Gurn's Classical Corner

[clavichorder]

Another name I'd like to mention, though it may not be exactly at the heart of the repertoire that Gurn's classical corner is about, is Sebastian De Albero.  A younger Spanish contemporary of Domenico Scarlatti, who outlived him, Albero's sonatas are less virtuosic but sometimes very interestingly dissonant and quirkier yet than your usual Scarlatti.  The only recordings available in the Naxos Music Library are of his set of 30 sonatas, but Albero wrote some more works that are of an interesting form, a ricercar, fugue, and sonata.  Albero's ricercar is more or less a strange unmeasured piece that is hard to interpret, but an educated performer can do, though there will be much variation, his fugue's are interesting thematically but very long and thorny in the situations they get themselves into; but the sonatas of these groupings are somewhat more developed than the 30 sonatas from before, more like Scarlatti perhaps. 



My favorite sonatas on this disc are number's 4, 6, and 8.  Albero had really nice ideas and was not afraid to be very harmonically bold.  A very fun and rewarding composer to know and to play.

Another shameless plug for Albero.  These works hold up. 

[San Antone]

Been enjoying this today

[asin]B00004TGB5[/asin]

Krommer - Clarinet Quartets, No. 21 (1802), 82 & 83 (1816)

[SonicMan46]

Been enjoying this today

   

Krommer - Clarinet Quartets, No. 21 (1802), 82 & 83 (1816)

Hi Sanantone - I have the 2-CD set w/ Klöcker (adds Op. 69 & a posthumous work) on a modern clarinet - just curious if you know the type of instrument used in the Brunner recording that you showed?  Also, seems to be another interesting CD of other Krommer chamber works - Dave

[San Antone]

Hi Sanantone - I have the 2-CD set w/ Klöcker (adds Op. 69 & a posthumous work) on a modern clarinet - just curious if you know the type of instrument used in the Brunner recording that you showed?  Also, seems to be another interesting CD of other Krommer chamber works - Dave

I do not know, but am assuming it is a modern clarinet.

[SonicMan46]

I do not know, but am assuming it is a modern clarinet.

I found several reviews of the two CDs w/ Brunner - no mention was made about a period clarinet (which I do love!), so assume a MI - however, both of those discs received superb comments and the reviewer preferred them over the Klöcker performances - might have to change allegiance?  Dave

[Gurn Blanston]

I found several reviews of the two CDs w/ Brunner - no mention was made about a period clarinet (which I do love!), so assume a MI - however, both of those discs received superb comments and the reviewer preferred them over the Klöcker performances - might have to change allegiance?  Dave

I have the one with the darker blue cover. It is with the Amati Quartet, so certainly MI. I don't have the Klöcker for comparison, but I can sya this disk is uniformly excellent.

[SonicMan46]

I have the one with the darker blue cover. It is with the Amati Quartet, so certainly MI. I don't have the Klöcker for comparison, but I can sya this disk is uniformly excellent.

Hey Gurn - I decided to order both of the Brunner CDs of Krommer's clarinet chamber works and will cull out the Klöcker from my collection - the comments on Fanfare were just too convincing - Dave

[Florestan]

This Krommer disc is very good, too.

[SonicMan46]

This Krommer disc is very good, too.

 

Krommer's wind pieces for larger ensembles is quite enjoyable - I have three discs, a couple on Naxos and the one above on Accent w/ the wonderful period group Amphion Wind Octet, probably the favorite in my collection - Dave

[Gurn Blanston]

This Krommer disc is very good, too.

I have what Dave has here; curious, is that Brilliant one also 3 disks? IOW, is it the complete wind partitas? Nice music!

[Florestan]

I have what Dave has here; curious, is that Brilliant one also 3 disks? IOW, is it the complete wind partitas? Nice music!

Unfortunately it´s one single disc, featuring (in order) op. 57, 79, 67 and 69. I am very pleased with the performance and the total time (78:11) is not bad either.

Speaking of harmoniemusik, second to the nec plus ultra of Gran Partita my favorite is KV 375. Please recommend me some others besides Mozart and Krommer.

[Gurn Blanston]

Unfortunately it´s one single disc, featuring (in order) op. 57, 79, 67 and 69. I am very pleased with the performance and the total time (78:11) is not bad either.

Speaking of harmoniemusik, second to the nec plus ultra of Gran Partita my favorite is KV 375. Please recommend me some others besides Mozart and Krommer.

Of course, just famous people, you have Beethoven's Op 103 Octet, which is a Harmonie.

