Wagner's Valhalla

[marvinbrown]

I'm afraid I've always been a very obedient Wagnerian -  for the Meister the canon started with the Holländer, and so it has done for me. I know the overtures to Feen and Liebesverbot, and that's it. Of the so-called 'romantic' operas Tannhäuser is my favourite, though Wagner himself thought he owed the world a better version...

  Oh I am more than happy with the revised version of Tannhausser that Wagner introduced in Paris.  Too bad the audiences in Paris weren't  . From what I have read  politics played a role in their dissatisfaction and Wagner's response was muted, surprisingly.  But then again I doubt he had much respect for the French opera scene altogether.

  marvin

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

  Oh I am more than happy with the revised version of Tannhausser that Wagner introduced in Paris.  Too bad the audiences in Paris weren't  . From what I have read  politics played a role in their dissatisfaction and Wagner's response was muted, surprisingly.  But then again I doubt he had much respect for the French opera scene altogether.

  marvin

Wagner wrote the Bacchanale (terrific piece!) for his Paris audience specially. Unfortunately he put it in the 1st Act (of course), forgetting that the members of the Jockey Club always arrived after their meal to ogle the ballet girls in the 2nd Act... And so they whipped out their whistles in indignation and - Tannhäuser fell through... Wagner was always dissatisfied with the work. I think it marks a moment of essential transition. Lohengrin is a big step ahead. Rheingold - a quantum leap.

[Lisztianwagner]

I'm afraid I've always been a very obedient Wagnerian -  for the Meister the canon started with the Holländer, and so it has done for me. I know the overtures to Feen and Liebesverbot, and that's it. Of the so-called 'romantic' operas Tannhäuser is my favourite, though Wagner himself thought he owed the world a better version...

Sure, Wagner didn't consider those operas worthy of being performed in Bayreuth, and he was certainly right; though it's interesting to listen to the early Wagner, noticing how his style of composition developed. 

[karlhenning]

Sure, Wagner didn't consider those operas worthy of being performed in Bayreuth, and he was certainly right; though it's interesting to listen to the early Wagner, noticing how his style of composition developed. 

I like Holländer for that reason.

And, I might as well face it: because of its brevity, sure ; )

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I like Holländer for that reason.

And, I might as well face it: because of its brevity, sure ; )

Der fliegende Holländer is the first opera in the Wagnerian canon, Karl. The early works which Wagner dismissed are Die Feen, Das Liebesverbot and Rienzi - these are therefore never played in Bayreuth.

[Lisztianwagner]

I like Holländer for that reason.

And, I might as well face it: because of its brevity, sure ; )

I don't usually care about the lenght, I let myself go to the beauty of music 

But though it's a right point of view: if an opera was too long, it would become too heavy to listen; and I think this doesn't count just for opera, but for music in general.
Being able to express everything you feel with not much lenght and in a fine way can be a great quality.

Ilaria

[karlhenning]

Der fliegende Holländer is the first opera in the Wagnerian canon, Karl. The early works which Wagner dismissed are Die Feen, Das Liebesverbot and Rienzi - these are therefore never played in Bayreuth.

Ho capito, Johan. I do enjoy the "musical seams" in Holländer,all the same.

[kishnevi]

Der fliegende Holländer is the first opera in the Wagnerian canon, Karl. The early works which Wagner dismissed are Die Feen, Das Liebesverbot and Rienzi - these are therefore never played in Bayreuth.

never played at the Festspielhaus, to be precise.

I remember that either Die Feen or Das Liebesverbot, or possibly both, were performed in the 1980s at least once in the original 18th century theater (the Margravin's theater,  I think it's called) which was Bayreuth's main theater before Wagner--given as sort of ancillary productions or curiousities during the main production runs.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

never played at the Festspielhaus, to be precise.

I remember that either Die Feen or Das Liebesverbot, or possibly both, were performed in the 1980s at least once in the original 18th century theater (the Margravin's theater,  I think it's called) which was Bayreuth's main theater before Wagner--given as sort of ancillary productions or curiousities during the main production runs.

