The Bach Cantatas

[kishnevi]

Bach wrote cantatas cycles for three full years.  So even if a series is limited to the Leipzig cantatas,  a "one year" cycle would by definition be approximately one third of his cantatas.

Of course, that leaves out of consideration the cantatas not linked to the liturgical calendar, the cantatas written before his arrival in Leipzig which were not recycled for use at the Thomaskirche, and those cantatas which have not survived.

One nice thing about the Gardiner set is that the cantatas are organized by liturgical date, so all the cantatas written for the (blind example) Feast of the Visitation are together.  My other two sets (Rilling and Leonhardt=Harnoncourt) are organized by straight BWV number (at least in the form I have them, as part of the Hanssler and Teldec complete boxes)  A faint memory says that Suzuki and Koopman also organized their cycles by liturgical date.  Can someone please confirm or correct that?

Speaking of the Hanssler set, I am now listening to the very last CD of the segment devoted to the four part chorales (ie, the choral chorales, as opposed to the organ chorales)  I liked the whole segment, as was the case when I listened to the versions in the Teldec box (conducted by Robin Gritton).  It seems to be an under-represented part of Bach's cycle.  I don't recall ever seeing any mention of recordings outside of these complete sets,  but I think anyone interested in Bach's work for church should investigate these chorales  as well.

[milk]

According to this site, the number of Kuijken's Bach Cantatas discs will be 20. So, only 2 are remaining.
I mistakenly thought that Kuijken would record all the cantatas for the church year. Because Bach usually composed multiple cantatas for each church day, the total number of church year cantatas is about ~190. If it will be really 20 CDs set, even many church year cantatas will not be recorded? So far, the recorded cantatas are as following.

volume 1 BWV 98, 180, 56, 55
volume 2 BWV 177, 93, 135
volume 3 BWV 82, 178, 102
volume 4 BWV 16, 153, 65, 154
volume 5 BWV 179, 35, 164, 17
volume 6 BWV 18, 23, 1
volume 7 BWV 20, 2, 10
volume 8 BWV 13, 73, 144, 81
volume 9 BWV 61, 36, 62, 132
volume 10 BWV 11, 44, 86, 108
volume 11 BWV 12, 67, 85
volume 12 BWV 138, 27, 47, 96
volume 13 BWV 249, 6
volume 14 BWV 91, 57, 151 & 122
volume 15 BWV 52, 60, 116 & 140
volume 16 BWV 34, 173, 184, 129
volume 17 BWV 54, 134, 168 & 186
volume 18 BWV 70, 9, 182

Thanks for this list. If I've read the explanations for the liturgical year correctly, and I'm not confident I have, it looks like there may be room for a redundancy of church days in the final recordings. But I'm not at all sure I've got this figured out.

[Wakefield]

Bach wrote cantatas cycles for three full years...

Just to add an additional issue, when Forkel lists Bach' output, he refers "five complete sets of Church cantatas for the Sundays and festivals of the year"... And he also speaks of five passions (following the Nekrolog, apparently). 

[torut]

Thanks for this list. If I've read the explanations for the liturgical year correctly, and I'm not confident I have, it looks like there may be room for a redundancy of church days in the final recordings. But I'm not at all sure I've got this figured out.

I haven't checked everything, but for example, volume 9 contains BWV 36, 61 and 62, which are all for Advent I, composed in 1731, 1714 and 1724, respectively. So, it seems that there is no strict rule... (I may still misunderstand something.  )

Advent I

  Romans 13:11–14, night is advanced, day will come
  Matthew 21:1–9, the Entry into Jerusalem

  Nun komm, der Heiden Heiland, BWV 61, 2 December 1714
  Nun komm, der Heiden Heiland, BWV 62, 3 December 1724
  Schwingt freudig euch empor, BWV 36, 2 December 1731 (final version)

[milk]

I haven't checked everything, but for example, volume 9 contains BWV 36, 61 and 62, which are all for Advent I, composed in 1731, 1714 and 1724, respectively. So, it seems that there is no strict rule... (I may still misunderstand something.  )

Advent I

  Romans 13:11–14, night is advanced, day will come
  Matthew 21:1–9, the Entry into Jerusalem

  Nun komm, der Heiden Heiland, BWV 61, 2 December 1714
  Nun komm, der Heiden Heiland, BWV 62, 3 December 1724
  Schwingt freudig euch empor, BWV 36, 2 December 1731 (final version)

Oh! I see. I didn't realize that. So there's already redundancy.

