Author Topic: Rihm's Wolf Gang  (Read 42021 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

snyprrr

  • Guest
Rihm's Wolf Gang
« on: March 12, 2009, 08:35:40 PM »
I really like this guy...but i think it's because i knew when to stop collecting! the guy's prolific, and i've heard, uneven, but i've enjoyed just about everything i've heard.

srt. qrts. 3,5,8-arditti qrt.

Time Chant by AnneSophie Mutter

Formen und Jagden

Trio Basso Vol.1 (vla,vnc,bs trios by Rihm, Kalitzke, Kagel, and...????)

Music for 3 Strings/ Fremde Scenzen (pn. trio- both pieces over 50min. each!)

)a few scattered pieces on DG(

the piano sonatas...the chiffres...

i had the Kairos disc of some chiffres, but...eh, they all seem to work up the culminating Formen und Jagden which seems to contain all their ideas in one structure. now THIS piece i like, and early on, the tuba makes this great otherworldly sound.  this piece always sounds like it's stopping...like he's writing stream of consciousness and he puts down the pen to go to the bathroom, and when he comes back he just picks up and goes in a different direction.

apparently Lachenmann and Rihm don't get along

but all the string chamber music i've heard i consider state of the art '79-'91 era avant garde. he's up to 12 or 13 qrts. now, and i know some reviewers think it's too much, and i know my pocketbook can't take it (wanna take about the economy?)

and i love his big forehead!
« Last Edit: May 04, 2009, 12:29:28 AM by snyprrr »

Offline Est.1965

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3898
  • Havergal Brian wrote two symphonies in 1965
  • Location: Clydebank, Scotland
Re: Wolfgang Rihm
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2009, 09:02:11 PM »
There is a link to the Rhim work somewhere in this forum, "Two other movements."
I really like the piece, he's a living composer I should investigate further, the above piece merits it.  He's on my list, but I'm busy with Webern at the moment... :-\
Dear Hans Rott
In the 1980s there was a creative punk group called "Big Audio Dynamite".  I have decided to apply the term to you, my man.  And I still haven't properly finished your Screenplay yet.  Too bad.  Take care anyway old chum, I'm off to listen to Brahms!
Kind regards, John

Offline Archaic Torso of Apollo

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3372
  • Location: Chicagoland
Re: Wolfgang Rihm
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2009, 10:45:53 PM »
Jagden und Formen rocks, a real knock-out piece. On the other hand, I tried the Arditti 4tet disc and couldn't make much headway - the music just seemed to meander in various avant-garde directions.
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

snyprrr

  • Guest
Re: Wolfgang Rihm
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2009, 11:29:01 PM »
perhaps you might like a cd incl. a RECENT (his style's changing) clarinet qnt. + new quartet.

listen again to qrt no.8, the latest at the time ('88). compare to Nono's qrt. still, it HAS been 20 years of growth since then.  the complete cycle is avail.

he does sometimes prefer patience-wearing time lengths. but Formen und...J justifies all in it's 90s exhuberance. and the string trio and piano trio are both grueling yet i find rewarding at 50min each.

Offline Harpo

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 485
Re: Wolfgang Rihm
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2009, 03:18:46 AM »
I have the chance to go to Carnegie Hall in October. One of my choices is the Takacs string quarter. They are playing Beethoven, Schumann and Wolfgang Rihm. I know Rihm is contemporary, but what is his style? Is it accessible to the average, middle-of-the-road concertgoer--fun or irritating? I often like contemporary, both music and visual art.
If music be the food of love, hold the mayo.

Offline Archaic Torso of Apollo

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3372
  • Location: Chicagoland
Re: Wolfgang Rihm
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2009, 03:32:51 AM »
I know Rihm is contemporary, but what is his style? Is it accessible to the average, middle-of-the-road concertgoer--

No  :)

Based on the quartets I've heard, Rihm takes off from avant-garde composers like Nono and Xenakis. The occasional evocation of romantic style is not likely to make things easier for a listener who doesn't do anything more radical than, e.g., Bartok or Shostakovich.
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

Offline edward

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3727
  • Hello, little man. I will destroy you.
Re: Wolfgang Rihm
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2009, 04:46:07 AM »
I have the chance to go to Carnegie Hall in October. One of my choices is the Takacs string quarter. They are playing Beethoven, Schumann and Wolfgang Rihm. I know Rihm is contemporary, but what is his style? Is it accessible to the average, middle-of-the-road concertgoer--fun or irritating? I often like contemporary, both music and visual art.
My answer would be a little different to Spitvalve's -- it would be "which quartet are they playing?"

