Gurn's Classical Corner

[chasmaniac]

Ah, I'm jealous. I've been looking about for that disk for quite some time, ever since I heard CK playing Rosetti. Kraus' symphonies ARE good, and there is likely not a better band for them than Concerto Köln. Time to get back on that track for shopping.

These are the same recordings, I think, rereleased at budget price:

[asin]B002JP9HOY[/asin]

[Gurn Blanston]

A couple of AMP sellers are offering it new for < $11.00.

Good to know that I am not alone in admiring Kraus.

Yes, I see that. And it is not just one or two sellers either. a few years ago if it was available at all, one had to sell one's first-born male child. That was too biblical for me...

[Gurn Blanston]

These are the same recordings, I think, rereleased at budget price:

[asin]B002JP9HOY[/asin]

That's great, I threw it in my basket. Now, if they would just do the same with their 2 Rosetti disks. Of course, they were on Teldec rather than Capriccio, so I guess we can't expect that soon...

[chasmaniac]

That's great, I threw it in my basket. Now, if they would just do the same with their 2 Rosetti disks. Of course, they were on Teldec rather than Capriccio, so I guess we can't expect that soon...

Glad to help! I have this set myself, but bought in the middle of a splurge and have no memory of my one listen. Clearly, I need to do some catching up! 

[Leon]

These are the same recordings, I think, rereleased at budget price:

[asin]B002JP9HOY[/asin]

I wish I had known about that two-fer before I got the older issue.  Ah, well, such is life.

[SonicMan46]

HEY - looks like the 'image' link option is back - great!   

Boy, the 2-CD set of Kraus Symphonies has peaked my interest, but I already own the 4 Naxos discs (first one shown below) of these works w/ Sundkvist & the Swedish Chamber Orch - OH, decisions to be made!  Dave

[Leo K.]

HEY - looks like the 'image' link option is back - great!   

Boy, the 2-CD set of Kraus Symphonies has peaked my interest, but I already own the 4 Naxos discs (first one shown below) of these works w/ Sundkvist & the Swedish Chamber Orch - OH, decisions to be made!  Dave

Kraus's symphonies are so full of wonders. I still need to get disk 3 of the naxos set, but this series is one of my favorite symphonic cycles ever!

[Leo K.]

I noticed a strange thing recently while listening to the F major symphony by Cambini (1746-1825) on this disk:



It sounded really familiar, in fact, in sounded just like Kraus's F Major symphony found on volume 4 of the naxos series!



So, I'm comparing them now, and sure enough it's the same symphony! Who wrote it?!? Perhaps, this F major symphony has been attributed to both Cambini and Kraus.

[Leo K.]

Aha, the plot thickens, it turns out the E Minor Symphony on the Cambini disk , mentioned above:



...has also been attributed to Kraus as described on the Artaria website,:

http://www.artaria.com/SystemLink_ProductAboutThisWork_270

The Symphony in E minor (VB 141) is one of three works in this genre where the question of authorship has, until recently, been somewhat ambiguous. Two sources exist for the work, one of which, a set of manuscript parts in the Thurn und Taxis library in Regensburg, is attributed to Kraus, and the other, the second of a set of three symphonies published in parts by the Parisian publisher Boyer, names Giuseppe Cambini as its author. The question of attribution remained open until 1971 when musicologist Walter Lebermann began to analyze and compare the work with verified symphonies by both composers. His conclusion in 1982 was that the symphony was a work by Kraus based upon comparative stylistic evidence. Since this time further stylistic and source critical analysis has been done which solidifies Kraus's claim to authorship. First, it is now known that the Regensburg parts, under signature Kraus 1, are in the hand of a local copyist active there during the 1780s, and that analysis of the manuscript itself shows it to have been copied sometime between 1783 and 1786, a period during which Kraus visited the Thurn und Taxis court. Second, the edition attributed to Cambini, which was published later in 1787, exhibits several peculiarities that cast strong suspicion on the question of authorship. Two of the three symphonies exist elsewhere as the works of other composers—the Kraus attribution and the third Symphony in D major which also exists in Regensburg under the name of French violinist Prosper-Didier Deshayes. There is some paleographical evidence that the name on the titlepage, "J. Cambini" (rather than the usual "G. Cambini"), is a substitution, although the original engraved name cannot now be read.Moreover, Boyer was a publisher who was not associated with Cambini, who was an immensely popular composer of sinfonia concertantes, had a great following at the Concerts Spirituels, and who published actively with Imbault and others. Finally, an indepth stylistic analysis shows complete correspondence musically with Kraus's symphonies, but only the remotest similarity with authentic Cambini symphonies and concertantes. In short, virtually all of the source critical and stylistic evidence speaks for Kraus's authorship, while there is little to connect the work in any logical or solid way to the popular Italian composer.
A date for the work is a matter of some conjecture, since Kraus visited both Regensburg and Paris during his grand tour 1782-1786. There is, however, some circumstantial evidence that allows a reasonable chronology to be suggested. Pater Alexander Keck, one of the composer's childhood teachers, noted in a letter to Alois Kraus dated 4 October 1800 that he remembered a visit to the new family home in Amorbach in December of 1782, specifically: "At home [Kraus] compiled a symphony that he took with him in score, because it was not finished." In March of 1783 he arrived for a week-long visit to Regensburg, where he was feted royally as an honored guest, including daily concerts by the famed Kapelle. It would not be too far fetched to suggest that, in return for the hospitality, he finished off this work and presented it to the court as a token of his gratitude. This would explain the parts copied by a local scribe, as well as the addition of a flute to the final movement, a reasonable sort of conclusion to an unfinished composition. The autograph, however, remained in his possession until Paris, where Pater Roman Hoffstetter reported that Kraus had presented "several pretty and brilliant symphonies" for publication. The final portion of this tale is that Boyer, knowing that the unknown Kraus would not sell, substituted the better-known Cambini as author, an entirely plausible suggestion given the lack of copyright regulations and the fact that Kraus had already left Paris by that time and thus could not mount a protest.

