Gurn's Classical Corner

[Gurn Blanston]

Are they in the big Hogwood symphony/serenade box or do you have to pick it up individually?

No, they are not in that multi-million dollar box!   The serenades are not in there completely, only the 4 or 5 movements of them that he polished up into symphonies. And only the orchestral serenades were done that way (by Mozart I mean, not by Hogwood), not the littler wind and string ensembles. Ones like "Posthorn" and "Haffner" that are major orchestral works to start with.



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Now playing:
Amadeus Winds - K 375 Serenade in Eb for Winds 5th mvmt -  Allegro

[DavidW]

Well poop!  Is there a nice PI box set of cassations, divertimenti and serenades?

[Gurn Blanston]

Well poop!  Is there a nice PI box set of cassations, divertimenti and serenades?

You should be so lucky...

What I have has been pieced together over 10 years of intensive searching. And I don't have everything PI yet either, because things like the orchestral serenades are not recorded yet, AFAIK. I mean, you can get the odd one here or there (I have the Haffner by 2 different groups, and the Robinig by L'Archibudelli and friends), but money isn't going to resolve this one, I'm afraid. But, the Freiburg Baroque or the Concerto Köln would make a killing with a series like that!




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Now playing:
Amadeus Winds - K 384a 388 Serenade in c for Winds 1st mvmt - Allegro

[chasmaniac]

I have 3 or 4 Rolla disks, but not that one. It is good music, I would personally have a go with that disk, I think you will be pleased. As always though, let me know if it sucks....

I can now confirm, strongly in fact, the loveliness of this disc. Fred's Bank has nothing to fear on this account.

The recorded sound is strikingly earthy, feels like you're sitting in the room with the players.

[Gurn Blanston]

I can now confirm, strongly in fact, the loveliness of this disc. Fred's Bank has nothing to fear on this account.

The recorded sound is strikingly earthy, feels like you're sitting in the room with the players.

  Excellent, Fred will be delighted!

By sheer coincidence I was listening to Rolla on my way to work this morning. When it first popped up I didn't recognize it and just sat back enjoying, although finally I had to check and see. It was the Sinfonia in Bb for Strings by the Milan Chamber Orchestra. From this disk;



Amazon doesn't have the disk any longer, but the MP3's are inexpensive anyway, and well worth it. 

In any case, I am delighted that you are pleased with it. Pleasant surprises are the best ones.

[chasmaniac]

  Excellent, Fred will be delighted!

By sheer coincidence I was listening to Rolla on my way to work this morning. When it first popped up I didn't recognize it and just sat back enjoying, although finally I had to check and see. It was the Sinfonia in Bb for Strings by the Milan Chamber Orchestra. From this disk;



Amazon doesn't have the disk any longer, but the MP3's are inexpensive anyway, and well worth it. 

In any case, I am delighted that you are pleased with it. Pleasant surprises are the best ones.

Didn't know about that one. It's hard enough to track what is in print, let alone the myriad deletes. While we're on a Rolla roll, here are the discs I have. Can't review them from memory, but if anyone is curious about one, I'll give it a listen and react.

Sei Duetti a Due Viole, Tactus 751803
Tre Duetti Concertanti, Op.15, Tactus 751802
Duos for Violin and Viola, Pan 10172
3 Duos for Violin and Violincello, CPO 999964
Duetti per Flauto e Violino, Tactus 751801
Trio Concertante, Op.1 (2), Hungaroton 32020
Flute Chamber Music, Dynamic 594
Violin Sonatas et al., Naxos 8572010

(Edited to get it right.)

[Gurn Blanston]

Didn't know about that one. It's hard enough to track what is in print, let alone the myriad deletes. While we're on a Rolla roll, here are the discs I have. Can't review them from memory, but if anyone is curious about one, I'll give it a listen and react.

Sei Duetti a Due Viole, Tactus 751803
Tre Duetti Concertanti, Op.15, Tactus 751802
Duos for Violin and Viola, Pan 10172
3 Duos for Violin and Violincello, CPO 999964
Duetti per Flauto e Violino, Tactus 751801
Trio Concertante, Op.1 (2), Hungaroton 32020
Flute Chamber Music, Dynamic 594

Yes, virtually impossible. Since I usually only buy oddities anyway, I have found myself in the odd position of having 75% of my collection OOP. 

I think I have 4 Rolla disks, your Hungaroton seemingly the only one we have in common. I'll check tonight when I get home. I think we have the same music, just different performances of it.   

