Collecting Toscanini

[Dr. Dread]

Any tips? Certain recordings? How are those Pristine remasters? Etc.

Thanks.

[jwinter]

This rocks:



Much better than the commonly available RCA studio set (though that one's pretty good too).

[Todd]

This rocks....Much better than the commonly available RCA studio set (though that one's pretty good too).

Completely agree - it's one of the best cycles available, and the sound is extremely good for its age. 


The Verdi recordings box on RCA is worth having, if only for the Otello, Falstaff, and Requiem.  (Oh, and the other recordings, too).

[Dr. Dread]

Just ordered the first one. Wish-listed the second one. Thanks, dudes.

[Dr. Dread]

I heard his Missa is the bee's knees. Any recs for that one?

[Dr. Dread]

Re: Missa Solmenis

There's a download on Amazon from the '40s (for cheap) and Pristine has one from the '50s. How many did he do?

[Peregrine]

The Verdi recordings box on RCA is worth having, if only for the Otello, Falstaff, and Requiem.  (Oh, and the other recordings, too).

An essential, legendary set of recordings IMO, not just the quality, but for the links with Verdi, informed performance etc. I think they are absolutely fantastic.

I will also second the Beethoven cycle from 1939, although I have it on Naxos. Superb, chrarged and high octane.

[Bogey]

Get this for the 1936 recording of the 7th while you still can, Dave.:



http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Symphony-Number-5-7/dp/B00005MFGQ/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1236787276&sr=1-8

The recording is discussed more here, and was recommended as one of the best 7th's out there, period.:

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3764.0.html

[Dr. Dread]

Get this for the 1936 recording 7th while you still can, Dave.:



http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Symphony-Number-5-7/dp/B00005MFGQ/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1236787276&sr=1-8

The recording is discussed more here, and was recommended as one of the best 7th's out there, period.:

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3764.0.html

Wouldn't this be in the box mentioned above?

[Bogey]

No.  That is the 1939 I believe.

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=171422

[mahler10th]

Anyone want Toscaninni's take on Bruckner 7?  A radio recording from 1927.  It's on Symphonyshare.

[bhodges]

Toscanini's 1942 recording (broadcast live) of Shostakovich's Symphony No. 7 should be heard once by everyone, solely for its historical importance.  On that occasion, millions of people were listening to this performance on the radio, after the score was smuggled out of the Soviet Union on microfilm.  (It's kind of quaint; can you imagine a similar phenomenon today?)

Here is the Time magazine story a few days in advance of the concert.

--Bruce

[dirkronk]

Re: Missa Solmenis

There's a download on Amazon from the '40s (for cheap) and Pristine has one from the '50s. How many did he do?

A few. On CD I have the 1940 NBC with Milanov, Bjorling, Kipnis--when I was searching for "the" Missa, this was highly touted. Since then, I've also picked up the 1939 performance on a 2-CD BBC Legends set, which has been patiently waiting for me to spin it for a while now. And yes, there's a much more common version from the 1950s, as well. Maybe more--dunno. I really should do a comparison...so many recordings, so little time.

