Wagner's Valhalla

[GanChan]

Hi Mike
I don't care too much for Windgassen either. In short, I'd say I respect his musicianship but never get real excitement from him. His was a voice closer to Loge or even Mime than to a real Heldentenor. In fact if you compare him to Paul Kuen in the Krauss "Siegfried" you won't fail to perceive Kuen's voice had more ping to it. Still, I respect enormously a lyric tenor who could sing the final duet and never strain or push the tone. Unfortunately, in 1966 his decline was accentuated by Nilsson's seemingly inexhaustible ringing tones. Im the Second Act I have always thought of an old Tristan wooing Isolde.

As for the "Lohengrin", I feel it was late for Domingo.

From all accounts Windgassen was also an intelligent actor who used the text well, adding to his value in the Wagnerian world. He was kind the go-to utility player on the Bayreuth team. He even saved the Culshaw Ring when, after initially being passed over for a younger Siegfried with a more glamorous voice, the new "star" proved incapable of learning the role or singing it with any insight, leading an embarrassed Culshaw to ask for Windgassen's help. So at the very least, he did no harm.

[jlaurson]

Anyone tried the Keilberth Gotterdammerung -- the one with Hotter as Gunther? I'm tempted to get it to hear him.


Keilberth - G'dammerung - Bayreuth 1955
Second Ring
Moedl / Hotter

I'm listening to the First of those G'daemmerungs right now... but I haven't the 'second cycle'. Apparently this is also in Decca's early stereo?

I love Hotter... I can understand the temptation just for him.

Anyone tried the Keilberth Gotterdammerung -- the one with Hotter as Gunther? I'm tempted to get it to hear him.


Keilberth - G'dammerung - Bayreuth 1955
First  Ring
Varnay / Uhde

[Jaakko Keskinen]

Anyone tried the Keilberth Gotterdammerung -- the one with Hotter as Gunther?

[asin]B001NB7XIW[/asin]

Hotter as Gunther?! World is going to explode from sheer awesomeness!

[Harry Powell]

I haven't seen if there's a Bayreuth thread, so forgive me for commenting here. I just listened to the broadcasts of "Tannhäuser" and "Lohengrin". One could only save the playing from the orchestra and the magnificent choir.

In "Tannhäuser" we had to endure one of the worst singers who have ever trodden Bayreuth: a certain Ms. Friede as Venus. A woman with the voice and style of a Mamma Lucia in a third-rate theatre. Lars Cleveman was the usual German tenor. Robust on the medium notes but coarse as the tessitura went higher. Michael Nagy also offers the expected throaty falsetto. One of those baritones who seem unable to deliver a full-blooded forte. To tell the truth, I interrupted the audition too much to judge Elisabeth.


In "Lohengrin" starred Florian Vogt. This a bewildering singer in whom one cannot recognise chest resonance anywhere in his range. Every note sounds in a pale, feeble timbre. It's true he sang some p and pp, but there was no mezzavoce and, as he cannot use the covered sound on the F-G fach, all the high A's were strained. A strange recast of the lyric German tenor. Annete Dasch, very appreciated by the HIP hooligans, was at pains to sing in key throughout the performance. An insignificant voice with no technique to speak about. Petra Lang is, as voice and temperament, a singer for Elsa but with an Elsa like Dasch it's logical (in accordance with Bayreuth logics) to cast her as Ortrud. She strains a lot, obviously. A so-called baritone barked his way through the role of Telramund.


 

[zamyrabyrd]

I haven't seen if there's a Bayreuth thread, so forgive me for commenting here. I just listened to the broadcasts of "Tannhäuser" and "Lohengrin". One could only save the playing from the orchestra and the magnificent choir.

In "Tannhäuser" we had to endure one of the worst singers who have ever trodden Bayreuth: a certain Ms. Friede as Venus. A woman with the voice and style of a Mamma Lucia in a third-rate theatre. Lars Cleveman was the usual German tenor. Robust on the medium notes but coarse as the tessitura went higher. Michael Nagy also offers the expected throaty falsetto. One of those baritones who seem unable to deliver a full-blooded forte. To tell the truth, I interrupted the audition too much to judge Elisabeth.


In "Lohengrin" starred Florian Vogt. This a bewildering singer in whom one cannot recognise chest resonance anywhere in his range. Every note sounds in a pale, feeble timbre. It's true he sang some p and pp, but there was no mezzavoce and, as he cannot use the covered sound on the F-G fach, all the high A's were strained. A strange recast of the lyric German tenor. Annete Dasch, very appreciated by the HIP hooligans, was at pains to sing in key throughout the performance. An insignificant voice with no technique to speak about. Petra Lang is, as voice and temperament, a singer for Elsa but with an Elsa like Dasch it's logical (in accordance with Bayreuth logics) to cast her as Ortrud. He strains a lot, obviously. A so-called baritone barked his way through the role of Telramund.