[SonicMan46]

I am now very interested in solo piano work from the early 19th century, particularly in sonatas, and my listening has tended towards this genre as of late. Another disk I was blown away by, is this disk:

 

It goes without saying how great Christine Schornsheim is in these performances. She plays on two fortepianos, the table piano Érard, 1802 (for the Capricos, op. 2) and the fortepiano Érard 1808, for the sonatas.

This is the first time I had heard of Alexandre Boely (1785-1858) and I dearly hope more of his sonatas are recorded sometime in the near future, or sooner! I have read about him on this board before.

Here is a copy of the review of this recording from musicweb:  Re: see original post for detailed review...

Boely, Alexandre (1785-1858) - Chamber Music w/ Quatuor Mosaiques & Ensemble Baroque de Limoges, Christophe Coin - a number of pages back Leo brought up this French composer in a discussion of his keyboard works w/ Schornsheim - a disc that I acquired immediately and enjoy; my first experience w/ Boely - a brief Wiki bio HERE - 

Well, I decided to pick up the chamber music disc added above w/ an excellent group of performers; includes a variety of works from trios (on organ), string quartet, & sextet - beautifully written music that is well performed and w/ great sound!  Unfortunately, no liner notes are available; instead there is a 24-page PDF file (too large to attach; website - www.ebl-laborie.com/boely.pdf) - of no use to me because it is all in French but looks like an excellent discussion of not only the works but the performers and their instruments - if anyone out there has a good French-English PDF translation program, I'd appreciate a try; not sure how to get it back on except to split the PDF file into several parts? - thanks. 

[Gurn Blanston]

Well, along the Italian classicists line, which we seem to be learning more about daily here in the Corner, here is a discovery I made very recently.



These are some very nice concerti, they mark a clear division from the Baroque style that seemed to hang on in Italy long after it was obsolete elsewhere. I can only suppose that this stems from his time in Salzburg which enabled him to shake off his Italian background, at least for instrumental music. Working daily with the Mozart's and Michael Haydn had to have a modernizing effect on him!   

Here is what Grove's has to say:
Gatti, Luigi (Maria Baldassare) (b nr Mantua, 11 June 1740; d Salzburg, 1 March 1817).

Italian composer. He probably received his earliest musical training in Mantua, where his first opera, Alessandro nell'Indie was well received in 1768 and where he became a tenor at the church of S Barbara. The maestro di cappella, G.B. Pattoni, described him as a 'reliable tenor ... as well as a good organist and composer' (29 January 1768). In 1770 he met the Mozarts, then on their first Italian journey, and copied one of Wolfgang's masses (probably k66). In 1773 he competed unsuccessfully to become Pattoni's successor and on 16 July 1779 was appointed vice-maestro of S Barbara. For the inauguration of the Teatro Scientifico, the private theatre of the Reale Accademia of Mantua, he wrote the cantata Virgilio e Manto (1769). He served the academy as secondo maestro until 1783, composing occasional works such as Il certame of 1771 (with dialogue spoken by members of the academy). Even after he left Mantua, his music was performed at the academy: his oratorio La madre dei Maccabei (1775), revised and enlarged, had 14 performances at the Teatro Scientifico in 1793.

In 1778 Salzburg Cathedral began negotiations with Gatti, though he did not want to leave Mantua then for more than two or three months. On 14 February 1783 he became the last Italian Kapellmeister of the Salzburg court and cathedral. Leopold Mozart had sought the post and his disparaging remarks may reflect jealousy (letter to Wolfgang, 12 October 1782). However, Wolfgang showed respect for Gatti when, on 22 January 1783, he asked his father to have Gatti procure an Italian libretto for him. In Salzburg Gatti directed the chapel boys' choir (after 1796), taught composition (his principal student was J.J. Fuetsch), composed much sacred music for the cathedral and compiled a thematic catalogue of the music in its library. He composed a mass based on Haydn's Creation (autograph in I-OS) and also adapted Haydn's oratorio for keyboard. He is mentioned in other Mozart correspondence (1782–6) and in letters of Nannerl to Breitkopf & Härtel (1801–4), when Gatti was helping her locate some of her brother's scores. Gatti also wrote letters to this publisher (1803–6), which before World War II were in their archive.

