The Bach Cantatas

[kishnevi]

I hope someone will comment on that new Kuijken CD when they've heard it, I'm interested in Widerstehe dich der stünde. If anyone has a special recording please let me know.

You might want to check out Youtube for Glenn Gould's CBC performance (conducting from the keyboard, which if I recall rightly was a modern piano).  I want to say Alfred Deller was the soloist,  but I'm not really certain.  I'd have to dig it out of my archival hard drive to be sure.

[Marc]

You might want to check out Youtube for Glenn Gould's CBC performance (conducting from the keyboard, which if I recall rightly was a modern piano).  I want to say Alfred Deller was the soloist,  but I'm not really certain.  I'd have to dig it out of my archival hard drive to be sure.

Russel Oberlin, whose voice was almost too beautiful to give real force to the lyrics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdgRKstfFxM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SDpIyVhZKA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1GrX32kpH4

[Octave]

Russel Oberlin, whose voice was almost too beautiful to give real force to the lyrics.

Thank you for mentioning this!  I'm certain I've heard almost none of Oberlin on record, but just a couple nights ago I saw footage of him (on cable-access TV, of all places) as Britten's Oberon, and it was something else.  I am now on a mission.
I'm assuming that these Gould/CBC cantatas found their way into that Sony-issued GLENN GOULD ON TELEVISION dvd set?  This one:



Not sure I need that much of that, but it's nice to know where the stuff is located.

[jlaurson]

You might want to check out Youtube for Glenn Gould's CBC performance (conducting from the keyboard, which if I recall rightly was a modern piano).  I want to say Alfred Deller was the soloist,  but I'm not really certain.  I'd have to dig it out of my archival hard drive to be sure.

Oberlin sings... and it's a 'Tack Piano', Gould uses... a modified, some would say "raped", Steinway, to emulate the harpsichord sound.

[Mandryka]

For cantata 54? For me, Herreweghe.




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I thought that was absolutely tremendous.

When I first played it, when the music started, I thought to myself that this is going to be just another pretty polished Hereweghe performance,  but then after about 2 minutes there's (yet) another reprise  of "widerstehe . ." And suddenly, like out of the blue, Herreweghe becomes really forceful, and I thought that from then on, the way that both the orchestra and the singer are so alert is magic. There's something organic, flowing, natural here,  Herreweghe's pulse like an urgently beating heart. And yet, it's not too muscular, accents aren't too strong, there's a lightness in the music making, and I find that very attractive.

Scholl's pretty good with the words I thought. The final movement is something I want to think about some more,  I haven't thought about this aria much.

[Mandryka]

Leonhardt is the man.

So if I have understood things correctly there are two Leonhardt recordings and no Harnoncourt performances. Shame.

[Mandryka]

Russel Oberlin, whose voice was almost too beautiful to give real force to the lyrics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdgRKstfFxM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SDpIyVhZKA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1GrX32kpH4

Agreed, and Gould's direction doesn't help much. I didn't like this performance at all.

Gould's introduction is taken from some coments Schweitzer made I think.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

I thought that was absolutely tremendous.

When I first played it, when the music started, I thought to myself that this is going to be just another pretty polished Hereweghe performance,  but then after about 2 minutes there's (yet) another reprise  of "widerstehe . ." And suddenly, like out of the blue, Herreweghe becomes really forceful, and I thought that from then on, the way that both the orchestra and the singer are so alert is magic. There's something organic, flowing, natural here,  Herreweghe's pulse like an urgently beating heart. And yet, it's not too muscular, accents aren't too strong, there's a lightness in the music making, and I find that very attractive.

Scholl's pretty good with the words I thought. The final movement is something I want to think about some more,  I haven't thought about this aria much.

Yes, Herreweghe isn't into gloss. It's the emotional content buried deep in the music he's after. It can be subtle but it's so perfectly judged it seems to unfold almost without notice, then next thing you know you're in the presence of something magical.

[Mandryka]

I'm not aware of any instance where Gardiner treats a dedicated "aria" with a chorus.  The movement being discussed is a chorale; I haven't ever seen any track listing that refers to it as an aria.

Karl Richter uses a boys' chorus for this movement.

What an astonishing performance Harnoncourt gives for BWV 6! With that desynchronised counterpoint, lines of music constantly in tense relationships with each other, the orchestra pulling the voices back here, pushing the voice forward there. I wonder if there has ever been a more disturbing performance of a Bach cantata. And how well his style suits the poem. The text says that we're balanced on a knife edge, we could easily fall either way - sin or righteousness, redemption or damnation. And the counterpoint's on a knife  edge too! Simple! Genius! 