[The new erato]

Just to add an additional issue, when Forkel lists Bach' output, he refers "five complete sets of Church cantatas for the Sundays and festivals of the year"... And he also speaks of five passions (following the Nekrolog, apparently). 

IS that the difference between what Bach wrote, and what actually survived?

[Marc]

I haven't checked everything, but for example, volume 9 contains BWV 36, 61 and 62, which are all for Advent I, composed in 1731, 1714 and 1724, respectively. So, it seems that there is no strict rule... (I may still misunderstand something.  )

Advent I

  Romans 13:11–14, night is advanced, day will come
  Matthew 21:1–9, the Entry into Jerusalem

  Nun komm, der Heiden Heiland, BWV 61, 2 December 1714
  Nun komm, der Heiden Heiland, BWV 62, 3 December 1724
  Schwingt freudig euch empor, BWV 36, 2 December 1731 (final version)

That's because of the fact that in Leipzig there were no cantata performances on Advent 2-4, because those three weeks were a period of Abstinence.

This practice was not the same for every Lutheran community. In Weimar Bach wrote Cantatas for all 4 Advent Sundays (BWV 61, 70a, 186a and 132). 70a and 186a are now lost and therefore not performed by Kuijken, I guess. Of both works there are reconstructions available though.
70a is the easiest to do: just leave out the recitatives and the first chorale. BWV 186a is a more difficult job, but there is a reconstruction published by former Leipzig cantor Diethard Hellmann (1928-1999):

http://www.carus-verlag.com/index.php3?BLink=KKWerk&WerkID=3378

IS that the difference between what Bach wrote, and what actually survived?

Yes, probably.
Some scholars think that about 100 cantatas got lost, others say that the loss is limited to about 50 cantatas.

I.c. the passions it's complicated: we only know of two complete passions that survived.
But maybe Bach wrote a Passion Oratorio during his Weimar period and took some movements from it for the SMP (O, Mensch, bewein dein Sünde groß and for the 1725 version of the SJP (again O Mensch .... and probably also the added arias Himmel reiße, Welt erbebe, Zerschmettert mich, ihr Felsen und ihr Hügel and Ach windet euch nicht so, geplagte Seelen).
So that would be no. 3.
Then there's the Markus-Passion BWV 247, which got lost and has been reconstructed several times, mostly with the 'help' of the Trauer-Ode BWV 198). So that's no. 4.
About no. 5: some think that the apocryphal Lukas-Passion BWV 246 was meant, but there's also the possibility that CPE Bach (and Forkel) considered the 1724/1739/1749 and the 1725 versions of the Johannes-Passion as two different works.

[torut]

That's because of the fact that in Leipzig there were no cantata performances on Advent 2-4, because those three weeks were a period of Abstinence.

This practice was not the same for every Lutheran community. In Weimar Bach wrote Cantatas for all 4 Advent Sundays (BWV 61, 70a, 186a and 132). 70a and 186a are now lost and therefore not performed by Kuijken, I guess. Of both works there are reconstructions available though.
70a is the easiest to do: just leave out the recitatives and the first chorale. BWV 186a is a more difficult job, but there is a reconstruction published by former Leipzig cantor Diethard Hellmann (1928-1999):

http://www.carus-verlag.com/index.php3?BLink=KKWerk&WerkID=3378

Thank you, I understood.
Regarding Kuijken recordings, I checked what were recorded (shown in red below). It seems that he is recording at least one cantata for each church day, with some exceptions. (For some reason, he recorded all the cantatas for Advent I.) I wish he will record BWV 51. 