Few of Gatti's works were published in his lifetime, though a large number are extant in manuscript copies (especially in A-Sd, I-OS and A-KR). A good proportion of these manuscripts are autographs, frequently showing extensive revision. The works reveal a composer of great facility and assuredness. His instrumental pieces have the melodic fluidity and lyricism that would be expected of a composer whose roots lay in vocal, and especially operatic, writing. They contain considerable rhythmic flexibility, and the suavity is enhanced by frequent charming and surprising details. He composed in the forms typical of his time, but achieved a fine variety through changes of texture and rhythm so that phrases are not often repeated exactly. There are also many interesting harmonic excursions, particularly at the beginning of development sections. Gatti had a predilection for the oboe, although he was not trained on that instrument. While there is little interest in virtuosic display, per se, his instrumental parts are always interesting and often challenging. He did not generally explore extremes of range, but his F major oboe quartet (dating from about 1806) takes the oboe part up to g''' and is one of the earliest such passages written for the instrument.

WORKS
opere serie
Alessandro nell'Indie (P. Metastasio), Mantua, Ducal, 24 Jan 1768, P-La, 1 aria I-MAav
Nitteti (Metastasio), Mantua, Ducal, spr. 1773, arias GB-Lbl, D-Dl (2), D-WRtl, I-Bc, Gl, OS, S-Skma
Armida (G. de Gamerra), Mantua, Ducal, 29 Jan 1775, 2 arias D-Dl, 1 aria I-Mc
Olimpiade (Metastasio), Salzburg, Hof, 30 Sept 1775, arias I-Gl, OS*, Tf, P-La (Act 1 only), duet D-WRtl
Antigono (Metastasio), Milan, Scala, 3 Feb 1781, with some music by Anfossi; F-Pc, arias I-Mc, OS*, P-La (Act 3 only)
Demofoonte (Metastasio), Mantua, Ducal, 12 May 1787, arias I-Rsc, S-Skma, quartetto Skma, ?duetto I-MAav

Arias in: A-Wgm, Sca, D-Dl, I-Gl, MAav, Mc, OS; 1 pubd (London, n.d.)

Oratorios
La madre dei Maccabei, Mantua, Scientifico, 2 April 1775; rev. Mantua, Scientifico, 27 Feb 1793; I-OS*, copies Pca, Gl, aria, duet, trio MAav, aria Mc
Il martiro dei SS. Nazario e Celso, Brescia, for completion of church of S Nazarius and S Celsus, 1780; score, pts, Pca*
Il voto di Jefte, 1794, collab. V. Benatti, L. Caruso; OS*
Abel's Tod (after Metastasio), Salzburg, 23 July 1806, possibly perf. in It., Mantua, 1788; OS*, copies A-Wn, I-Gl
Il trionfo di Gedeone, Fc

Other works
Ballets: Germanico in Germania (I. Gambuzzi), Milan, Interinale, 27 Dec 1777; Il ratto delle Sabine (S. Gallet), Mantua, April 1780; La grotta di Merlino, Salzburg, 1808
Cants. and occasional works: Virgilio e Manto, Mantua, Scientifico, 3 Dec 1769; Il certame, Mantua, Scientifico, 1771; Cantata (G.B. Bugnanza), Mantua, Scientifico, for the wedding of Archduke Ferdinand, June or early July 1775; Cantata in lode del Principe Arcivescovo di Olmütz, Mantua, Scientifico, 8 March 1778, I-OS*; L'isola disabitata (cant., Metastasio), Salzburg, 19 Jan 1783; Per il gloriosissimo anniversario del ... ingresso ... in Salisburgo di ... l'Arciduca Ferdinando (cant.), Salzburg, c1804, A-Sca; Cantata per le nozze dell'imperatore Francesco I con Luigia d'Este, 1808, I-OS*; Ino (Ger. text), 1v, pf, Salzburg, 1812; Cantata per il giorno dell'Epifania, Fc*; Ah! se a me fosse concesso (cant.), S, orch, Mantua, MAav; Christus verurtheilet, 4vv, ?Salzburg, OS*; German cant. for Hyeronimus Coloredo, OS*; Il sacrificio ad amore (cant.), OS*; arias in CH-E, D-Dl, HR, WRtl, HR-Zha, I-MAav, Mc, Tf

