Gurn's Classical Corner

[DavidW]

I feel tempted by that cd... but uh I still haven't finished the baryton set in the Haydn edition...

[Gurn Blanston]

I feel tempted by that cd... but uh I still haven't finished the baryton set in the Haydn edition...

  Man, you are so far behind the times!      I've only been through the entire set once, although I have listened to various pieces several times each. I already had some favorites from the John Hsu disks.



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Now playing:
L'Archibudelli - Bia 153 Op 9 Trios (3) for Strings #2 in D 4th mvmt - Rondo: Allegro

[DavidW]

Well I did listen to the octets a few times and other divertimenti... but the rest just a few cds... I gotta remedy that.

[Gurn Blanston]

Well I did listen to the octets a few times and other divertimenti... but the rest just a few cds... I gotta remedy that.

Ah, went right for the good stuff!  As it happens, I have 3 versions of the octets. I like 'em. 0:)



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Now playing:
L'Archibudelli - Bia 153 Op 9 Trios (3) for Strings (HIP) #3 in c 2nd mvmt - Adagio con espressione

[SonicMan46]

  (please excuse my chuckle). First timer I heard a baryton I thought it was a duet between a cello and a guitar. My reading about it had said that the backside strings played sympathetically, but in fact this player was picking them (with his thumb?). And it sounded like a guitar. Anyway, my surmise it that you got taken in precisely the same way I did. Haydn very rarely wrote any pizzicato because the prince wasn't up for it. It will be nice to hear this Abel for a different take on the instrument.

BTW, here is a very fine disk of Abel's solo gamba works.

Well, I ordered the Abel disc on baryton from the link, i.e. Arkiv Music, and the description of the performer(s) is shown below, so I assumed that these were 'solo' works w/ use of the sympathetic strings on the instrument.  I have the disc pictured by Gurn above - Abel's writing is just virtuosic and well performed by Heinrich - I suspect the baryton compositions will be of the same quality (and also well done from Leon's description!).   Dave 

Work(s) by Karl Friedrich Abel
Performer:  Philippe Foulon (Baryton)

[chasmaniac]

I can't keep up with you guys! By the time I'm ready to post something, you're all 3 topics ahead!

Re. Gyrowetz fours, I've wanted that disc for some time, but I think I'l wait till it's rereleased on Helios, which it's bound to be.

Re. Lickl fours, this is fine Viennese chamber played with energy and recorded nice and dry.  Good stuff.

Re. Wolfl fours, the Authentic disc is good, but there's one at least as good on Caro Mitis (32006), which label also has a disc with 2 of his symphonies and a duet for cello and fortepiano (22005). Thoroughly enjoyable.

Now, what's all this about the baryton?

[SonicMan46]

Now, what's all this about the baryton?

LOL!    Concerning the baryton, take a look in the 'Old Musical Instrument' thread HERE (reply #30) - there is also discussion scattered in the Haydn threads and possibly in this thread!   

[chasmaniac]

LOL!    Concerning the baryton, take a look in the 'Old Musical Instrument' thread HERE (reply #30) - there is also discussion scattered in the Haydn threads and possibly in this thread!   

Well, I was being nice, in the old meaning of the word. I know what a baryton is. I have the Geringas Trio's recording of Haydn baryton trios on CPO 9990942. The music is typical of early Haydn, much like his conventional string trios, and to some degree dumbed down so the Duke or Count or whatever he was could play them. The instrument itself recalls to me the sound of folk music played on acoustic guitar and string bass, a thump-echo-overtone sort of thing.

[Gurn Blanston]

Well, I was being nice, in the old meaning of the word. I know what a baryton is. I have the Geringas Trio's recording of Haydn baryton trios on CPO 9990942. The music is typical of early Haydn, much like his conventional string trios, and to some degree dumbed down so the Duke or Count or whatever he was could play them. The instrument itself recalls to me the sound of folk music played on acoustic guitar and string bass, a thump-echo-overtone sort of thing.

What string trio recordings do you have, Chas? 

[chasmaniac]

What string trio recordings do you have, Chas? 

All six volumes of the Divertimentos for String Trio by the Vienna Philharmonia Trio on Camerata. Some volumes might still be in print, but at least some and probably most are deleted now. They look like this:

[chasmaniac]

Re: Baryton

Chazz, I think you are being unfair to the instrument, and if you would like to invest a small amount in a reappraisal effort, I'd suggest going for the Abel disc discussed above which is for solo baryton, but played far beyond the limited capacity you described.

I have no wish to besmirch the baryton (or folk music!). The Abel is now on my look-for list.

[Gurn Blanston]

All six volumes of the Divertimentos for String Trio by the Vienna Philharmonia Trio on Camerata. Some volumes might still be in print, but at least some and probably most are deleted now. They look like this:

Ah. I have the first 4 disks in that series (5 & 6 are unattainable at this point), and also the 2 disks by Camerata Berolinensis on period instruments.