Thanks for the correction, my dear Beckmesser!    But - did you, apart from hearing non-canonical Wagner in the 'Markgräfliches Opernhaus', the Margravial Opera House, actually attend a 'real' Wagner opera at the Festspielhaus?!

[kishnevi]

Thanks for the correction, my dear Beckmesser!    But - did you, apart from hearing non-canonical Wagner in the 'Markgräfliches Opernhaus', the Margravial Opera House, actually attend a 'real' Wagner opera at the Festspielhaus?!

No, no!  I'm sorry for any confusion.  I've never been to Germany, much less to Bayreuth.
My information comes from being an avid reader of Opera News back in my youthful days.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

No, no!  I'm sorry for any confusion.  I've never been to Germany, much less to Bayreuth.
My information comes from being an avid reader of Opera News back in my youthful days.

Ach so... We both have our Wagnerian Hajj still before us, then!

[Renfield]

For some reason, Siegfried's never sat too well with me (so far).

It's dark, and character-driven, and undoubtedly well-crafted, but I always find myself preferring Die Walküre, among the three operas that I am happy to heretically consider [vital, and musically substantial] preludes to Götterdämmerung!

[Jaakko Keskinen]

Not sure if I have mentioned it yet, but Siegfried is my personal favorite. Waldweben is the most beautiful segment Wagner ever wrote IMO. That first bird call with oboe and flute is divine! And almost all of my favorite characters appear in this opera. The Ring operas have always been my favorites, but no. 5. spot has changed several times over the years between Parsifal, Tristan, Meistersinger and fliegende Holländer.

Current top 6:

Siegfried
Das Rheingold
Götterdämmerung
Die Walküre
Parsifal
Tristan

[Harry Powell]

I didn't find a thread for jokes so I'll tell you here that Domingo is to debut as Holländer:

http://www.larena.it/stories/Cultura_e_Spettacoli/285604_il_maestro_diriger_wagner_in_arena_con_placido_domingo/

This man's gone crazy. As for Barenboim, it's a disappointment to see he's ready to show off in this botch.

[eyeresist]

Yeah, who would be stupid enough to watch an opera featuring Domingo and Barenboim?   

[Harry Powell]

Of course, people believing two big names are enogh to make an old tenor sound like a Bassbariton won't miss the show.

[Bill H.]

For some reason, Siegfried's never sat too well with me (so far).

It's dark, and character-driven, and undoubtedly well-crafted, but I always find myself preferring Die Walküre, among the three operas that I am happy to heretically consider [vital, and musically substantial] preludes to Götterdämmerung!

I have come to believe that Siegfried is the ultimate "guys" opera....think about it--

--Playing with sharp objects, and others that make lots of noise
--Swagger
--Dealing with 'father' issues
--Running around in a loincloth and slaying monsters (and dwarfs)
--Nobody like a Fricka telling you what to do,
--and in the end, you still wind up with the Babe! (so what if technically she's your aunt)

What's not to like?

[knight66]

The numb backside at the end of it.

Mike

[Renfield]

I have come to believe that Siegfried is the ultimate "guys" opera....think about it--

--Playing with sharp objects, and others that make lots of noise
--Swagger
--Dealing with 'father' issues
--Running around in a loincloth and slaying monsters (and dwarfs)
--Nobody like a Fricka telling you what to do,
--and in the end, you still wind up with the Babe! (so what if technically she's your aunt)

What's not to like?

Frankly, I'd be more amenable to this list's merits if Siegfried didn't manage to be such a [kitten] over it all, even while doing the assorted slaying and incest. And lest any Wagnerians suffer heart attacks, I mean 'were I to view Siegfried as a guy-oriented romp'.


I do realise there's a reason he's vulnerable, and in fact any enjoyment I get out of Siegfried largely revolves around the inherent flaws of Siegfried as a character that Wagner is - surely - not blind to, and illustrates with all the swagger (or so I tell myself).

Otherwise, give me von Hofmannsthal psychodrama any day, over Siegfried.

[BMW]

!!!

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Warner%2BClassics/2564666834