Sacred: 11 masses: 5 in A-KR, 3 in D-HR, 1 in D-KZa, 1 in OB, 1 in I-OS* (based on Haydn's Creation); 1 Requiem, A-KR; ?4 requiem settings, KR; Ave Maria, 4vv, orch (Florence, n.d.); Ave maris stella, 4vv, HR-Zha, I-PEd, PEsl; Beatus vir, A-KR; Ecce sacerdos magnus, KR; Laudate Dominum, KR; lit, HR-Zha; 2 lits, A-KR; Mane nobiscum Domine, Imf; Meditabor in mandatis, KR; O Jesu mi dulcissime, MS, KR, HR-Zha; O Maria alma, A-KR; O quam suavis est, HR-Zha*, A-KR; O salutaris hostia, CH-E; Offertorium de SS Sacramento, A-FK; Pange lingua, CH-E; Quis Deus magnus, A-KR; Stabat mater, HR-Zha, A-KR; Stupendum, KR; TeD, ed. C.E. Ruzicka (Fort Lauderdale, FL, 1989), Veritas mea, HR-Zha (?2 copies); other works in A-Sd, Wgm, Wn, CH-E, GB-Lbl, I-Bc, Fc, Li, OS, Pca

Inst:
Concs., hpd, bn, vn, I-OS*; Conc., hpd, orch, HR-Zha; 2 sinfonie, D-DS; Ouverture, D, I-Mc; Concertone, vn, va, vc, b, 2 ob, 2 hn, orch, MAav; Serenata, 2 vn, ob, 2 hn, bn, str, Salzburg, 1792, OS*; Adagio, ob, orch, OS*; March, fl, str, HR-Zha; 2 Septuor concertante, ob, str, OS*; Sextet, OS; Qnt, ob, str, OS; Qt, ob, str, OS*; Qt, ob, vn, va, bc, dated 1806, A-Sca; Trio, cl, va, vc, I-OS*; Trio, 2 fl, b, HR-Zha;
Divertimenti, 2 fl, b; vn, vc, b; vn, eng hn, hpd, I-OS*; Adagio, org [voce umana], vc, OS;
VI sonate, vn, va, A-Sca*; Sonate, vn, va; fl, va; hp, vc, I-OS*; Sonata terza, fl/vn, vc, hpd, OS*

Altogether a good composer with an interesting history. Worth checking out.

[SonicMan46]

Well, along the Italian classicists line, which we seem to be learning more about daily here in the Corner, here is a discovery I made very recently.

 

These are some very nice concerti, they mark a clear division from the Baroque style that seemed to hang on in Italy long after it was obsolete elsewhere.................

Gurn - thanks for the info on Gatti - just have one disc by this composer (inserted above) - basically, wind nonet & sextet w/ strings (4 wind instruments in the larger chamber work; 2 in the other w/ both having a bassoon) - think that I'll put the recording on next -    Dave

[Gurn Blanston]

Gurn - thanks for the info on Gatti - just have one disc by this composer (inserted above) - basically, wind nonet & sextet w/ strings (4 wind instruments in the larger chamber work; 2 in the other w/ both having a bassoon) - think that I'll put the recording on next -    Dave

That's looks good, Dave. Those are the same guys who do the Brandl quintets that we like so much too.

[SonicMan46]

   

I'm quite fascinated by this disk. The Op.44 Quartets by Adalbert Gyrowetz (1763-1850). Haydnesque in mood, a mature voice, witty, thoughtful musical contrasts, and thoughtful structure are all here, and more. As always with these deep, epic, late classical quartets, the slow movements are a real highlight. The A Flat Major Quartet (No.3) is a fascinating key for such a high classical style work! It sounds brooding, and questioning in nature, with a brooding trio in the minuet too. Fascinating quartet!

Above part of a post from a previous page of this thread - just received 2 additional CDs of this composer's works, i.e. Flute Quartets & Symphonies; now listening to the symphonies (and agree w/ the comments of Gurn) - the flute works are quite charming and well recorded (as expected w/ Audite) - period performances w/ the flute a copy after Grenser, Dresden (ca. 1780) made by Rudolf Tutz (1991).

Gyrowetz has a short bio HERE, which does include a listing of his works; he was quite prolific, e.g. over 60 Symphonies, over 60 String Quartets, & 30 Trios (nearly all piano).  He also wrote an autobiography in 1848 which was translated into English as a PhD dissertation (see link) - I've spent a few moments searching the web & Project Gutenberg to see if it might be available for download - no luck but probably some interesting reading - 

[Leo K.]

Gurn and Dave, I was listening to Gatti last night, for the first time, and was very moved by what I was hearing. I heard a quartetto (with oboe) and sestetto (with English horn), very beautiful works by a recording featuring the "Zefiro" group. I don't have the capacity to post an image here on my phone, but man, what a fine recording this is.

