Wagner's Valhalla

[Fafner]

I don't know...Hojotoho, hojotoho has a rather festive ring, doesn't it? 

Sarge

ROFL 

[kishnevi]

FWIW, WCRB played the Valkries' Galumph this morning (it was Erich Kunzel & the Cincy Pops, so came a passage where they really schlumphed into the galumph).  A genuinely weird item to program two mornings before Christmas.

Perhaps they were giving a musical equivalent to all the last minute shoppers.

[Octave]

Just some willynilly shillery, in case it hasn't been mentioned; it's not really news.

I just ran across yet another (March 2013) reissue of the Böhm RING, this time from Decca/Eloquence, perhaps notable for a new AMSI remastering exclusive (??) to this edition.  I have heard sharply mixed reactions to various AMSI masterings, but one Amazon UK reviewer asserted that it was a real improvement here.  I see that the set is 12 discs, not 14; the aforementioned Amazon UK reviewer only mentioned SIEGFRIED being reformatted to one act per disc .*


ASIN: B00AX20AHI  (available from Amazon UK, etc...but apparently not from Amazon US)
EDIT: here's a different ASIN for US-MP availability, but for the moment it's much more expensive: B00BHNQ1N4

I imagine this would mainly be of interest to those who don't own the Bohm at all.  Though of course that big GREAT OPERAS FROM THE BAYREUTH FESTIVAL set (also Decca) came back into print ~this year, and it includes the Bohm (in the older mastering?).
Either set (Eloquence RING or the big DECCA ~collected operas box) for the moment comes to ~$2/disc.

* an Amazon U.S. reviewer says: "It's only 12 discs, with Walküre and Siegfried on 3 each with all the bad breaks removed. The Götterdämmerung act III disc break is still present, though. Sound is a different remaster, but it sounds better IMO, but honestly not that different."

Another Amazon U.S. reviewer is rather stronger with both praise and irritation: "The sound has been opened up, capturing the unique acoustic of the Bayreuth Festival theater even more splendidly than in previous incarnations. Die Walkure is now on three discs, eliminating the break in Act Three (though there still is an unavoidable break in Act Two done, however, at a musically appropriate moment) and Siegfried is on three discs (an act a disc) with no breaks at all within the acts. Sounds perfect? Not quite. The third act of Gotterdammerung is still split - very unnecessarily - over two discs when it could easily has been accomodated on the last disc with no break. It would have run all of 74 minutes, shorter than some other discs in the set."

[knight66]

Some folk need to remember the days of 78s when you would almost have stood over the discs to change them every few minutes and in LP days every 20 minutes or so. One break.....big deal.

Mike

[Madiel]

Some folk need to remember the days of 78s when you would almost have stood over the discs to change them every few minutes and in LP days every 20 minutes or so. One break.....big deal.

Mike

But surely that just emphasises the point - that the breaks are now technically unnecessary. The complaint isn't about breaks, it's about needless breaks.

[knight66]

Yes, one across 15 hours.

Mike

[Itullian]

But surely that just emphasises the point - that the breaks are now technically unnecessary. The complaint isn't about breaks, it's about needless breaks.

EXACTLY!!!!

[Madiel]

Yes, one across 15 hours.

Mike

When it comes to unnecessary breaks, that's one more than most things in my collection!

[Jaakko Keskinen]

MishaK, you can sigh in relief. I no longer consider Lohengrin Wagner's worst (or should I say: "least good") mature opera. After relistening it again for a few times I grew more deeply attached to it. I've been listening especially the prelude and I can say that it's orchestration is amazing! I think the reason I liked it less than his other operas first was because I picked a bad recording of it. First impressions really do count. So now Tannhäuser is my least favorite (although I still love it). And I kind of regret my complaining of Elsa's character when compared to Elizabeth (she's kind of a bland character) she is as convincing as Shakespeare's Ophelia. At least Elsa has a humane weakness in that she can't help herself asking the forbidden question. Elizabeth is just a saint.

[jlaurson]

MishaK, you can sigh in relief. I no longer consider Lohengrin Wagner's worst (or should I say: "least good") mature opera. After relistening it again for a few times I grew more deeply attached to it. I've been listening especially the prelude and I can say that it's orchestration is amazing! I think the reason I liked it less than his other operas first was because I picked a bad recording of it. First impressions really do count. So now Tannhäuser is my least favorite (although I still love it). And I kind of regret my complaining of Elsa's character when compared to Elizabeth (she's kind of a bland character) she is as convincing as Shakespeare's Ophelia. At least Elsa has a humane weakness in that she can't help herself asking the forbidden question. Elizabeth is just a saint.