List of Bach cantatas by liturgical function

Advent I: 61, 62, 36
Advent II: 70a
Advent III: 186a
Advent IV: 132, 147a

Christmas: 63, 91, 110, 197a, 191
2nd day Christmas: 40, 121, 57
3rd day Christmas: 64, 133, 151
Christmas I: 152, 122, 28
New Year's Day: 190, 41, 16, 171
New Year I: 153, 58

Epiphany: 65, 123
Epiphany I: 154, 124, 32
Epiphany II: 155, 3, 13
Epiphany III: 73, 111, 72, 156
Ephiphany IV: 81, 14
Septuagesima: 144, 92, 84
Sexagesima: 18, 181, 126
Estomihi: 22, 23, 127, 159

Lent
Oculi: 54, 80a
Palm Sunday: 182, 1

Easter Sunday: 4, 31
Easter Monday: 66, 6
Easter Tuesday: 134, 145, 158
Easter I: 67, 42
Easter II: 104, 85, 112
Easter III: 12, 103, 146
Easter IV: 166, 108
Easter V: 86, 87
Ascension: 37, 128, 43, 11
Ascension I: 44, 183

Pentecost Sunday: 172, 59, 74, 34
Pentecost Monday 173, 68, 174
Pentecost Tuesday: 184, 175

Trinity: 165, 176, 129
Trinity I: 75, 20, 39
Trinity II: 76, 2
Trinity III: 21, 135
Trinity IV: 185, 24, 177
Trinity V: 93, 88
Trinity VI: 170, 9
Trinity VII: 54, 186, 107, 187
Trinity VIII: 136, 178, 45
Trinity IX: 105, 94, 168
Trinity X: 46, 101, 102
Trinity XI: 199, 179, 113
Trinity XII: 69a, 137, 35
Trinity XIII: 77, 33, 164
Trinity XIV: 25, 78, 17
Trinity XV: 138, 99, 51
Trinity XVI: 161, 95, 8, 27
Trinity XVII: 148, 114, 47
Trinity XVIII: 96, 169
Trinity XIX: 48, 5, 56
Trinity XX: 162, 180, 49
Trinity XXI: 109, 38, 98, 188
Trinity XXII: 89, 115, 55
Trinity XXIII: 163, 139, 52
Trinity XXIV: 60, 26
Trinity XXV: 90, 116
Trinity XXVI: 70
Trinity XXVII: 140

Fixed festivals within the Liturgical Year
Purification: 83, 125, 82, 157, 158
Annunciation: 182, 1 (Palm Sunday)
St. John's Day: 167, 7, 30
Visitation: 147, 10
St. Michael's Day: 130, 19, 149, 50
Reformation Day: 79, 80, 129

[Marc]

Torut, you really dug deep into this!

In a way, it's a pity that Kuijken recorded BWV 9 for Volume 18 instead of BWV 170, because, before this particular series for Accent, he already recorded BWV 9 in OVPP for Deutsche Harmonia Mundi (though not on a hybrid SACD). It also includes BWV 94 (Trinity IX) and 187 (Trinity VII).

If you're interested, here's the one:



http://www.amazon.com/Bach-Cantatas-Petite-Bande-Kuijken/dp/B000053ZJW/?tag=goodmusicguideco

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bach-Cantatas-Petite-Bande-Kuijken/dp/B000053ZJW/?tag=goodmusicguid-21

[torut]

Torut, you really dug deep into this!

In a way, it's a pity that Kuijken recorded BWV 9 for Volume 18 instead of BWV 170, because, before this particular series for Accent, he already recorded BWV 9 in OVPP for Deutsche Harmonia Mundi (though not on a hybrid SACD). It also includes BWV 94 (Trinity IX) and 187 (Trinity VII).

If you're interested, here's the one:

http://www.amazon.com/Bach-Cantatas-Petite-Bande-Kuijken/dp/B000053ZJW/?tag=goodmusicguideco

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bach-Cantatas-Petite-Bande-Kuijken/dp/B000053ZJW/?tag=goodmusicguid-21

Thank you. I am not obsessive about Kuijken, but this is a good opportunity to become familiar with the church year.  All the info is available at wikipedia, but it is convenient for me to have a simplified list.
Regarding Kuijken's selection, it is interesting (& unfortunate) that some famous/good cantatas are omitted because of the limitation: no 147 because of already recorded 10, no 21 because of 135, no 51 because of 138, etc. The selected cantatas are almost evenly from Weimar years and Leipzig years.

[jlaurson]

Thanks for that list! Very helpful indeed.

I remember in the liner notes something about doing all the Advent I Cantatas, because there are none (that survived) for the rest of the season.

Thank you, I understood.
Regarding Kuijken recordings, I checked what were recorded (shown in red below). It seems that he is recording at least one cantata for each church day, with some exceptions. (For some reason, he recorded all the cantatas for Advent I.) I wish he will record BWV 51. 