Rihm's style is certainly highly erratic, there are some works that could be described as frankly neoromantic (and to my mind he does the neoromantic style with far more conviction than pretty much any of his peers) but many others might be less accessible to a listener who has little interest in new music.

I do wish more of Rihm's music were available on disc--but given his huge output the scattered coverage is hardly surprising.
"I don't at all mind actively disliking a piece of contemporary music, but in order to feel happy about it I must consciously understand why I dislike it. Otherwise it remains in my mind as unfinished business."
 -- Aaron Copland, The Pleasures of Music

Offline Harpo

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 485
Re: Wolfgang Rihm
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2009, 07:20:40 AM »
"Which quartet are they playing?"  ??   The program says it's the New York premiere of Quartet #11, so I doubt it's on CD yet.  I think it might make a nice contrast to Beethoven and Schumann, anyway.

I agree that Rihm's forehead makes him look like one of the 2nd generation Star Trek characters. Of course, men who are balding just claim that their foreheads are getting bigger.   ;D
If music be the food of love, hold the mayo.

snyprrr

  • Guest
Re: Wolfgang Rihm
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2009, 08:44:41 AM »
I do believe SQ No.11 is available on one of those "col legno" type labels.  Is it the Minguet? SQ?

SQ No.11 is definitely in the middle of Rihm's over the top prolific phase of the 90s.  As stated, lately he veers from one style to another and back again, from piece to piece.  I imagine No.11 isn't easy listening, and I have heard some grumblings about his later SQs (on Amazon?).  It might just depend how looooong it is! Please get back to us!

Offline Archaic Torso of Apollo

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3372
  • Location: Chicagoland
Re: Wolfgang Rihm
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2009, 09:04:22 PM »
In view of this composer's Martinu-like prolificity, would anyone like to put together a list of "essential Rihm"?
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

snyprrr

  • Guest
Re: Wolfgang Rihm
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2009, 11:24:23 AM »
"The Essential Rihm" sounds like one of those Philips 2fers (The Essential Lutoslawski,etc). Looking over his works list (up to 1990) I find this...well...un-do-able. What I've noticed is that a little bit of Rihm goes a very long way. I would simply see what the major labels have to say, which makes choices pretty obvious. I think a lot of people might find a work they like, and then in frustration spend lots of $$$ going down the rabbitt hole for another masterpiece. Stick with the pieces that brought him fame (1976-1988).  The initial list at the top of this thread should do, but just to reiterate:

Jagden und Formen (DG)
Time Chant (DG-Mutter)

SQs 3,5,8 (Arditti)
Music for 3 Strings (CPO/Kairos) Go w/CPO- 50min
Fremde Szenen? (piano trio-CPO/Kairos) Go w/CPO- 50min
Trio Basso Vol.1 (vla,vnc,bs-Koch Schwann) w/Kagel, Kalitzke, etc.
Clarinet Qnt (1988)???

Klavierstuck No.5-7

Chiffres (CPO 2-cd) though J+F is a culmination of this series

opera?- Conquest of Mexico

I don't even have all of these, and I have no real desire to go further. The vocal/orch pieces on Abbado's DG "wein modern" series are harrowing enough if I need to remind myself.  To find a good concerto or symphonic work you'll need someone who has already plunked down the $$$ to advise you (and how many of THEM are there?). But I won't touch it...just too much stuff.
READ AS MANY REVIEWS AS YOU CAN FIND FIRST!

But don't get me wrong. What I have, I really really butlike I said, it goes a looong way. Jagden und Formen+Mutter, or Arditti...then you're on your own!

Offline Archaic Torso of Apollo

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3372
  • Location: Chicagoland
Re: Wolfgang Rihm
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2009, 08:45:14 PM »
How about Tutuguri? Here's a review:

http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=6314

There's also a 2-disc set containing Morphophonie and some other pieces. Any1 heard it?
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

Offline petrarch

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1422
  • Luigi Nono (1924-1990)
  • Location: Boston, MA
Re: Wolfgang Rihm
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2009, 01:55:41 AM »
How about Tutuguri? Here's a review:

http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=6314

There's also a 2-disc set containing Morphophonie and some other pieces. Any1 heard it?

I have a lot of Rihm. Tutuguri is awesome and I usually dislike contemporary vocal music. Morphonie is an essential piece, as it was the one that sort of launched his career when it was premiered in Donaueschingen. A few others that stand out are Kein Firmament, Ins Offene/sphere and, of course, the 3/5/8 quartets played by the Arditti. You also won't go wrong with any of the SWR/Hanssler CDs.
//p
The music collection.
The hi-fi system: Esoteric X-03SE -> Pathos Logos -> Analysis Audio Amphitryon.
A view of the whole

snyprrr

  • Guest
Re: Wolfgang Rihm
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2009, 11:46:31 AM »
Well I just can upon an interesting surprise.

