.

[Gurn Blanston]

Gurn, in this sonata, there are four movements as a traditional sonata, except that the second movement is a lied, with a duet for bartitone and soprano (I'm not sure what the lyric is, as I haven't a copy of the liner notes for this CD) and quite beautiful. The effect reminds me of Mahler's use of songs in a symphony.

Now, for the early romantic, or later classical era, I'm usually more of a purest when it comes to instrumental works, but after hearing this sonata by Loewe, I am enchanted and the singing sounds natural for this sonata.

OK, cool. That's how I imagined it to be but didn't have anything to go by as a model. Anything else would be a song cycle, wouldn't it? 

Guess I'll have to break down and have a go at him. This little clarinet pieces are my only Loewe so far. We'll see how Loewe I can go... 



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Now playing:
Andreas Staier - Dussek Op 61 Elegy in f# on the Death of Prince Louis pt 2 - Tempo vivace e con fuoco, quasi presto

[Leo K.]

I'm very intrigued by your description, especially as I love his lied in the first place. I never really thought past them, so something to look forward to.

I think you will find this sonata enjoyable! I haven't heard his lieder as of yet, but it is now in my sights 

[Leo K.]

see how Loewe I can go... 

By the way, this sonata of Loewe's is also very reflective in tone, like Schubert, and I love that quality in Loewe's sonatas (at least the two I've heard so far). 

[Gurn Blanston]

By the way, this sonata of Loewe's is also very reflective in tone, like Schubert, and I love that quality in Loewe's sonatas (at least the two I've heard so far). 

Well, there came a time rather later in Loewe's career when Schubert discovery combined with Schubert nostalgia was all the rage in Vienna. It wouldn't be the slightest surprise if that was a strong influence on him artistically. Clearly I need to do some exploring.



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Now playing:
Camerata Bern - Stamitz J Concerto in C for Violin 1st mvmt - Allegro non molto

[Leo K.]

Wow, wow, WOW. A great disk so far! And I'm really loving Czerny! Christoph Hammer gets a great sound on the fortepiano!

The Variationen über den beliebten Trauerwalzer für das Pianoforte Op. 12 absolutely sounds cosmic! I didn't know a fortepiano could show so much power 

Here is what is on this recording:

--Variationen über den beliebten Trauerwalzer für das Pianoforte Op. 12
--Introduction, Variations Brillantes Et Rondeau De Chasse Op. 202
--Fantaisie Pour Le Pianoforte Op. 27
--Première Sonate As-Dur Op. 7

I'm listening to the Sonata now, and it is so wonderful, and at about 33 minutes, rather epic. So far, the first movement is reflective and meditative in atmosphere.

[Leo K.]

Well, there came a time rather later in Loewe's career when Schubert discovery combined with Schubert nostalgia was all the rage in Vienna. It wouldn't be the slightest surprise if that was a strong influence on him artistically. Clearly I need to do some exploring.



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Now playing:
Camerata Bern - Stamitz J Concerto in C for Violin 1st mvmt - Allegro non molto

That would be interesting to find out more about Loewe and the influence of Schubert! Excellant!

[Gurn Blanston]

Cool! I enjoy Czerny a lot; if I subscribed to the concept of "underrated" "overrated" etc, I would definitely put him in the underrated category. I have that monumental Sonata #1 too. Hard to squeeze 5 movements into less than 33 minutes, I suppose. Mine is by Anton Kuerti on ORC label, modern piano I'm afraid, but nonetheless very nice. I'll have to look for that disk of yours since the sonata is the only work in common on the 2.



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Now playing:
Camerata Bern - Stamitz J Concerto in C for Violin 3rd mvmt - Allegro

[Leo K.]

This fortepiano set has been quite enjoyable too. The John Field Nocturnes are quite a revelation for me, and I love the choice of fortepianos for Field AND Chopin. What a sound!

The Corner has put me in a piano/fortepiano mood! Thanks!

[Leo K.]

Cool! I enjoy Czerny a lot; if I subscribed to the concept of "underrated" "overrated" etc, I would definitely put him in the underrated category. I have that monumental Sonata #1 too. Hard to squeeze 5 movements into less than 33 minutes, I suppose. Mine is by Anton Kuerti on ORC label, modern piano I'm afraid, but nonetheless very nice. I'll have to look for that disk of yours since the sonata is the only work in common on the 2.



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Now playing:
Camerata Bern - Stamitz J Concerto in C for Violin 3rd mvmt - Allegro

I recently read a review regarding a set of Czerny sonatas, on Musicweb, that also mentioned Schubert in regards to influences for Czerny, saying Czerny's sonatas had more Schubert influence than Beethoven. I tend to agree!

[Gurn Blanston]

This fortepiano set has been quite enjoyable too. The John Field Nocturnes are quite a revelation for me, and I love the choice of fortepianos for Field AND Chopin. What a sound!

The Corner has put me in a piano/fortepiano mood! Thanks!

That's a nice box, I just listened to the Field Nocturnes from it yesterday, in fact! I like Field's music, it is definitely forward-looking.

[Leo K.]

You probably own Jon Nakamtsu's recording for Harmonia Mundi, which, if a bit mechanical, is very good and is a quite reliable sample of this composer. However, the most devoted person towards Wölfl seems to be Laure Colladant, who has recorded many of the piano sonatas (played on a pianoforte). I have most of her recordings: opp. 6, 15, 28 and 33. Very good music indeed.