List of Bach cantatas by liturgical function

Advent I: 61, 62, 36
Advent II: 70a
Advent III: 186a
Advent IV: 132, 147a

Christmas: 63, 91, 110, 197a, 191
2nd day Christmas: 40, 121, 57
3rd day Christmas: 64, 133, 151
Christmas I: 152, 122, 28
New Year's Day: 190, 41, 16, 171
New Year I: 153, 58

Epiphany: 65, 123
Epiphany I: 154, 124, 32
Epiphany II: 155, 3, 13
Epiphany III: 73, 111, 72, 156
Ephiphany IV: 81, 14
Septuagesima: 144, 92, 84
Sexagesima: 18, 181, 126
Estomihi: 22, 23, 127, 159

Lent
Oculi: 54, 80a
Palm Sunday: 182, 1

Easter Sunday: 4, 31
Easter Monday: 66, 6
Easter Tuesday: 134, 145, 158
Easter I: 67, 42
Easter II: 104, 85, 112
Easter III: 12, 103, 146
Easter IV: 166, 108
Easter V: 86, 87
Ascension: 37, 128, 43, 11
Ascension I: 44, 183

Pentecost Sunday: 172, 59, 74, 34
Pentecost Monday 173, 68, 174
Pentecost Tuesday: 184, 175

Trinity: 165, 176, 129
Trinity I: 75, 20, 39
Trinity II: 76, 2
Trinity III: 21, 135
Trinity IV: 185, 24, 177
Trinity V: 93, 88
Trinity VI: 170, 9
Trinity VII: 54, 186, 107, 187
Trinity VIII: 136, 178, 45
Trinity IX: 105, 94, 168
Trinity X: 46, 101, 102
Trinity XI: 199, 179, 113
Trinity XII: 69a, 137, 35
Trinity XIII: 77, 33, 164
Trinity XIV: 25, 78, 17
Trinity XV: 138, 99, 51
Trinity XVI: 161, 95, 8, 27
Trinity XVII: 148, 114, 47
Trinity XVIII: 96, 169
Trinity XIX: 48, 5, 56
Trinity XX: 162, 180, 49
Trinity XXI: 109, 38, 98, 188
Trinity XXII: 89, 115, 55
Trinity XXIII: 163, 139, 52
Trinity XXIV: 60, 26
Trinity XXV: 90, 116
Trinity XXVI: 70
Trinity XXVII: 140

Fixed festivals within the Liturgical Year
Purification: 83, 125, 82, 157, 158
Annunciation: 182, 1 (Palm Sunday)
St. John's Day: 167, 7, 30
Visitation: 147, 10
St. Michael's Day: 130, 19, 149, 50
Reformation Day: 79, 80, 129

[Moonfish]

Torut, you really dug deep into this!

In a way, it's a pity that Kuijken recorded BWV 9 for Volume 18 instead of BWV 170, because, before this particular series for Accent, he already recorded BWV 9 in OVPP for Deutsche Harmonia Mundi (though not on a hybrid SACD). It also includes BWV 94 (Trinity IX) and 187 (Trinity VII).

If you're interested, here's the one:



http://www.amazon.com/Bach-Cantatas-Petite-Bande-Kuijken/dp/B000053ZJW/?tag=goodmusicguideco

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bach-Cantatas-Petite-Bande-Kuijken/dp/B000053ZJW/?tag=goodmusicguid-21

The disk is included in the 2012 DHM Kuijken box

[asin] B007AR7QZI[/asin]

[Mandryka]

Torut, you really dug deep into this!

In a way, it's a pity that Kuijken recorded BWV 9 for Volume 18 instead of BWV 170, because, before this particular series for Accent, he already recorded BWV 9 in OVPP for Deutsche Harmonia Mundi (though not on a hybrid SACD). It also includes BWV 94 (Trinity IX) and 187 (Trinity VII).

If you're interested, here's the one:



http://www.amazon.com/Bach-Cantatas-Petite-Bande-Kuijken/dp/B000053ZJW/?tag=goodmusicguideco

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bach-Cantatas-Petite-Bande-Kuijken/dp/B000053ZJW/?tag=goodmusicguid-21

So am I right to conclude that Kuijken has not recorded BWV 170? (Magdalena Kožená has recorded with Reinhard Goebel, I like her voice for reasons I can't explain.)