But then you have some less famous, but only because they are specialists. One is this one:

[asin]B00365QSH0[/asin]

Kraus has an opera called Amphitryon  which was played on this disk (doesn't look available here anymore):

[asin]B00CH8BSZO[/asin]


I got this long ago and it is very nice.

There are others, I'm just not where I can look them over to make suggestions. Tonight from home, if I can remember.

[kishnevi]

Cross post.  Should be of interest here.
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,21492.msg870452.html#msg870452

[Ken B]

Unfortunately it´s one single disc, featuring (in order) op. 57, 79, 67 and 69. I am very pleased with the performance and the total time (78:11) is not bad either.

Speaking of harmoniemusik, second to the nec plus ultra of Gran Partita my favorite is KV 375. Please recommend me some others besides Mozart and Krommer.

Sabine Meyer has a box set out. Highly recommnded. Even for the semmelweiss-challenged! 
Danzi has good stuff. Myslivicek. R Strauss's wind band stuff.

[telemann]

I am a newcomer to this site but welcome its informed and committed discussion of those eternal music eras, the baroque and classical. I'm a big admirer of Haydn too - and never fail to marvel over how an Austrian farm boy could reach his level of sophistication in composition.

I once played viola in a civic orchestra on the West coast of Florida which had a mix of professional and amateur players. We were first given Haydn's 90th Symphony to play with numerous rehearsal options, but it was so difficult that the conductor had to replace it with Bizet's L'Arlesienne Suite. Imagine, musicians of Haydn's time  had to play newly composed music of that caliber with little or no rehearsal!

I have to assume that Haydn's patrons, the Eszterhazys were sophisticated people as were the guests for whom the court orchestra performed. It's been pointed out by Alexis de Tocqueville, the writer of the classical book on American democracy, that before his time European aristocracy in general was intellectually advanced. In their formal sobriquets the words "Serene Majesty" connoted the idea that power and violence were in the past and enlightenment was to be cultivated.

So in this time of bloodshed and turmoil, it's especially rewarding to enjoy both the inspirations and preferred philosophical directions of humankind in the 18th Century.

Regarding texts on music I highly respect Charles Rosen's skills, though not his philosophy. He has written openly that the nonprofessional or inexperienced musical public is not qualified to judge the value of music. That's why I'm a reform advocate. The wisdom of professionals has extolled John Cage and Pierre Boulez and their peers. I think many of us will agree that music of more lasting value was produced when even the most gifted musicians like Mozart were constrained to providing enjoyment and stimulation rather than just following their muse or writing for peer academics.

Mozart once wrote his father that his music had two levels, a more superficial one for entertainment, and a deeper one for connoisseurs. If he had lived in the later 20th Century he might have gone off the deep end too! I don't think Haydn took that attitude, Gurn may be able to affirm that he was deeply committed to providing musical inspiration to people and felt rewarded when he did so.

As you can tell, I'm  an audience-oriented classical advocate for reform of the musical establishment. My user name indicates that George Philipp Telemann has become my favorite composer for reasons I might mention in a future post. I'm also a great fan of both Stamitz's.

Cordial regards

[SonicMan46]

I am a newcomer to this site but welcome its informed and committed discussion of those eternal music eras, the baroque and classical. I'm a big admirer of Haydn too - and never fail to marvel over how an Austrian farm boy could reach his level of sophistication in composition.
.....................
As you can tell, I'm  an audience-oriented classical advocate for reform of the musical establishment. My user name indicates that George Philipp Telemann has become my favorite composer for reasons I might mention in a future post. I'm also a great fan of both Stamitz's.

Hello & welcome Telemann - thanks for the comments - as you may already know, we do have a Telemann thread HERE which deserves more attention, but was recently 'bumped' w/ some interesting activity, so take a look there and please post.  Dave

[Gurn Blanston]

I am a newcomer to this site but welcome its informed and committed discussion of those eternal music eras, the baroque and classical. I'm a big admirer of Haydn too - and never fail to marvel over how an Austrian farm boy could reach his level of sophistication in composition.

I once played viola in a civic orchestra on the West coast of Florida which had a mix of professional and amateur players. We were first given Haydn's 90th Symphony to play with numerous rehearsal options, but it was so difficult that the conductor had to replace it with Bizet's L'Arlesienne Suite. Imagine, musicians of Haydn's time  had to play newly composed music of that caliber with little or no rehearsal!