Elisabeth wants to break out of the restrictive moral corset of the Wartburg chaps... not that much of a saint, actually... although the temptation to portray her as such is certainly there. There's much to Tannhaeuser, too, about freedom vs. licence et al.

[Jaakko Keskinen]

The funny thing with Tannhäuser is that even though you're not supposed to root for him in act 2 I personally always did and when everyone is trying to kill him for being at Venusberg I usually yell: "Come on, people, lighten up!"

[jlaurson]

The funny thing with Tannhäuser is that even though you're not supposed to root for him in act 2 I personally always did and when everyone is trying to kill him for being at Venusberg I usually yell: "Come on, people, lighten up!"

You are supposed to kind of root for him. Wagner certainly did. Well, at least he didn't root for the uptight Wartburgboys! They're the embodiment of illiberty from which Elisbaeth must flee to attain freedom... whereas Tannhaeuser must leave the license of Venus behind him to find true freedom.

[Jaakko Keskinen]

I have to modify my statement about Tchaikovsky being anti-Wagnerian. That is not completely true. I read some of his letters and articles where he acknowledged that Wagner's music had many innovative, even genius attributes. Here is a quote from an article that he wrote for the Russian Register:

"And so, by way of conclusion, I should like to say something about the overall impression which this performance of Der Ring des Nibelungen has left me with. Firstly, it has left me with a vague recollection of many strikingly beautiful musical features, especially of a symphonic kind, which is very strange, given that Wagner least of all intended to write operas in a symphonic style. Secondly, it has left me with respectful admiration for the author's tremendous talent and his incredibly rich technique. Thirdly, it has left me with misgivings as to whether Wagner's view of opera is correct. Fourthly, it has left me greatly exhausted, but at the same time it has also left me with the wish to continue my study of this most complicated work of music ever written."

That's not completely negative statement, is it? Things that he didn't like in Wagner were his handling of myths (this is actually true with many genuine Wagnerians such as Bruckner, known for his famous comment after seeing Götterdämmerung: "Tell me, why did they burn that lady in the end?"),that he found as "impossible and unhuman" and, in most cases, the singing itself. He noticed how "symphonic" his use of leitmotives was and remarked essentially that Wagner would have made a terrific symphony composer but that he was unsuited for opera.

[jochanaan]

It sounds as if P.I. deeply admired Wagner but felt no real wish to emulate him.  In the only Tchaikovsky opera I'm familiar with, Eugene Onegin, perhaps the only "Wagnerian" feature is the continuous arc of glorious musical sound in each act--like hearing a 3-hour-long Tchaikovsky symphony.  None of the great ballet scores I know, much as I like them, come close to the continuous beauties of Onegin.

[Jaakko Keskinen]

From page that I quoted this article I also read that only work that he openly acknowledged being influenced by Wagner, was Francesca da Rimini that he wrote during his visit at Bayreuth to see Ring.

[Florestan]

"And so, by way of conclusion, I should like to say something about the overall impression which this performance of Der Ring des Nibelungen has left me with. Firstly, it has left me with a vague recollection of many strikingly beautiful musical features, especially of a symphonic kind, which is very strange, given that Wagner least of all intended to write operas in a symphonic style. Secondly, it has left me with respectful admiration for the author's tremendous talent and his incredibly rich technique. Thirdly, it has left me with misgivings as to whether Wagner's view of opera is correct. Fourthly, it has left me greatly exhausted, but at the same time it has also left me with the wish to continue my study of this most complicated work of music ever written."

Thank you so very much for posting it! This might be the most accurate and sincere description of Wagner's music ever penned by a non-Wagnerian --- and it only reinforces my love for Tchaikovsky, my being decidedly straight and father of one boy notwithstanding! 

Wagner would have made a terrific symphony composer but that he was unsuited for opera.

My thoughts exactly. 

[Jaakko Keskinen]

You're very welcome, Florestan. I love Tchaikovsky as well, one of my favorite composers!

[Brahmsian]

Starting my summer tradition:

Day 1 - Das Rheingold! 

[asin]B0000042H5[/asin]

[Lisztianwagner]

Starting my summer tradition:

Day 1 - Das Rheingold! 

[asin]B0000042H5[/asin]

Great! Although that's not my very favourite recording, Solti's Das Rheingold is definitely wonderful, with a thrilling Donner's theme, even better than the Karajan.

Theorically, Day 1 should be Die Walküre; Das Rheingold is the prologue.

[Brahmsian]

Theorically, Day 1 should be Die Walküre; Das Rheingold is the prologue.

Oh yes.    However, it is Day 1 of my listening journey.  Day 1 of 10.  That's a summer holiday tradition for me. 

Solti's prelude to Das Rheingold sends shivers up my spine every time.  It never fails.