I'm exploring this cantata a lot right now, and so any suggestions for ones to listen to would be appreciated.

[Marc]

So am I right to conclude that Kuijken has not recorded BWV 170? (Magdalena Kožená has recorded with Reinhard Goebel, I like her voice for reasons I can't explain.)

I'm exploring this cantata a lot right now, and so any suggestions for ones to listen to would be appreciated.

Not to my knowledge.

For some useful info, check this out:

http://www.bach-cantatas.com/BWV170.htm

[jlaurson]

I haven't checked everything, but for example, volume 9 contains BWV 36, 61 and 62, which are all for Advent I, composed in 1731, 1714 and 1724, respectively. So, it seems that there is no strict rule... (I may still misunderstand something.  )

Advent I

  Romans 13:11–14, night is advanced, day will come
  Matthew 21:1–9, the Entry into Jerusalem

  Nun komm, der Heiden Heiland, BWV 61, 2 December 1714
  Nun komm, der Heiden Heiland, BWV 62, 3 December 1724
  Schwingt freudig euch empor, BWV 36, 2 December 1731 (final version)

Wasn't that a compromise simply because there are no cantatas that have survived that were written for the other Advent Sundays?

[kishnevi]

Wasn't that a compromise simply because there are no cantatas that have survived that were written for the other Advent Sundays?

I thought Advent, being a penitential period, was usually left canata free on purpose (withbthe added benefit of allowing more time to prepare for the batch of festal days in Christmas which called for more than the usual weekly cantata)?

[torut]

Wasn't that a compromise simply because there are no cantatas that have survived that were written for the other Advent Sundays?

I thought Advent, being a penitential period, was usually left canata free on purpose (withbthe added benefit of allowing more time to prepare for the batch of festal days in Christmas which called for more than the usual weekly cantata)?

According to Marc:

That's because of the fact that in Leipzig there were no cantata performances on Advent 2-4, because those three weeks were a period of Abstinence.

This practice was not the same for every Lutheran community. In Weimar Bach wrote Cantatas for all 4 Advent Sundays (BWV 61, 70a, 186a and 132). 70a and 186a are now lost and therefore not performed by Kuijken, I guess. Of both works there are reconstructions available though. [...]

It seems that BWV 61, 62 and 36 for Advent I were recorded because 70a (II) & 186a (III) are lost...? (BWV 132 for Advent IV was recorded.)

Advent I: 61, 62, 36
Advent II: 70a
Advent III: 186a
Advent IV: 132, 147a

[Marc]

Listened to BWV 125 Mit Fried und Freud ich fahr dahin, one of my favourites.

Here's a very good live performance by Philippe Herreweghe and his 'gang', performed in September 2012 (Vredenburg, Utrecht, NL).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8UyNOCsk8Q

or

http://baroquemusings.blogspot.fr/2014/07/bach-0125-herreweghe.html

[North Star]

Listened to BWV 125 Mit Fried und Freud ich fahr dahin, one of my favourites.

Here's a very good live performance by Philippe Herreweghe and his 'gang', performed in September 2012 (Vredenburg, Utrecht, NL).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8UyNOCsk8Q

Listening to this now, very good performance indeed, and the cantata itself is wonderful of course.

[jlaurson]

Listened to BWV 125 Mit Fried und Freud ich fahr dahin, one of my favourites.

Here's a very good live performance by Philippe Herreweghe and his 'gang', performed in September 2012 (Vredenburg, Utrecht, NL).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8UyNOCsk8Q

or

http://baroquemusings.blogspot.fr/2014/07/bach-0125-herreweghe.html

It's never surprising that a Herreweghe performance should be sublime or nearly so.

I'm starting almost every day with a few Bach cantatas; yesterday and today it was:

Erforsche mich, Gott, und erfahre mein Herz (BWV 136)

Erwuenschtes Freudenlich (BWV 184)

Herr, gehe nicht ins Gericht (BWV 105)

Bringet dem Herrn Ehre seines Namens (BWV 148)



J. S.  B a c h, The Cantatas (v.7)
Ton Koopman / Amsterdam Baroque Orchestra & Choir
ERATO
German link - UK link