I have to assume that Haydn's patrons, the Eszterhazys were sophisticated people as were the guests for whom the court orchestra performed. It's been pointed out by Alexis de Tocqueville, the writer of the classical book on American democracy, that before his time European aristocracy in general was intellectually advanced. In their formal sobriquets the words "Serene Majesty" connoted the idea that power and violence were in the past and enlightenment was to be cultivated.

So in this time of bloodshed and turmoil, it's especially rewarding to enjoy both the inspirations and preferred philosophical directions of humankind in the 18th Century.

Regarding texts on music I highly respect Charles Rosen's skills, though not his philosophy. He has written openly that the nonprofessional or inexperienced musical public is not qualified to judge the value of music. That's why I'm a reform advocate. The wisdom of professionals has extolled John Cage and Pierre Boulez and their peers. I think many of us will agree that music of more lasting value was produced when even the most gifted musicians like Mozart were constrained to providing enjoyment and stimulation rather than just following their muse or writing for peer academics.

Mozart once wrote his father that his music had two levels, a more superficial one for entertainment, and a deeper one for connoisseurs. If he had lived in the later 20th Century he might have gone off the deep end too! I don't think Haydn took that attitude, Gurn may be able to affirm that he was deeply committed to providing musical inspiration to people and felt rewarded when he did so.

As you can tell, I'm  an audience-oriented classical advocate for reform of the musical establishment. My user name indicates that George Philipp Telemann has become my favorite composer for reasons I might mention in a future post. I'm also a great fan of both Stamitz's.

Cordial regards

Greeting, Herr Telemann! It's a pleasure to have you visit us; hope you decide to settle down here, we need more historians.   

Serene Majesty, Dread Lord! Always liked Dread Lord. There is no doubt whatsoever, as we have discssed here from time to time, that one such as I, for example, would never have heard any of this music in its own place and time. Unless I was busy washing windows on the outside, or serving beverages to the Dread Lords.

Haydn's own orchestra was very likely an exception to the rule about not having practice time; he specifies ,for example, in the cover letter for the Applausus Cantata that it must be practiced fully, at least three or four times  (Step 9 in the letter here: Applausus).  I would believe he had more practice than that with his own group, sice it seems like a minimum he is recommending.

My personal belief is that just because someone is qualified to dissect and explain the workings of a piece of music, it doesn't follow that he/she is therefore qualified to pass judgement on its quality as work of art. I won't say more because I tend to get carried away by the topic.   

I'm not sure it is an attitude, the way we use the word today, which is slightly pejorative. Haydn was very well aware of the dichotomy between, as CPE Bach put it, Kenner und Liebhaber. He scratched out a big section of Symphony 42 and wrote in the margin "for too learned ears", for example. I sincerely believe that Haydn knew he was writing for entertainment, whether it was a fugue or a song, a Mass or opera, or a keyboard trio or a solo variation. This was his main goal, and following 'rules of composition' was only important to him insofar as they had been proved to be a reliable way to compose a cogent, entertaining piece. If this had been proved to him as false, he would have done it differently. There is no single act or document which demonstrates this, but if you read in depth about his life, little bits and pieces said and done will add up to an irrefutable argument in favor of this.

I am also a fan of both Stamitz's, and various others in that tme frame. I also think Telemann is vastly underrated today, although this was not always the case. I think he, like Haydn to a lesser extent, suffers from having an oeuvre so large it is difficult to get a grip on. Everything I have heard so far I have enjoyed, though. 

Cheers,

[San Antone]

I am a newcomer to this site but welcome its informed and committed discussion of those eternal music eras, the baroque and classical. I'm a big admirer of Haydn too - and never fail to marvel over how an Austrian farm boy could reach his level of sophistication in composition.

Regarding texts on music I highly respect Charles Rosen's skills, though not his philosophy. He has written openly that the nonprofessional or inexperienced musical public is not qualified to judge the value of music. That's why I'm a reform advocate. The wisdom of professionals has extolled John Cage and Pierre Boulez and their peers. I think many of us will agree that music of more lasting value was produced when even the most gifted musicians like Mozart were constrained to providing enjoyment and stimulation rather than just following their muse or writing for peer academics.

Cordial regards

Welcome to the forum.  We share an abiding interest in the Classical period and the music, especially Haydn.  Haydn, Mozart and some of the lesser known composers between 1750-1830 take up a significant amount of linear feet on my shelves.  Are you familiar with the books on this period by Donald Heartz?  In my opinion they are the best historical accounts of this period and the music and personalities.  However, they are hard to find at a reasonable price.  They are usually available from a good library.

Having said all that, I most emphatically do not share you opinion bolded above.  I consider John Cage the most important composer of the 20th century, and Pierre Boulez' music extremely fine.