This edition is based largely upon the Regensburg parts, corrected and compared with the Boyer edition. Since neither source can be considered "authentic" in the strictest sense and therefore lack Kraus's usual precise detail, articulation, dynamics, and phrasing have been regularised according to parallel passages. Only in one passage, bar 38 of the second movement, is there some indication that the different slurring stems from the composer himself, as it is present in both sources. Ambiguous phrases and obvious errors have been tacitly corrected. Of particular interest is the addition of a flute only in the final movement. While the reasons for this have been suggested above, one should not attempt to perform it colla parte in the other movements. On the other hand, it seems permissible to add a bassoon to the bass line for reinforcement according to eighteenth century performance practice.

Bertil van Boer

The F major symphony is a work presumbly also attributed to both Cambini and Kraus, with recent scholarship weighing in on Kraus as the author.



Well, I saw this on the All Music website regarding the Cambini Symphonie disk:

Giuseppe Maria Cambini  Sinfonia in E minor (Book 2/2; probably by J.M. Kraus)
Giuseppe Maria Cambini  Sinfonia in F major (Book 2/1; probably by J.M. Kraus)
Giuseppe Maria Cambini  Sinfonia concertante No. 12 for 2 violins and orchestra in C minor 1998 22:44
Giuseppe Maria Cambini  Sinfonia concertante No. 5 for oboe, bassoon, and orchestra in B flat major

[Elgarian]

This may not be the thread in which to pose my query, and yet I just have this gut feeling that it might be. (If I'm wrong, feel free to tell me to go away.)

Can anyone recommend a HIP box of Mendelssohn's chamber music to get me started? It could be a 'complete chamber music' set; a 'complete Quartets' set - whatever. I'm starting from nowhere - seriously nowhere - and I want a collection that I can dip into at whim. There seem to be several Brilliant sets, but I presume they're not HIP? (Are they any good, even so?)

[Gurn Blanston]

This may not be the thread in which to pose my query, and yet I just have this gut feeling that it might be. (If I'm wrong, feel free to tell me to go away.)

Can anyone recommend a HIP box of Mendelssohn's chamber music to get me started? It could be a 'complete chamber music' set; a 'complete Quartets' set - whatever. I'm starting from nowhere - seriously nowhere - and I want a collection that I can dip into at whim. There seem to be several Brilliant sets, but I presume they're not HIP? (Are they any good, even so?)

I stole this post out of the "Romantics in Period Performance" thread     The is the implication in this one that there is at least 1 more there specifically on Mendelssohn, perhaps it has more chambery stuff.

Well done!!!  I see a number of omissions, however... Let me add a few...













There does seem to be a relatively large amount of period Mendelssohn out there; for that I am very thankful! 

[Elgarian]

I stole this post out of the "Romantics in Period Performance" thread     The is the implication in this one that there is at least 1 more there specifically on Mendelssohn, perhaps it has more chambery stuff.