For those of you, like me, believe a little Rihm goes a long way, yet you ARE eager to try some more, here's something.

It came to my attention the Jorg Widmann had a few pieces whose titles sounded just like Rihm (Jagdquartett, Attempts at a fugue, Dunkles Saiten), and as it turns out, the clarinetist/composer is Rihm's student!
The Leipziger Quartett has recorded all of Widmann's quartets (4-last with soprano), and for someone like me who has been very satified with the Arditti 3/5/8 of Rihm, but am hesitant to delve into his later quartets, this Widmann disc really piqued my curiosity. I feel like I already know what it's going to sound like, which is, hopefully, "good" Rihm. It just seems like the perfect "arditti" disc (since they don't seem to be making too many of those anymore). Well, if anyone can find a review I'd be interested, or any personal account.

and btw- Rihm's 11th SQ...it is not mentioned in the Arditti rep. list. IS there an "11", or is it one of the short "Fetzen"? Perhaps No.11 was written for another SQ (sacre bleu!) and so it's not in their rep.

Offline petrarch

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1422
  • Luigi Nono (1924-1990)
  • Location: Boston, MA
Re: Wolfgang Rihm
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2009, 12:15:07 PM »
and btw- Rihm's 11th SQ...it is not mentioned in the Arditti rep. list. IS there an "11", or is it one of the short "Fetzen"? Perhaps No.11 was written for another SQ (sacre bleu!) and so it's not in their rep.

Rihm's 11th was written for the Takacs Quartet and remained unfinished for a long time. It was finished in 2007 and premiered earlier this year.
//p
The music collection.
The hi-fi system: Esoteric X-03SE -> Pathos Logos -> Analysis Audio Amphitryon.
A view of the whole

snyprrr

  • Guest
Re: Wolfgang Rihm
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2009, 12:26:36 AM »
Interesting.

What of Widmann? It would not be off topic to bring him in.

Anyone?

Offline petrarch

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1422
  • Luigi Nono (1924-1990)
  • Location: Boston, MA
Re: Wolfgang Rihm
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2009, 02:51:28 AM »
What of Widmann? It would not be off topic to bring him in.

I tried some Widmann yesterday, so far it is very very interesting. I'm already adding a few of his works to my list of CDs to get.
//p
The music collection.
The hi-fi system: Esoteric X-03SE -> Pathos Logos -> Analysis Audio Amphitryon.
A view of the whole

Offline UB

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 263
  • In South Africa we have really big cats!
Re: Rihm's Wolf Gang
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2009, 11:01:42 AM »
For those who are interested a Proms Composer Portrait of Widmann will shortly be on BBC R3 and then a short piece will be part of the next Proms concert...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00lwrrc
I am not in the entertainment business. Harrison Birtwistle 2010

Offline some guy

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 2148
  • Location: Somewhere else
  • Currently Listening to:
    Music
Re: Wolfgang Rihm
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2009, 01:26:52 PM »
Is [Rihm] accessible to the average, middle-of-the-road concertgoer--fun or irritating?
If it isn't accessible, then shame on the average, middle-of-the-road concertgoer, I'd say. (Last I checked, it was 2009. Why, I'm listening to Busratch and Yoshihide's Time Magic City right this minute, an hour+ extravaganza of high turntablism. Oh, it's fun!!)

Which brings me to your second point, fun or irritating. Fun or irritating to whom? That amotr concertgoer? Probably irritating. But again, that's to say nothing (NOTHING) about the music, only about the amotr concertgoer. I find Rihm to be often quite enjoyable, though not often (not often enough) as inventive or as adventurous as his older colleague, Lachenmann.

The two disc set with Morphonie and the three Klangbeschreibungen is absolutely marvelous, I'd say. And the string quartet #10 is very tasty indeed.

Offline monafam

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 131
Re: Rihm's Wolf Gang
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2009, 04:43:51 PM »
I had purchased an album that had Rihm's "Dis-Kontur für großes Orchester", "Lichtzwang-Musik für Violine und Orchester (In Memorium Paul Celan)", and "Sub-Kontur für Orchester."  I have had some difficulty appreciating them.  With no liner notes on my MP3 downloads, it's been harder to delve deeper.

Anyone care to comment on these?  Any additional thoughts that may help the "lay" listener?