The Bach Cantatas

[mc ukrneal]

I don't own and have never heard a single Bach cantata, but it's one of those things where, for a while now, I know an in-depth encounter is coming soon. And now my father got me John Eliot Gardiner's new book Bach for Christmas. So... with the cantatas... where and how do I start? What shopping ought I to do?

About two years ago, I had a similar question, although I asked for recommendations that initially focused on chorus. In any case, there were a number of good recommnedations on where to start, so just head to page 32 of this very thread. Marc and Jens were a great help and had numerous recommendations - enough that I felt I could choose the approach/sound I liked, but not so many that I was overwhelmed. In the end, I bought several of their recommendations, and all have been enjoyable. There is also that Lieberman disc that everyone raves about (with the pinkish cover).

[Octave]

[....]There is also that Lieberman disc that everyone raves about (with the pinkish cover).

[Lorraine Hunt] Lieberson, just to avoid confusion....am I correct?

Namely:

[asin]B0000AOVTI[/asin]

[Octave]

Whatever you do first off, I suggest you do not buy a full set, even though it may be tempting. In part it will depend on whether you want HIP, or can take to the older performances. I like both and have collected a bit over half the cantatas, many of the best in duplicate or triplicate. I started with the famous solo voice ones.

Much as I do enjoy the newer Gardiner cycle, none of his performances would come with me onto a desert island.

Would you care to jot out some of the great peaks, Mike-Knight?  Maybe even just several+ of the finst by your lights? 
I've spent a chunk of time in this thread, but I'm sure I'm forgetting for the moment your posts about your favored recordings.  I'd like to know, if you don't mind providing a digest!

[Wakefield]

I don't own and have never heard a single Bach cantata, but it's one of those things where, for a while now, I know an in-depth encounter is coming soon. And now my father got me John Eliot Gardiner's new book Bach for Christmas. So... with the cantatas... where and how do I start? What shopping ought I to do?

I'm reading this book, too.

Surely, it's the most egocentric book about Bach that I have ever read, as it starts with a sort of complete and lengthy (musical) biography of Gardiner himself.

[knight66]

Sure:

Vergnugte rue BWV170 Janet Baker: One of the great Bach performances, she unfurls the opening aria so beautifully. It has a good Ich habe genug with John Shirley Quirk to accompany it.

BWV56 Fischer Dieskau, an early recording injected with so much feeling, it is an astonishing performance.

BWV106, one of the funeral cantatas. Here I would recommend the earlier Gardiner performance on DG, very beautifully done.

Coffee and Peasant cantatas with the Linde consort.

Christmas cantatas, (not the same as the Christmas Oratorio), Herreweghe.

I am not at home just now, so can't trawl through my discs. But almost all can be found on Youtube.

Mike

[knight66]

I'm reading this book, too.

Surely, it's the most egocentric book about Bach that I have ever read, as it starts with a sort of complete and lengthy (musical) biography of Gardiner himself.

No surprise there, but he does pull out terrific detail on Bach's life, making him into a very rounded person and he convincingly follows a lot of themes through into the work.

Mike

[Wakefield]

Coffee and Peasant cantatas with the Linde consort.

Great recommendation! 

[mc ukrneal]

[Lorraine Hunt] Lieberson, just to avoid confusion....am I correct?

Namely:

[asin]B0000AOVTI[/asin]

Exactly! Just like I said - Lieberson!

[knight66]

Yes, no matter what it duplicates, i would recommend that disc.

Mike

[North Star]

I don't own and have never heard a single Bach cantata, but it's one of those things where, for a while now, I know an in-depth encounter is coming soon. And now my father got me John Eliot Gardiner's new book Bach for Christmas. So... with the cantatas... where and how do I start? What shopping ought I to do?

Another recommendation for that Herreweghe set that Don recommended. For single discs, Montréal Baroque with Eric Minles, Philippe Pierlot & Ricercar Consort, and Kuijken & La  Petite Bande on Accent have done some great OVPP recordings.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Another recommendation for that Herreweghe set that Don recommended.

There used to be a couple of nifty budget Herreweghe cantata boxes which were perfect for those looking to build a cantata collection in quick chunks. One of them even included texts. Sadly they're long OOP now.

But just as I write this one of those boxes has turned up (below) for pretty cheap *new* on US Amazon (alas the one without texts). But - just for completeness-sake - be aware two discs are cantatas (including the supreme BWV 131) and two discs are small-scaled masses (probably reworkings of other cantatas) which are equally glorious listening.