Again, welcome and I hope you contribute more to this thread and the other threads devoted to composers from the period.

[EigenUser]

I am a newcomer to this site but welcome its informed and committed discussion of those eternal music eras, the baroque and classical. I'm a big admirer of Haydn too - and never fail to marvel over how an Austrian farm boy could reach his level of sophistication in composition.

I once played viola in a civic orchestra on the West coast of Florida which had a mix of professional and amateur players. We were first given Haydn's 90th Symphony to play with numerous rehearsal options, but it was so difficult that the conductor had to replace it with Bizet's L'Arlesienne Suite. Imagine, musicians of Haydn's time  had to play newly composed music of that caliber with little or no rehearsal!

I have to assume that Haydn's patrons, the Eszterhazys were sophisticated people as were the guests for whom the court orchestra performed. It's been pointed out by Alexis de Tocqueville, the writer of the classical book on American democracy, that before his time European aristocracy in general was intellectually advanced. In their formal sobriquets the words "Serene Majesty" connoted the idea that power and violence were in the past and enlightenment was to be cultivated.

So in this time of bloodshed and turmoil, it's especially rewarding to enjoy both the inspirations and preferred philosophical directions of humankind in the 18th Century.

Regarding texts on music I highly respect Charles Rosen's skills, though not his philosophy. He has written openly that the nonprofessional or inexperienced musical public is not qualified to judge the value of music. That's why I'm a reform advocate. The wisdom of professionals has extolled John Cage and Pierre Boulez and their peers. I think many of us will agree that music of more lasting value was produced when even the most gifted musicians like Mozart were constrained to providing enjoyment and stimulation rather than just following their muse or writing for peer academics.

Mozart once wrote his father that his music had two levels, a more superficial one for entertainment, and a deeper one for connoisseurs. If he had lived in the later 20th Century he might have gone off the deep end too! I don't think Haydn took that attitude, Gurn may be able to affirm that he was deeply committed to providing musical inspiration to people and felt rewarded when he did so.

As you can tell, I'm  an audience-oriented classical advocate for reform of the musical establishment. My user name indicates that George Philipp Telemann has become my favorite composer for reasons I might mention in a future post. I'm also a great fan of both Stamitz's.

Cordial regards

Hi neighbor (I'm from a little further north on Rt. 123, based off of your 'location' description)!

Not much too add to what has been said. Even though I've always been a 20th-century music guy, I had similar feelings about music being written 'academically' as opposed to 'viscerally' (for instance, I've always preferred Bartok and Ligeti over Schoenberg and Boulez). I still couldn't help feel interested in the music of the latter two and I liked trying to decode their puzzles. Then, it hit me that people have both hearts and minds. There's no reason why music can't be written for both. In fact, I think that most music is written with both in mind. Haydn certainly knew what he was doing. I like Gurn's particular example with his 42nd symphony (which I didn't know about). On the other hand, much of Boulez's later output seems to be concerned with both ends of the spectrum (it's easy to criticize Boulez in particular due to his vitriolic comments when he was younger, but I suspect that the younger Boulez wouldn't approve of the older Boulez!).

[North Star]

Hi neighbor (I'm from a little further north on Rt. 123, based off of your 'location' description)!

Not much too add to what has been said. Even though I've always been a 20th-century music guy, I had similar feelings about music being written 'academically' as opposed to 'viscerally' (for instance, I've always preferred Bartok and Ligeti over Schoenberg and Boulez). I still couldn't help feel interested in the music of the latter two and I liked trying to decode their puzzles. Then, it hit me that people have both hearts and minds. There's no reason why music can't be written for both. In fact, I think that most music is written with both in mind. Haydn certainly knew what he was doing. I like Gurn's particular example with his 42nd symphony (which I didn't know about). On the other hand, much of Boulez's later output seems to be concerned with both ends of the spectrum (it's easy to criticize Boulez in particular due to his vitriolic comments when he was younger, but I suspect that the younger Boulez wouldn't approve of the older Boulez!).

Ha! A chance to mention this quotation from Boulez I read in a comment of a review of the Boulez Complete Works box:

[Boulez] came to give a composer's workshop at the Conservatoire I studied at. I was pleasantly surprised by him.
The first question to him (asked by me) was: " You have been quoted as saying that the idea of a great English composer is a genetic impossibility, are we wasting our time?"

Hilarity and applause ensued. " The only time you seem to be wasting" he replied " is in reading my old interviews."

That can be extrapolated to any of his old interviews, of course.