[Gurn Blanston]

Gurn and Dave, I was listening to Gatti last night, for the first time, and was very moved by what I was hearing. I heard a quartetto (with oboe) and sestetto (with English horn), very beautiful works by a recording featuring the "Zefiro" group. I don't have the capacity to post an image here on my phone, but man, what a fine recording this is.

Dadgummit, Leo, I need to find that disk. Maybe you can post some more info later when you are not on the road. I am busy at work myself, but will be around this evening. Sounds interesting!

[SonicMan46]

Dadgummit, Leo, I need to find that disk. Maybe you can post some more info later when you are not on the road. I am busy at work myself, but will be around this evening. Sounds interesting!

Yep, I was looking earlier today on Amazon USA to see 'what' was available on Gatti; well not much but the disc below is the one I'm assuming Leo is talking about (the only overlap w/ the disc I own is the sextet); however, rather pricey on the Amazon MP here - have not check any places 'across the pond' - Dave 

[Gurn Blanston]

Yep, I was looking earlier today on Amazon USA to see 'what' was available on Gatti; well not much but the disc below is the one I'm assuming Leo is talking about (the only overlap w/ the disc I own is the sextet); however, rather pricey on the Amazon MP here - have not check any places 'across the pond' - Dave 

Excellent, thanks Dave. I am a big fan of Zefiro, so I've already learned the hard lesson about their prices...   Maybe I'll skip lunches for June...

[Leo K.]

Yep, I was looking earlier today on Amazon USA to see 'what' was available on Gatti; well not much but the disc below is the one I'm assuming Leo is talking about (the only overlap w/ the disc I own is the sextet); however, rather pricey on the Amazon MP here - have not check any places 'across the pond' - Dave 

Yes, that's the disk I have! It is really a fine CD, with great performances, and Gatti's work is amazing.

[Leo K.]

Above part of a post from a previous page of this thread - just received 2 additional CDs of this composer's works, i.e. Flute Quartets & Symphonies; now listening to the symphonies (and agree w/ the comments of Gurn) - the flute works are quite charming and well recorded (as expected w/ Audite) - period performances w/ the flute a copy after Grenser, Dresden (ca. 1780) made by Rudolf Tutz (1991).

Gyrowetz has a short bio HERE, which does include a listing of his works; he was quite prolific, e.g. over 60 Symphonies, over 60 String Quartets, & 30 Trios (nearly all piano).  He also wrote an autobiography in 1848 which was translated into English as a PhD dissertation (see link) - I've spent a few moments searching the web & Project Gutenberg to see if it might be available for download - no luck but probably some interesting reading - 

Hey, thanks for that link! Also, thanks for the thoughts in the other recordings, of which I wasn't aware of.

It sure would be nice to get my hands on his audiobiography

[Leo K.]

Boely, Alexandre (1785-1858) - Chamber Music w/ Quatuor Mosaiques & Ensemble Baroque de Limoges, Christophe Coin - a number of pages back Leo brought up this French composer in a discussion of his keyboard works w/ Schornsheim - a disc that I acquired immediately and enjoy; my first experience w/ Boely - a brief Wiki bio HERE - 

Well, I decided to pick up the chamber music disc added above w/ an excellent group of performers; includes a variety of works from trios (on organ), string quartet, & sextet - beautifully written music that is well performed and w/ great sound!  Unfortunately, no liner notes are available; instead there is a 24-page PDF file (too large to attach; website - www.ebl-laborie.com/boely.pdf) - of no use to me because it is all in French but looks like an excellent discussion of not only the works but the performers and their instruments - if anyone out there has a good French-English PDF translation program, I'd appreciate a try; not sure how to get it back on except to split the PDF file into several parts? - thanks. 

Hey man, I am very happy you like this composer. I love his keyboard music and I will have to get that chamber music disk!

[SonicMan46]

Hey, thanks for that link! Also, thanks for the thoughts in the other recordings, of which I wasn't aware of.

It sure would be nice to get my hands on his audiobiography

Hi Leo - yes, below is a quote at the end of the Wiki article on Gyrowetz - googled like mad on Renne Anna Illa to see if I could find an e-mail address to send her a message; no luck but others are welcomed to give it a try - would be of great interest!

The 'flute quartets' are certainly worth obtaining - just excellent and varied!  Symphonies good too!    Dave

Autobiography written in 1848, published by Alfred Einstein in 1915. Czech translation Vlastní životopis Vojtěcha Jírovce by František Bartoš published in 1940 by František Topič. Translated into English and edited by Renee Anna Illa, as Ph. D. dissertation, Kent State University.