The Bach Cantatas

[Scarpia]

BTW, what a great tenor was Kurt Equiluz!

Yes, the best.  It was his evangelist in the Harnoncourt St. Matthew Passion that turned me on to Bach vocal music.

[kishnevi]

And having listened to the "new" Harnoncourt recordings tonight--
the new recordings are better engineered.  Well they ought to be, given the 30 year interval   But no muffled orchestra.

And no boy sopranos--a plus in my ears, while Werner Gura sounded better in BWV 29 than Equiluz.  But Equiluz was better in BWV 61.  In BWV 140, about equal. Go figure.

But I still prefer Gardiner in BWV 61 and 140.  (Don't have anyone else in BWV 29).   The recording of BWV 140 I like least, btw,  is an absolutely somnolent performance under Karl Richter, in which the performers needed to heed that Wachet auf!  more than a little (but I keep the CD because of a glorious Magnificat that's coupled with it.)

[Marc]

Yes, the best.  It was his evangelist in the Harnoncourt St. Matthew Passion that turned me on to Bach vocal music.

I recognize this feeling. Yet in a slightly different way. As a child, I immediately got hooked on the vocal Bach, but Kurt Equiluz really convinced me of the refinement and expressiveness of Bach's recitatives.
(In arias I think that Christoph Prégardien deserves the 'crown'.)

I've been so lucky to hear Equiluz sing live in the Evangelist parts in BWV 244, 245 and 248 on several occasions. The moments he sang Jesus von Nazareth, der Juden König (SJP) and Sie schrieen aber noch mehr und sprachen (SMP) were bloodcurdling and remain unsurpassed IMO.

[Bogey]

Enjoying this volume this morning....how do the other volumes hold up?

[Marc]

Enjoying this volume this morning....how do the other volumes hold up?

Good job to bring life to this thread again!

Can't say much on Gardiner's Bach Voyage, though. I do have about a dozen DG/Archiv cantata recordings, and, in general, they do not belong to my faves. But there are Gardiner fans all around the world, that's for sure.

[Coopmv]

I still have another 45 CD's to go with this set and have most of Gardiner's and Herreweghe's cantatas and all their passions.



If the Euro drops enough against the Dollar, I may even pick up the box by Koopman ...

[kishnevi]

Enjoying this volume this morning....how do the other volumes hold up?

I don't have this particular volume, but I have 7 others from this series, and I need to get going on rounding up the rest. 
Essential response is that quality is (IMO) good throughout--or at least, generally consistent, so if you like one volume of the series, you'll probably like the rest--and if you don't care for a particular volume, you probably won't like the others.

BTW, how many total volumes are there in this series (not counting the ones issued on DG/Archiv, which I have as part of the Archiv Gardiner Bach big box)?

[Mandryka]

What do you all think of Dietrich Henschel?  I don't like him at all, I think he barks, and for that reason I haven't been very enthusiastic about  Gardiner's recordings -- but voice is a very personal thing.

Whenever I hear JEG in London he seems to get better and better in baroque choral music -- I remember some Bach motets a couple years ago which were really special, much better than the recording. No soloists in motets of course.

[Marc]

What do you all think of Dietrich Henschel?  I don't like him at all, I think he barks, and for that reason I haven't been very enthusiastic about  Gardiner's recordings -- but voice is a very personal thing.

Whenever I hear JEG in London he seems to get better and better -- I remember some motets a couple years ago which were really special, much better than the recording.

I like Henschel better as a recitative singer than in the arias.

First time I heard his voice was in the tv-series Die zweite Heimat, early nineties.
As an actor playing a conservatory singing student, he was the main singer in one of the 'premières' of modern work (we're talking about the raving sixties in this case) by the main character, Hermann W. Simon (played by Henry Arnold). Already in that particular piece (probably composed by movie composer Nikos Mamangakis), as a young bloke, he was more convincing in the reciting parts.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0378064/

[Coopmv]

What do you all think of Dietrich Henschel?  I don't like him at all, I think he barks, and for that reason I haven't been very enthusiastic about  Gardiner's recordings -- but voice is a very personal thing.

Whenever I hear JEG in London he seems to get better and better in baroque choral music -- I remember some Bach motets a couple years ago which were really special, much better than the recording. No soloists in motets of course.