I have some of his other chamber works. Of particular interest: the piano trios op. 23 (led also by Colladant), and the string quartets op. 4 (Authentic Quartet in Hungaroton). They are music of their time: there are no great innovations, but the music is magnificently crafted and always very inventive.

An "unexpected highlight" of Wölfl's music are his two symphonies. There is, to my knowledge, just one recording, released by the Russian label Caro Mitis and very well played by the Pratum Integrum Orchestra. They are certainly more conventional works than Beethoven's or Eberl's works of the same period, but very interesting works nonetheless. (The Andante of the G minor symphony is a memorable movement: simple and effective, its ideas are quite Mozartian, but their treatment is Haydnesque). This CD includes a "bonus": a D minor "duo" (sonata) for piano and cello, op. 31, that crowns the disc. The repertoire for piano and cello of the classical period is particularly scarce, so it's a very welcome item in any collection, but its interest is more than anecdotic: this work is beautiful from the beginning to the end, with a dazzling finale showing unusually evident syncopations in its A subject that can't be explained but by heavy folkloric influence. A hidden treasure.

I'm quoting the above, from Gabriel, earlier in this thread, since I'm listening to this disk again this morning, and I'm really happy hearing Wolfl's symphonies. The orchestration is very interesting, and the spirit of the musc is always in forward motion. I love this disk. 

[Leo K.]

Perhaps someone here also has this recording. Perhaps some of these composers have been mentioned here on the board already:



This disk is so amazing! Here is what is on it. A true treasure trove of 18th Century bliss from the Il Gardellino Ensemble :

Johann Gottlieb Janitsch (1708-c.1763)
--Quartet for oboe, violin, viola & continuo in G- ("O Haupt voll Blut und Wunden")
--Sonata da Camera for flute, oboe, violin & continuo in C, Op.4
--Sonate for traversflute, oboe, viola da gamba und continuo, in D "Echo"

Wiki: Janitsch was born in Schweidnitz, Silesia. He graduated from the University of Frankfurt an der Oder. He held various positions at the court of the Kingdom of Prussia, eventually becoming the personal musician of Frederick the Great. Janitsch died in the Prussian capital Berlin. Unfortunately, much of his music was lost during World War II. His manuscripts were stored at the Berlin Singakademie which was plundered during the war. Twenty-eight quadro sonatas have survived to modern times.

Christoph Schaffrath (1709-1763)
--Sonata for harpsichord obligato & viola da gamba in A

Wiki:He applied to be organist at the Sophienkirche in Dresden, but did not receive this position (Wilhelm Friedemann Bach was favoured for it). He did serve in the court of the Crown Prince Frederick (Frederick the Great) as a harpsichordist in the orchestra. From 1741, however, he was strictly the musician to the King's sister, Amalia.

As a composer Schaffrath limited himself to instrumental music including symphonies, keyboard pieces, sonatas and concertos. The harpsichord sonatas were almost all fast-slow-fast settings and the opening movements were most often scored in ABA form. Many of the keyboard compositions were simple two-part formulations with the left hand playing the lesser role. Schaffrath's music can be considered transitional pieces which are stylistically galant between the Baroque and the Classical, characteristically melodious and composed of short phrases using triplets and steady rhythms. He composed counterpoint well as found in his orchestral music but most of his music lacked an expressive fervor. The majority of his works may now be found in the state library in Berlin.

He composed many types of music. He was most notable for: overtures, symphonies, harpsichord concerti, quartets, trios, duets for a solo instrument and obbligato harpsichord, and sonatas for harpsichord.

Johann Gottlieb Graun (1698-1771)
--Trio for oboe, violin, cello & continuo in F

Wiki: Graun was born in Wahrenbrück. His brother Carl Heinrich was also a composer and singer. He studied with J.G. Pisendel in Dresden, and Giuseppe Tartini in Prague. Appointed Konzertmeister in Merseburg in 1726, he taught the violin to J.S. Bach's son Wilhelm Friedemann. He joined the court of the Prussian crown prince (who later became Frederick the Great) in 1732 and was made Konzertmeister of the Berlin Opera in 1740.

Graun was a highly respected violinist and composer, whose works continued to be performed after his death. "The concert-master, John Gottlib Graun, brother to the opera-composer, his admirers say, 'was one of the greatest performers on the violin of his time, and most assuredly, a composer of the first rank'," wrote Charles Burney. As a composer, he was primarily known for his instrumental works, though he also wrote vocal music and operas. He wrote a large number of violin concertos, trio sonatas, and solo sonatas for violin with cembalo, and also wrote two string quartets - among the earliest attempts in this genre. He also wrote many concertos for viola da gamba, which were very virtuosic, and were played by Ludwig Christian Hesse, considered the leading gambist of the time.

Despite the popularity of his works, Graun was not free from criticism. "In his concertos and church music... the length of each movement is more immoderate than Christian patience can endure," wrote Charles Burney.
       
These works really set an atmospheric mood. I can just imagine a rainy sky 

[Leo K.]

Nice list, Gurn. I would add these two recommendations (Brautigam is self-recommended):

[asin]B0007AC1GO[/asin]



3-CD set. Great performances by Staier playing on two copies after Anton Walter (c. 1790 & 1792). Its price is almost irresistible on Amazon .

A friend loaned me this set so I can burn it into iTunes. Wow. This set of Haydn sonatas is simply astounding. I love the sound and the playing, with all the variations of tone and dynamics. This is the best Haydn sonata set I have yet heard in my limited experience with Haydn's sonatas. I always prefer the sound of a fortepiano if I can get it--so this is great!