Thanks Gurn - you did better than I could manage (I drew a blank on the Period Romantics thread, which is why I came here. But then, my forum searching skills are not good.) And you're right. Antoine provided a list of Mendelssohn period chamber works thus:

Cpte. Vn.&Fpn. Sons. [1825-1839] / T. Kiriyama & K. Ogura / ALM Records ALCD-1056
Cpte. Vc.&Fpn. Sons. & Var. [1829-1843] / C. Coin & P. Cohen / Decca 430245
Cpte. Fpn. Trios [1839-1845] / Voces Intimae / Symphonia SY02199
Cpte. Str. Qts. [Op.12,13,posth., 1823-1827; Op.44-1,2, 1838; Op.44-3,80, 1847] /
      Eroica Quartet / Harmonia Mundi HMU907245; HMU907287; HMU907288
Cpte. Str. Qnts. [#1, 1826; #2, 1845] / L'Archibudelli / Sony SK60766
Cpte. Wind & Fpn. Qts. [Konzertstücke 1 & 2, 1832/3], 1 Cl. Son. [1824], &
      8 Div. Fpn. Works / R. Burnett et al. / Amon Ra 38

A preliminary skirmish suggests that some of these may be unobtainable now, sadly.

[Leo K.]

I'm starting out with this fine disk this morning...Boccherini divertimenti (or sextets), all with flute and strings. This recording has great sound by the way! Very natural! The music is charming but also has a streak of deep thought behind it.

A very fine listen after a big move to a new house for me! Relaxing, thoughtful, and meaningful.

[SonicMan46]

 

I'm starting out with this fine disk this morning...Boccherini divertimenti (or sextets), all with flute and strings. This recording has great sound by the way! Very natural! The music is charming but also has a streak of deep thought behind it.

A very fine listen after a big move to a new house for me! Relaxing, thoughtful, and meaningful.

Hi Leo - BOY, I have a lot of Boccherini, including the 10-CD box from Capriccio (believe a great BRO bargain a number of years ago - could not find it there today unfortunately); love virtually all of the discs in that collection (except the Guitar Quintets, which I have in other versions) -

Not sure that the box is available at the moment, but would be a good 'starter' set for anyone wanting to get into this composer - a listing of the discs and their works, plus a review on MusicWeb HERE - Dave

[Leo K.]

Hi Leo - BOY, I have a lot of Boccherini, including the 10-CD box from Capriccio (believe a great BRO bargain a number of years ago - could not find it there today unfortunately); love virtually all of the discs in that collection (except the Guitar Quintets, which I have in other versions) -

Not sure that the box is available at the moment, but would be a good 'starter' set for anyone wanting to get into this composer - a listing of the discs and their works, plus a review on MusicWeb HERE - Dave

I hope to find that box someday, as it sounds like a great set, and if everything sounds as good as the divertmenti disk, I've got to check it out! Thanks for the link too 

[Gurn Blanston]

Hey, Leo, good to see you settled in again. I hate the disruption of moving, even when it's moving up!

That's a great disk. I have that same box as Dave has, it is a start to a collection. Or addition either. Nice variety so you get familiar with the whole Boccherini. I may even put Haydn on a short holiday and go on a Boccherini  spree. Nice change of pace.



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Now playing:
La Petite Bande; Sigiswald Kuijken - Hob 01_097 Symphony in C 4th mvmt - Finale: Spiritoso

[Antoine Marchand]

A preliminary skirmish suggests that some of these may be unobtainable now, sadly.

Here some additional HIP Mendelssohn, I hope more easily available: 

[Elgarian]

Here some additional HIP Mendelssohn, I hope more easily available: 

Antoine, you are a gentleman and a scholar, and I salute you. Just what I needed. Thank you.

[Antoine Marchand]

Hey, Gurn, your Homero's quote recalls this funny quote by Bertrand Russell:

My own view on religion is that of Lucretius. I regard it as a disease born of fear and as a source of untold misery to the human race. I cannot, however, deny that it has made some contributions to civilization. It helped in early days to fix the calendar, and it caused Egyptian priests to chronicle eclipses with such care that in time they became able to predict them. These two services I am prepared to acknowledge, but I do not know of any others.

It's from an essay titled "Has Religion Made Useful Contributions to Civilization?". It's usually included as a part of the collection Why am I not a Christian? I think you would enjoy its reading, I mean if you have not read it already.

[Antoine Marchand]

Antoine, you are a gentleman and a scholar, and I salute you. Just what I needed. Thank you.

You're too much generous, Elgarian. It's a pleasure to help people to discover new things, especially when I usually share their tastes and opinions.