The Bach Cantatas

[Dancing Divertimentian]

I think you would love her voice. It has a sort of charming boyish quality.

IIRC, Marc criticized sometime her mastering of the German (which I'm not able to judge). 

Thanks for the tip, Gordo. I'll do some researching.

[DavidW]

I've never heard Ruth Holton

The Christmas Oratorio with Gardiner springs to mind. 

She is a great soprano.  I think when I identify the cantatas I like in the brilliant box, she is always the singer.

[torut]

No, "the hyperactive children" I was referring to, were the Cafe Zimmerman members. 

I see. The choir of Leusink's recording is Holland Boys Choir, but soprano soloists are female. I think the soprano soloists of Harnoncourt / Leonhardt complete Bach sacred cantatas were boy sopranos. I confused it with this new recording, sorry.

[torut]

I've never heard Ruth Holton but some secular cantata recordings I like are:

Thank you for your recommendation, Dancing Divertimentian. I would like to check them.
The first Bach Cantatas disc I purchased was this Gardiner CD, with Ruth Holton as the soprano soloist. This is very good, and I listened to it many times.
[asin]B00004XPU6[/asin]

[Dancing Divertimentian]

The Christmas Oratorio with Gardiner springs to mind. 

She is a great soprano.  I think when I identify the cantatas I like in the brilliant box, she is always the singer.

Hmm...lots of ringing endorsements. I'll definitely have to check her out. Thanks, Dave (& everyone).

[Ken B]

  A question about Bach's Cantatas:

  Bach wrote over 200 cantatas, I own 14 of them (namely 4,8,27,44,51,59,78,80,140,147,158,173,184 and 189) providing well over 2.5 hours of music. I would like to know if it is worth buying more cantatas or have I gotten the "gist" of them? I guess what I am trying to ask is will I hear new melodies or music if you will or does it get to the point where its just variations on melodies (music) used in other cantatas?


  I would appreciate any feedback


   marvin

Well worth exploring, and there are good sets of various sizes at decent prices. You lack 106, Actus Tragicus, my favorite, and I have heard every one.

[Marc]

Thank you for your recommendation, Dancing Divertimentian. I would like to check them.
The first Bach Cantatas disc I purchased was this Gardiner CD, with Ruth Holton as the soprano soloist. This is very good, and I listened to it many times.
[asin]B00004XPU6[/asin]

I like Ruth Holton's contribution to this recording very much, too. Compared to that, I found her disappointing in Leusink's integral about 10 years later, so I hear no positive development. Apparently she was better coached by Gardiner. But I have to admit: the Leusink set as a whole is far from my favourite. The whole project sounds like rush work to me.

The Christmas Oratorio with Gardiner springs to mind. 
[....]

IIRC, Nancy Argenta is the soprano here. Ruth Holton only sings the small Angel part in the 2nd cantata.  Btw: as a soloist, I prefer Argenta to Holton. In general, she's more able to express the lyrics. One of my 'Argenta favourites' is the way she sings the aria Zerfließe, mein Herze, in Fluten der Zähren from the Johannes-Passion, conducted by Gardiner.

[Marc]

Oh, if you want to hear and see Ruth Holton in better shape, looking very British, singing good with fine articulation (those British choristers sure know their Latin!), then you might want to check this one out:



http://www.amazon.com/Bach-Matthias-Rexroth-Christoph-Mertens/dp/B000F6YWLM/

[torut]

I like Ruth Holton's contribution to this recording very much, too. Compared to that, I found her disappointing in Leusink's integral about 10 years later, so I hear no positive development. Apparently she was better coached by Gardiner. But I have to admit: the Leusink set as a whole is far from my favourite. The whole project sounds like rush work to me.

I feel that Gardiner's and Koopman's recordings are better than Leusink's in terms of overall quality. Also, although I do not dislike Buwalda, I prefer mezzo-soprano for alto to countertenor. However, somehow I have intimate feeling with Leusink's performance,  and it is nice for casual hearing. 

IIRC, Nancy Argenta is the soprano here. Ruth Holton only sings the small Angel part in the 2nd cantata.  Btw: as a soloist, I prefer Argenta to Holton. In general, she's more able to express the lyrics. One of my 'Argenta favourites' is the way she sings the aria Zerfließe, mein Herze, in Fluten der Zähren from the Johannes-Passion, conducted by Gardiner.