As to must-have Toscanini:
- Generally, anything with the NYPSO. This will be in ancient sound--sometimes barely listenable--but the conducting is frequently a revelation if all you know is Toscanini's NBC stuff. The speed and precision are there, but so is an added dollop of power (sometimes controlled, sometimes unleashed) and far less mania. Examples? Check out the two or three Rossini overtures he did with New York compared to his later takes with NBC. His mid-1930s Beethoven 7th symphony w/ NY (reissued countless times on RCA and its successors) is justly famous, but his 4th and 5th, in admittedly horrid sound on a Relief LP I own, rocked me back on my heels the first time I heard them.
- His recordings with the Philadelphia Orchestra. Toscanini swapped orchestras with Stokowski for a season or so around 1940, and part of the results were a number of recordings that everyone interested in Toskie should hear--not least of which is one of THE great interps of Schubert's Great C symphony. I have a boxed set of LPs that I treasure; don't know if these have ever been issued on CD other than the giant Toscanini set from years back, but it should be easy enough to check.
- Brahms symphonies with the Philharmonia. British orchestras and Toscanini could be an interesting combination. In this case, they produced a truly beautiful and, well, un-Toskie-like set of Brahms (2 through 4 anyway--1 is OK but not at the same level IMO) and one that's VERY different from the cycle he did with NBC (comparing is both instructive and fascinating--I did it years ago). Even Toskie haters seem to like this set...IF you don't tell 'em who's conducting first, anyway.
- NBC stuff: I'll leave most specifics to others. Except to say that you should at least have an assortment of his overtures (Rossini--manic, to be sure, but great nonetheless, Verdi, Wagner, et al), his Dvorak New World, some Tchaikovsky (sym.6, R&J), maybe the Mendelssohn 4th, Cherubini symphony, Prokofiev sym. 1, and of course a good smattering of Beethoven (the 1939 cycle noted above IS a good one, but hear some from the early '50s as well, to see how he changed) and Brahms.

Am I inundating you? Do remember that public or college libraries may well have copies in their collections that you can sample free, especially of Toscanini's NBC years. Some online classical "share" sites have plenty of Toscanini to download. And it would probably be a good idea to see how you react to his conducting before you commit a lot of dollars to this project, no?

Enjoy.

Dirk

[Dr. Dread]

Am I inundating you? Do remember that public or college libraries may well have copies in their collections that you can sample free, especially of Toscanini's NBC years. Some online classical "share" sites have plenty of Toscanini to download. And it would probably be a good idea to see how you react to his conducting before you commit a lot of dollars to this project, no?

Enjoy.

Dirk

Thanks for all that. I've heard him before. I have an LvB 9th and the Tchaikovsky p cto with Horowitz. I think that one has Horowitz's Pictures at an Exhibition on it too.

[Mandryka]

I once heard in someone's house a really fine Toscannini performance of Beethoven's Symphony 2.

I had the NBC box for a while, but the performance there didn't have the same magical thrust and energy -- especially in the final movement.

Can anyone recommend a Beethoven 2 by Toscannini?

[Renfield]

The 1939 Beethoven cycle and the NYPO Beethoven 5th & 7th (above) I have pretty much become a nuisance in championing here.

So I won't add anything to what has already been stated, other than: get!  


Concerning the Verdi, I am no Verdi expert, but even I recognise the nigh-inestimable historical and musical value of that box set! And there is a splendid disc with the Requiem, Te Deum and some overtures, courtesy of the Instituto Discographico Italiano, that I quite cherish.

(Also his earliest - to my knowledge - Verdi Requiem on record, via Testament; but the sound is very wooly - proceed at your own risk. )


Concerning the rest, I second the recommendation for the Philharmonia Brahms cycle (which Karajan had rehearsed, BTW  ), although his RCA Brahms is also certainly worth having, if you like his approach (vs. the Philharmonia cycle being a more general recommendation).

And the 1939 BBC Legends Missa Solemnis being the only one I've heard from Toscanini, I can still highly recommend it!


Regarding the Bruckner and Shostakovich 7ths, I more or less hold the same view for both: highly interesting, but not essential.


Mandryka, the 2nd you heard might well have been the 1939. That cycle is magic - but don't let me repeat myself (again)!

[jwinter]

The recordings with Philadelphia are out on CD, but I seem to recall reading a lot of comments that the remastering was a real hack job.  Anyone heard it?

[Dr. Dread]

Get this for the 1936 recording of the 7th while you still can, Dave.:



http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Symphony-Number-5-7/dp/B00005MFGQ/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1236787276&sr=1-8

The recording is discussed more here, and was recommended as one of the best 7th's out there, period.:

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3764.0.html

Ordered it.

[Renfield]

Ordered it.

And there was much rejoicing.

[dirkronk]

The recordings with Philadelphia are out on CD, but I seem to recall reading a lot of comments that the remastering was a real hack job.  Anyone heard it?

Oh man. If true, THAT is sad!


Dirk