I don't find them to be overly simplistic, nor in any way 'practice' for his string quartets (I know you didn't say that, though it has certainly been said). Actually they have an abundance of musical ideas and express them well. Bearing in mind, of course, that they have no precedent to build on. I wish they were more easily attainable. As it turned out, they were the last piece in the Haydn puzzle for me!   

[chasmaniac]

I don't find them to be overly simplistic, nor in any way 'practice' for his string quartets (I know you didn't say that, though it has certainly been said). Actually they have an abundance of musical ideas and express them well. Bearing in mind, of course, that they have no precedent to build on. I wish they were more easily attainable. As it turned out, they were the last piece in the Haydn puzzle for me!   

You're preachin' to the choir, brother! Here's a little review of volume 4 from David Hurwitz:

As with previous volumes in this series, these almost completely unfamiliar early Haydn works (though very popular in their day) are a constant source of pleasure as well as remarkable formal variety. No. 19, for example, follows the pattern Allegro/Minuet/Presto, and the music has a freshness and rhythmic interest (in the finale) that will have you thinking of Stravinsky's Pulcinella. No. 22 starts with a gorgeous Adagio Siciliano, followed by an Allegro and a concluding Minuet. The last two works on the disc, Nos. 23 and 24, are two-movement works (Moderato-Minuet), possibly intended for students, but no less attractive for that.

The only quibble I have with these performances is that the minuets could be taken somewhat quicker, or at least with perhaps a sharper rhythmic profile. That aside, the playing of the Viennese musicians leaves very little to be desired. Slow movements are particularly beautiful, warm and singing, while the engineering is very natural and unobtrusive. These Japanese discs are difficult to find now outside of Japan, but if you come across them they deserve serious consideration. [5/11/2009]

[chasmaniac]

On the subject of obscure Haydn, what do people think of the folksong arrangements on Brilliant (by Anderson, MacDougall and the Haydn Trio Eisenstadt)?

[Gurn Blanston]

I think they are fantastic.

Me too. If I am going to listen to traditional folk tunes, I'd as soon hear them like that. I also have all the ones that Beethoven did for Thomson. They are quite interesting too, although only 7 disks worth and not 18!

[Gurn Blanston]

Hmmm, I had no idea that Beethoven got into the act as well.      Are they still available?   Brilliant, too?

EDIT: found them - DG

[asin]B0002IRY0E[/asin]

Yes, that is what I have. They are very nicely done. I don't know if there are any other recordings of the entire, since I believe that these are the same performances that DG used in the Complete Beethoven Edition.

Hummel was another who set a whole lot of these, and Neukomm (who of course did a few in Haydn's name) also did some on his own. There is also one other that I will remember as soon as I hit the "Post" button... 

[karlhenning]

That's the castle used in the last scene of Monty Python and the Holy Grail, isn't it?

[Gurn Blanston]

That's the castle used in the last scene of Monty Python and the Holy Grail, isn't it?

ARTHUR:  The Castle Aggh.  Our quest is at an end!  God be praised!
      Almighty God, we thank Thee that Thou hast [something] safe
      [something] the most-
      [twong  baaaa]
      Jesus Christ!
  GUARD:  'Allo, daffy English kaniggets and Monsieur Arthur-King, who
      is afraid of a duck, you know!  So, we French fellows out-wit you a
      second time!
  ARTHUR:  How dare you profane this place with your presence!?  I command
      you, in the name of the Knights of Camelot, to open the doors of this
      sacred castle, to which God himself has guided us!
  GUARD:  How you English say, I one more time-a unclog my nose in your
      direction, sons of a window-dresser!  So, you think you could
      out-clever us French folk with your silly knees-bent running about
      advancing behavior! I wave my private parts at your aunties, you
      heaving lot of second-hand electric donkey bottom biters.
  ARTHUR:  In the name of the Lord, we demand entrance to this sacred
      castle!
  GUARD:  No chance, English bedwetting types.  I burst my pimples at you
      and call your daughter an unrequested silly thing.  You tiny-brained
      wipers of other people's bottoms!

That castle?

[karlhenning]

The same!

[chasmaniac]

I think they are fantastic.

I did up a little anthology of my favourites tracks, as follows.
Here Awa is a peerless masterpiece, dammit! or so say I.

1. Thro' the Woods, Laddie
2. Down the Burn, Davie
3. The Sutor's Daughter
4. Peggy, I Must Love Thee
5. The Minstrel
6. Muirland Willie
7. The Soldier Laddie
8. Mary's Dream
9. Maggie Lauder
10. Ay Waking, O!
11. Here Awa There Awa
12. What Ails This Heart of Mine
13. The Border Widow's Lament
14. My Nanie
15. The Parson Boasts of Mild Ale
16. Johny Macgill
17. New Year's Gift
18. The Poor Pedlar
19. The Song of the Old Man of the Wood
20. Adieu to My Juvenile Days
21. Venture Gwen