How does one get to listen to broadcasts from Bayreuth? I am VERY interested.
Also, it is surprising to read what you say about Vogt. He has been my Wagnerian Prince until now...

ZB

[marvinbrown]

I haven't seen if there's a Bayreuth thread, so forgive me for commenting here. I just listened to the broadcasts of "Tannhäuser" and "Lohengrin". One could only save the playing from the orchestra and the magnificent choir.

In "Tannhäuser" we had to endure one of the worst singers who have ever trodden Bayreuth: a certain Ms. Friede as Venus. A woman with the voice and style of a Mamma Lucia in a third-rate theatre. Lars Cleveman was the usual German tenor. Robust on the medium notes but coarse as the tessitura went higher. Michael Nagy also offers the expected throaty falsetto. One of those baritones who seem unable to deliver a full-blooded forte. To tell the truth, I interrupted the audition too much to judge Elisabeth.


In "Lohengrin" starred Florian Vogt. This a bewildering singer in whom one cannot recognise chest resonance
anywhere in his range. Every note sounds in a pale, feeble timbre. It's true he sang some p and pp, but there was no mezzavoce and, as he cannot use the covered sound on the F-G fach, all the high A's were strained. A strange recast of the lyric German tenor. Annete Dasch, very appreciated by the HIP hooligans, was at pains to sing in key throughout the performance. An insignificant voice with no technique to speak about. Petra Lang is, as voice and temperament, a singer for Elsa but with an Elsa like Dasch it's logical (in accordance with Bayreuth logics) to cast her as Ortrud. He strains a lot, obviously. A so-called baritone barked his way through the role of Telramund.

  Reviews like this make me long for those Golden years (mid-40s to mid-60s) of Wagnerian singers. What a shame.......a real shame.

  marvin

[jlaurson]

How does one get to listen to broadcasts from Bayreuth? I am VERY interested.
Also, it is surprising to read what you say about Vogt. He has been my Wagnerian Prince until now...

ZB

press blurb:

For those opera lovers who can't make it to Germany for the annual Bayreuth Festival, have no fear, Siemens Festival Night is bringing the opera into your own home. On Sunday August 14, in honor of the 100th anniversary of Bayreuth, Siemens will broadcast to the world Hans Neuenfels' production of Richard Wagner's 19th century romantic opera "Lohengrin" via live webcast.



This sensational production can be streamed live for $21.50 from 4:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. CET on Aug. 14th on www.siemens.com/festivalnight. Starting Aug. 15th it will be available on demand for the same price.

[Harry Powell]

How does one get to listen to broadcasts from Bayreuth? I am VERY interested.
Also, it is surprising to read what you say about Vogt. He has been my Wagnerian Prince until now...

ZB

Hi!

http://www.operacast.com/bayreuth_2011.htm#tannhauser

I recommend Bartók Radio.

As for Vogt, he never convinced me but now I feel he's approaching an early decline. One can spot a slight wobble in the final notes of each phrase and as I described, he has no top. He will be singing Tito in Paris en October. I won't be surprised if he sticks to lower roles in the future. Wagnerites have always insisted on the special dark color and the heroic tones that Heldentenoren need to convey the melancholy of the Wagner heroe and the high drama of his epic poems and now they praise a tenor who seems to come from a pueri cantores school.

Harry

[kishnevi]

Vogt was certainly the weakest link in the Nagano recording of Das Lied von der Erde, which was salvaged only by having an extremely good baritone.   

[jlaurson]

Vogt was certainly the weakest link in the Nagano recording of Das Lied von der Erde, which was salvaged only by having an extremely good baritone.

The problem there wasn't Vogt per se, but that his part was spliced in afterwards.
Vogt, although his voice can take some getting used to, can be great in certain Wagner roles (Lohengrin, Erik, Stoltzing) because he's not a belter and he can float his silvery choir-boy tenor above the orchestra, being heard at lower decibels than his colleagues. That said, he doesn't always work for me, either.

[Jaakko Keskinen]

Tomorrow Rheingold in Finnish national opera  The ironic thing is that Siegfried, Brünnhilde and Wotan are sung by foreigners. :I

[Harry Powell]

The problem there wasn't Vogt per se, but that his part was spliced in afterwards.

The problem there was Vogt's singing is the worst ever made on record. One has to listen twice to believe it is not a practical joke.

[kishnevi]

The problem there was Vogt's singing is the worst ever made on record. One has to listen twice to believe it is not a practical joke.

It wasn't that bad.  Just not enough volume and no phrasing.   Perhaps the volume balance is an engineering fault. 

For worst singing on a record meant for actual serious commercial  consumption,  I would nominate Erika Koeth vi-i-ib-b-br-rr-raa-aa-at-iiing her way through Exultate jubilate.  I can't begin to describe how awful that one is, except to say that it was very bad and broad vibrato from first note to last.