Dietrich Henschel used to study voice with Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau.  The Dietrich's clearly had some affinity for each other ...     

[Bulldog]

BTW, how many total volumes are there in this series (not counting the ones issued on DG/Archiv, which I have as part of the Archiv Gardiner Bach big box)?

So far - 27 volumes (51 discs).

[Bogey]

Is the Gardiner expense due to the packaging?

[Antoine Marchand]

Is the Gardiner expense due to the packaging?

I think their 2-CD sets are not particularly expensive, if you buy them at the right place: Presto Classical. $22 every double set. Even less if you wait the right moment (beginning this year the price was $18 during some weeks). 

[Todd]

Any thoughts on whether Rilling makes sense in big box form?  The complete set is now available for a little over a buck a disc, and while I can certainly live without another complete set, it might be a good buy if the performances are good.

[jlaurson]

Any thoughts on whether Rilling makes sense in big box form?  The complete set is now available for a little over a buck a disc, and while I can certainly live without another complete set, it might be a good buy if the performances are good.

There are some really gorgeous bits in this collection... and if you are not dead-set on HIP-Bach, it's a very fine set. Occasionally I get a sense of old-fashiondness when I listen to the cantatas (I have most of them in the topically-related smaller boxes), but most of the time I love listening. (Comparative listening does not fare that well... but on-its-own-account enjoyment equals all but the averages of Koopman, Herreweghe, and Kuijken which are a cut above.)

[Todd]

There are some really gorgeous bits in this collection... and if you are not dead-set on HIP-Bach, it's a very fine set. Occasionally I get a sense of old-fashiondness when I listen to the cantatas (I have most of them in the topically-related smaller boxes), but most of the time I love listening. (Comparative listening does not fare that well... but on-its-own-account enjoyment equals all but the averages of Koopman, Herreweghe, and Kuijken which are a cut above.)

Thanks, good to know.  I'm definitely not averse to non-HIP Bach, and my only other exposure to many of the cantatas come from the Harnoncourt/Leonhardt set.  I came away from that set appreciating the playing but realizing that I vastly prefer female sopranos. 

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Any thoughts on whether Rilling makes sense in big box form?  The complete set is now available for a little over a buck a disc, and while I can certainly live without another complete set, it might be a good buy if the performances are good.

I have eight discs of Rilling's cantatas. Love them. The "oldfashiondness" jl speaks of might be a reference to the earlier recordings - the ones from the '70s are a bit more 'spread out' in conception and less concise. But still extremely good.

As he moves forward in the series the performances become more HIP influenced, with added clarity and more spunk. It's an interesting progression and fun to witness.

 

[Bulldog]

I acquired about 10 of the Rilling cantata discs.  They might still be in my home, maybe not; doesn't make much difference because I don't have any continued interest in them.  For me, Rilling doesn't hold up to the likes of Gardiner, Suzuki, Herreweghe, Harnoncourt, Rifkin, Kuijken, etc.  I'd pass even if this big set was free; it would take up valuable space and just collect dust.

I'm not saying the above as a strict adherent to period instruments.  I have the Bach cantata discs on Naxos conducted by Helmut Muller-Bruhl and find them a major improvement over the Rilling performances (Richter is also a better proposition).

[Que]

I acquired about 10 of the Rilling cantata discs.  They might still be in my home, maybe not; doesn't make much difference because I don't have any continued interest in them.  For me, Rilling doesn't hold up to the likes of Gardiner, Suzuki, Herreweghe, Harnoncourt, Rifkin, Kuijken, etc.  I'd pass even if this big set was free; it would take up valuable space and just collect dust.

I'm with you. Rilling's Bach (any) just entirely rubs me the wrong way - rhythmic treatment, phrasing  - it just sounds off.....and terribly dull. Despite some very fine singers he uses.

Q

[Marc]

I'm with you. Rilling's Bach (any) just entirely rubs me the wrong way - rhythmic treatment, phrasing  - it just sounds off.....and terribly dull. Despite some very fine singers he uses.

I have about a dozen Rilling Bach cantata discs and in general I agree with this. But yes, there are plenty Rilling admirers around the world, so ....
Maybe Todd should try to find some listening examples and check out if he can live with good old Helmuth.