[asin]B000090WC6[/asin]

[mszczuj]

I have heard only two CD of Herreweghe Bach cantatas, and they were absolutely awful, so I almost decided to never listen to any Bach by Herreweghe, but there were small masses in this box as well, and they were very nice an sublime.

I can't agree that buying all canatatas in one box is a mistake, only mistake would be to finish buying after this.

For my taste most interesting completes are those of Leonhardt/Harnoncourt and Leusink.

[Mandryka]

For my taste most interesting completes are those of Leonhardt/Harnoncourt and Leusink.

I'm glad someone said that. There are some things I've heard which really aren't very good in Leusink's box, but surprisingly often I find myself bowled over by the zone-ness of the music making. I know someone else who feels strongly negative about Herreweghe like you do, and some of the things I've heard are too beautiful for me. But still lots of the things I've heard have been pretty inspiring too.

Re the original question which started this little discussion. My original thought was that the best way to get into this stuff is to pick a popular cantata like Ich Habe Genug and just explore it on youtube or spotify. Find an artist you like in that cantata and then explore some of their recordings. You can see just by the comments about Herreweghe and Harnoncourt and Koopman and Bruegghen and Richter in this thread, people don't hear the same thing when they hear the same performances. It's like that always with vocal music I find -- you have to find what sort of voices turn you on.

The on;y other thing I'd say is that my own way into this music was initially via Harnoncourt -- not the whole set, I bought some odd boxes. I remember being knocked out by the textures -- I'd never heard anything like it before. I'd heard Hotter singing BWV 82 but that was about it.  And then I remember really enjoying Richter's box of Easter cantatas, really because of Fischer Dieskau. And then.in the 1980s, I learnt a lot from Hans-Joachim Roitsch. The latter was a great way to get acquainted with a load of cantatas. There were also some single disks which really meant a lot to me -- one with Stich-Randall and Felix Prohaska esp[ecially, And the  one with Peter Pears conducted by Richter. One with Jurgen Jurgens I recall too . That was my way into this music.

[prémont]

I'm reading this book, too.

Surely, it's the most egocentric book about Bach that I have ever read, as it starts with a sort of complete and lengthy (musical) biography of Gardiner himself.

So even if I recently acquired the cpt. Gardiner Pilgrimage set, I think I may let this book pass by. Please let me know, if you find the book interesting.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Re the original question which started this little discussion. My original thought was that the best way to get into this stuff is to pick a popular cantata like Ich Habe Genug and just explore it on youtube or spotify. Find an artist you like in that cantata and then explore some of their recordings. You can see just by the comments about Herreweghe and Harnoncourt and Koopman and Bruegghen and Richter in this thread, people don't hear the same thing when they hear the same performances. It's like that always with vocal music I find -- you have to find what sort of voices turn you on.

+1

[Wakefield]

So even if I recently acquired the cpt. Gardiner Pilgrimage set, I think I may let this book pass by. Please let me know, if you find the book interesting.

I'm delighted you have acquired the Gardiner set on SDG. I purchased all its individual volumes and I have never regreted it. On the contrary, the last years Gardiner's approach has consistently grown on me, including his previous disks on Archiv (some of which are simply outstanding).

I believe I will have an opinion on his book the next weeks. Anyway, I'd like to clarify I used the word "egocentric" in a sense merely descriptive, not derogatory at all. "Egocentric" (biographic, if you prefer) as usually are the liner notes of the SDG recordings.

Coincidentally, yesterday I decided this one would be the listening of this day:

[asin]B000VR0548[/asin]

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Coincidentally, yesterday I decided this one would be the listening of this day:

[asin]B000VR0548[/asin]

Wonderful disc.

[Wakefield]

Wonderful disc.

No doubt, it's a little gem.

An end worth of this pilgrimage. That motet at the begining was an intelligent move.

At some points the emotion is almost physical, as when Gillian Keith sings the aria "Stein, der über alle Schätze." 

[HIPster]

No doubt, it's a little gem.

An end worth of this pilgrimage. That motet at the begining was an intelligent move.

At some points the emotion is almost physical, as when Gillian Keith sings the aria "Stein, der über alle Schätze." 

Okay - ordered!   

Thanks, DD and Gordo.

[prémont]

I'm delighted you have acquired the Gardiner set on SDG. I purchased all its individual volumes and I have never regreted it. On the contrary, the last years Gardiner's approach has consistently grown on me, including his previous disks on Archiv (some of which are simply outstanding).

I got the Archiv-set half a year ago and this made me want to get the Pilgrimage set too.

[asin]B000VR0548[/asin]

Strangely enough this is vol.56 (not vol. 16) of the complete set, I have. Never-the-less I am going to listen to it to night.