And even that was better than John Wayne "singing" Winter Wonderland, but no one pretended he was a singer. 

And then of course there was Florence Foster Jenkins.....

[jlaurson]

It wasn't that bad.  Just not enough volume and no phrasing.   Perhaps the volume balance is an engineering fault. 

For worst singing on a record meant for actual serious commercial  consumption,  I would nominate Erika Koeth vi-i-ib-b-br-rr-raa-aa-at-iiing her way through Exultate jubilate.  I can't begin to describe how awful that one is, except to say that it was very bad and broad vibrato from first note to last.

Agreed. KFV in the LvdE is unmotivated and lacking in some other ways, but not atrocious.
Agreed also on E.Koeth; her Adele in the Fledermaus (the Karajan Golden Gala version) is just as bad; that wobble cannot be un-heard. Bleating, more than vibrato.

[Harry Powell]

Here's the evidence: http://open.spotify.com/track/6b6XWo3IVs7U7Az3Nps4hR

We condemn K. F. Vogt to life ban from opera houses for the crimes of crooning and phrasing like a parrot.

[jlaurson]

Here's the evidence: http://open.spotify.com/track/6b6XWo3IVs7U7Az3Nps4hR

We condemn K. F. Flogt to life ban to opera houses for the crimes of crooning and phrasing like a parrot.

By that arrogant stance you would be banned for life from participating in English language fora for misspelling names and a ruthless disregard for grammar.

I don't mind people expressing their dismay or dislike with singers or writers et al., but this haughty way of phrasing it, pronouncing on an alleged majority's behalf the 'ban' of a singer (I've once been declared, in the same absurd style, a 'persona non grata' to the whole of Munich) really rubs me the wrong way.

I know there's a good chance you didn't mean it to sound as pompously as it does, much less that you are a pompous person (you could be ravishingly charming, for all I know), but at the very least I'd like to put this reaction to your words up for consideration.

[knight66]

The problem there was Vogt's singing is the worst ever made on record. One has to listen twice to believe it is not a practical joke.

I quote myself from my review of the Nagano DLVDE.....re  Klaus Florian Vogt


'I saw that there was a 'Das Lied von der Erde'
Can I need another one? I have about 12, including two with all male singers, the Schoenberg reduction and a version accompanied by piano. However, this was a version conducted by Nagano and his Mahler 8th is a surprise favourite of mine. So, when it arrived, I had high hopes. I had not read any reviews of this disc before I heard it.

In sum, I am very glad it cost me as little as it did. The tenor, Klaus Florian Vogt is new to me. It is a sweet and plangent voice, but basically in that first song, a boy was sent in to do a man's job and he has to gentle his way to negotiate round some of it, sounding tremulous on occasion. I want a heroic sound to pit against that wall of sound. I just cannot understand why this singer is attempting this music. And yet, and yet....he is a Wagner singer with Lohengrin and Parsifal in his repertoire!

I was so taken aback by what I was hearing that I listened again through headphones and here the detail he puts into the songs is much clearer. He never barks or shouts, but he sounds under pressure, in the wrong way. It is a poetic approach, though why does a Wagner tenor sound taxed at the top of this third song and occasionally under the note? I wonder how much help he needed from the engineers?'

I thought he was pretty appalling and I can't think I would ever deliberately encounter him again.

Mike

[jlaurson]

I quote myself from my review of the Nagano DLVDE.....re  Klaus Florian Vogt
. I want a heroic sound to pit against that wall of sound. I just cannot understand why this singer is attempting this music. And yet, and yet....he is a Wagner singer with Lohengrin and Parsifal in his repertoire!

I was so taken aback by what I was hearing that I listened again through headphones and here the detail he puts into the songs is much clearer. He never barks or shouts, but he sounds under pressure, in the wrong way. It is a poetic approach, though why does a Wagner tenor sound taxed at the top of this third song and occasionally under the note? I wonder how much help he needed from the engineers?'

I thought he was pretty appalling and I can't think I would ever deliberately encounter him again.

1.) He had help from the engineers (he was spliced in)
2.) It isn't ultimately a good effort
3.) His voice is NOT one that everyone loves
4.) He *can* sing above (!) a Wagnerian orchestra at true piano
5.) It works stupendously in some productions
6.) He is not, will never be, a power-tenor... but he's got the range and ability to attack these roles from a different angle.

Very interesting singer, trust me... no reason to judge him only by this DLE. Not saying you'll necessarily like him... but that there is objective merit to what he does.

[knight66]

I don't discount what you say; but really I would like to hear him in a different repertoire; Bach, Schubert, Brahms. I wonder if I might 'get' him then.

Mike

[Harry Powell]

I'd like to hear him once he learnt to use chest resonance. Good review, Mike. A friend of mine told me: "You have to listen to this. You'll think a third-rate countertenor from a Christie's Haendel set has slipped into the recording."