I've decided to listen to how Harnoncourt plays that evening music towards the end of the Matthew passion today.

[prémont]

And to make things more clear: their own website makes you think we ARE finished (yet).

[....] The 17-part CD series "Cantatas of J.S. Bach" (ACCENT) [....]

http://www.lapetitebande.be/lpb.php

On the other hand, this can be read on the Presto Classical website, so did Kuijken change his plans:



Bach, J S:


Cantata BWV186 'Ärgre dich, o Seele, nicht'

Cantata BWV168 'Tue Rechnung! Donnerwort'

Cantata BWV134 'Ein Herz, das seinen Jesum lebend weiss'

Cantata BWV54 'Widerstehe doch der Sünde'



Siri Thornhill, Elisabeth Hermans, Yeree Suh (soprano), Petra Noskaiová (alto), Christoph Genz (tenor) & Jan Van der Crabben (bass)

La Petite Bande, Sigiswald Kuijken


Scheduled for release on 28 October 2013. Order it now and we will deliver it as soon as it is available.

About
.

In the beginning there was great scepticism towards the thesis that Bach's sacred vocal works were originally written for solo voices. Now this interpretation is establishing itself more and more. With this edition of one cantata for each Sunday and the great feasts of the ecclesiastical year Sigiswald Kuijken and La Petite Bande want to strengthen this new approach and prove it with their excellent performances.

This Vol. 17 of 18 offers four cantatas: one for the Seventh Sunday after Trinity, Ninth Sunday after Trinity, third day of Easter and Oculi.

[Mandryka]

During Bach's own lifetime, I think one can also find dance influences in music composed for the Paris series Concert Spirituel, as kind of a heritage of Louis XIV's preference for dance rhythms in almost every form of music. During his reign, French court composers had to write religious music, commissioned by their king, and of course they had to grant his wishes.

If Bach knew some of the 17th century French grands motets (which I think he did), he of course recognized the dance influence, and got inspired by it.

(Just a guess.)

There's a set of chorale variations in the form of a dance suite by Buxtehude, Buxwv179, based on Auf meinen lieben gott. It's nice music, my favourite of his chorale variations. I don't know if it's sacred or secular, people play it on a harpsichord (so I guess it has no pedal music) and organ. Anyway it seems that the boundaries between sacred and dance were porous.

[Marc]

On the other hand, this can be read on the Presto Classical website, so did Kuijken change his plans:
[....]This Vol. 17 of 18 offers four cantatas: one for the Seventh Sunday after Trinity, Ninth Sunday after Trinity, third day of Easter and Oculi.

This was already mentioned, causing all the questions and deep discussions about the actual amount of volumes. 

Ok. Sorry. I got the idea somewhere and now I can't find where. But I guess I'm wrong. Presto classical says "17 of 18." Sorry about that.
I'm glad we're not finished yet.

[Marc]

There's a set of chorale variations in the form of a dance suite by Buxtehude, Buxwv179, based on Auf meinen lieben gott. It's nice music, my favourite of his chorale variations. I don't know if it's sacred or secular, people play it on a harpsichord (so I guess it has no pedal music) and organ. Anyway it seems that the boundaries between sacred and dance were porous.

Well, in many cases such variations were named Partia, Partita or Partita (diverse), and in the same manner many so-called Suites were named Partita, and, indeed .... such suites existed of dances.

Of course, and this is no news to us, due to the fact that all music was still mostly considered to be a celebration of God and His Creation, sacred and secular music weren't all that different.

Apart from all that, I would not be surprised that the use of dance in vocal religious music in Europe went to a peak at the court of Louis XIV, and that this development was a significative inspritation for Bach.

[prémont]

This was already mentioned, causing all the questions and deep discussions about the actual amount of volumes. 

Sorry. Obviously I was a victim of a Sarge moment. 

[kishnevi]

Agreed, and Gould's direction doesn't help much. I didn't like this performance at all.

Gould's introduction is taken from some coments Schweitzer made I think.

Having found it and listened to it for the first time in a while,  I agree with you.  No doubt that's why I shuttled it off to the external hard drive in the first place instead of keeping it handy for listening. 

It's a good deal more interesting as a document of Gould the performer than it of the music he was performing.