Bach Cantatas Website lists recordings of Bach cantatas & volcal works by each performer. Unfortunatelly, Argenta didn't record many Bach Cantatas.
Argenta Nancy's Recordings of Bach Cantatas & Other Vocal Works
Ruth Holton's Recordings of Bach Cantatas & Other Vocal Works

[Marc]

[....]
Bach Cantatas Website lists recordings of Bach cantatas & volcal works by each performer. Unfortunatelly, Argenta didn't record many Bach Cantatas.
Argenta Nancy's Recordings of Bach Cantatas & Other Vocal Works
Ruth Holton's Recordings of Bach Cantatas & Other Vocal Works

Yep.
That website is a treasure for every Bachoholic!

I like Argenta very much in one of my personal favourites: BWV 84 Ich bin vergnügt mit meinem Glücke, with Monica Huggett's Ensemble Sonnerie.

[DavidW]

I feel that Gardiner's and Koopman's recordings are better than Leusink's in terms of overall quality.

I put all three in the third tier.  Second tier for me is Harnoncourt, Leonhardt, Rilling, and Richter.  First tier for me is Herreweghe, Kuijken and Suzuki.

[torut]

I put all three in the third tier.  Second tier for me is Harnoncourt, Leonhardt, Rilling, and Richter.  First tier for me is Herreweghe, Kuijken and Suzuki.

I only have/heard the third tier.  I am interested in different style of playing, for example, OVPP, modern/HIP/period, etc. Does Rilling use modern instruments? Kuijken is OVPP?

[DavidW]

I only have/heard the third tier.  I am interested in different style of playing, for example, OVPP, modern/HIP/period, etc. Does Rilling use modern instruments? Kuijken is OVPP?

Yes Rilling uses modern instruments and yes Kuijken is OVPP.  I don't think I always agree with that.  His recording of the St. John Passion sounds a little too intimate imo.

[torut]

Yes Rilling uses modern instruments and yes Kuijken is OVPP.  I don't think I always agree with that.  His recording of the St. John Passion sounds a little too intimate imo.

Thank you. Kuijken seems interesting.

How do you think about mezzo-soprano v countertenor for alto part? I think Suzuki uses countertenor. Do you have preference, or don't care?

[DavidW]

No preference.

[Ken B]

I put all three in the third tier.  Second tier for me is Harnoncourt, Leonhardt, Rilling, and Richter.  First tier for me is Herreweghe, Kuijken and Suzuki.

Eek. Rilling is just so dull. Not actively awful but sooooooooooo dull.
I have not heard Richter in years but remember liking them a lot. I need to hunt some down, I had a bunch om vinyl.

[jlaurson]

Thank you. Kuijken seems interesting.

How do you think about mezzo-soprano v countertenor for alto part? I think Suzuki uses countertenor. Do you have preference, or don't care?

The Kuijken's 1-year cycle on ACCENT is just fantastic. Riveting. Not because of the ideology (OVPP) but because of the results.

http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2010/12/best-recordings-of-2010-7.html
http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2009/12/best-recordings-of-2008-almost-list.html
http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2013/04/dip-your-ears-no-133-bach-motets.html

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Eek. Rilling is just so dull. Not actively awful but sooooooooooo dull.

I certainly agree with Dave, here. Rilling does fine work. Derision is out of place.

[DavidW]

The Kuijken's 1-year cycle on ACCENT is just fantastic. Riveting. Not because of the ideology (OVPP) but because of the results.

This is perfectly what I think.

[kishnevi]

Eek. Rilling is just so dull. Not actively awful but sooooooooooo dull.
I have not heard Richter in years but remember liking them a lot. I need to hunt some down, I had a bunch om vinyl.

He's much better than that.   The only reason he's further down on my list is because I prefer HIP. 

My list, btw, is rather short, since I've only got three complete cycles, and a bunch of Herreweghe.

Gardiner>Herreweghe>Harnoncourt/Leonhardt>Rilling

Part of my non-preference for H/L is that I have hard time with boy sopranos.

I once did a direct comparison of Rilling and Harnoncourt in the "big" choral works (Passlons, B Minor Mass, Christmas Oratorio).    MI Rilling beat PI Harnoncourt in all of them.

ETA:  As it happens, I'm listening to one of the CDs in the Hanssler box devoted to the four part chorales--Rilling provides an intermix of organ, choral, and solo voices;  the whole comes off very well.  In the Teldec box, these chorales were sung by the Rundfunkchor Berlin, directed by Robin Gritton--a somewhat different approach from Rilling's which worked, in my memory, equally well.