[milk]

Any thoughts on this series?

[jlaurson]

Any thoughts on this series?

Yes, but not only enthusiastic ones. For OVPP, Kuijken is (where the cantatas overlap) a much more exciting proposition:

http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2009/05/ich-hatte-viel-bekummernis-bach.html

...Over the last years of listening to the various Bach Cantata cycles, whether ongoing, complete, or partial,
my reactions to them is beginning to fit a pattern: Suzuki—curious disappointment despite highlights. John
Elliot Gardiner—highest expectations not quite met. Philippe Herreweghe—uncommon delight. Ton Koopman
—modest recollection far exceeded. The Purcell Quartet—lightweight enchantment. And now there's the
One-Voice-per-Part, 1-year Bach Cantata cycle by Sigiswald Kuijken on Accent SACDs which has just reached
volume 8. I love it.

On the Magnificat:

...One should not forget the marvelous Purcell Quartet's recording (Chandos); one of their earlier forays
into Bach and at the time still radical for being One-Voice-per-Part. But even if I could somehow replace
the Purcell's counter tenor Robin Blaze with alto Bogna Bartosz, Koopman would remain my favorite
account of these splendid works... 

On BWV 161:

...Similar reasons might make Elisabeth von Magnus' opening aria "Komm, süße Todesstunde" in BWV 161
more attractive than Michael Chance's with the otherwise splendid Purcell Quartet recording (Chandos),
while the large tenor aria ("Mein Verlangen is den Heilan zu umfangen") is in good hands with either Michael
Chance (Purcell) or Agnew (Koopman). Because this cantata is sparsely orchestrated, there is much less
difference between the two contrasting HIP styles of the radical one-voice-per-part ("OVPP") Purcell Quartet
(with minimal orchestral forces; four strings, two recorders and obbligato organ here) and Koopman's, who is
among the least dogmatic original instrument Bach conductors.

On v.2:

...On Chaconne, Chandos' early music label, the Purcell Quartet released their second disc of Bach cantatas –
the second volume of Cantatas from Bach's Weimar cycle which includes "Weinen, Klagen, Sorgen, Zagen"
BWV 12, "Gleichwie der Regen und Schnee vom Himmel fällt" BWV 18, "Nun komm, der Heiden Heiland" BWV 61,
and "Komm, du süße Todesstunde" BWV 161. The Purcell Quartet is comprised of Catherin Mackintosh and
Catherin Weiss (violins/violas), Richard Boothby (cello), and Robert Wolley (organ). With a little help from
recorder, bassoon, trumpet, oboe, and three more string players, that's plenty for "HIP" Bach. That they play
on original instruments (or copies thereof) goes without saying. And the temperament of their instruments is
taken from Bradley Lehman's (Goldberg Variation tested) theory that Bach coded his preferred tuning into an
ornamental squiggle on the score of the Well Tempered Clavier.

Assuming an appreciation for the 'slim' approach to Bach in these cantatas, the disc is richly rewarding. "Weinen,
Klagen...", one of the first cantatas Bach wrote, faces the competition of the just-about-perfect Herreweghe bravely.
I still prefer the choral passages with the Collegium Vocale Ghent and counter-tenor Daniel Taylor over Michael
Chance. And while the Recitativo is fiercely swift on the Chandos disc, "Weinen, Klagen..." itself drags compared
to the quicker and generally slightly rounder, slightly more sonorous Herreweghe. But then the latter is a disc for
the ages – among the best cantata recordings I've come across. And Kirkby and the Purcell Quartet really hit their
stride in the other cantatas where their light tone, balance, and clarity are combined with almost chipper musicality.
To the extent 'chipper' is possible, given the death-heavy subject of their singing and playing.

[milk]

Lots to peruse there. Thanks! I received Kuijken 17 in the mail. It continues to enthrall me. 

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Spent a good stretch with Sir John's pilgrimage recently. Specifically about two discs' worth from this Christmas box.

Expressiveness is certainly the name of the game. All the moods seem covered. Audio is first-rate. 

It's been my habit in the past to gravitate towards a more serenely hypnotic style of performance but Gardiner's raucousness is definitely catchy.   




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[Oldnslow]

I've listened  through the first dozen of the Gardiner cantata discs on the recent big box set and am enjoying them a lot. Love the orchestral playing and choral singing. Solists range from very fine to average. On the whole a fantastic  experience. It's great listening to a CD a day. When I get through all 60 cds, I'll just start over!