Pettersson's Pavilion

Started by BachQ, April 08, 2007, 03:16:51 AM

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Atriod

Great performance. And what a whopper of a double header with Götterdämmerung's Act 3 just before it.


Mirror Image

#1241
Quote from: Leo K. on January 30, 2024, 07:42:33 AMI am finally discovering Pettersson thanks to iTunes carrying the Complete Edition on BIS. So far, I have listened to the 8th and right now I am in the 4th. I am all in.

Welcome to the abyss. 8) The 8th might be my favorite Pettersson overall, but I'm going to go through all of them again once I receive the Complete BIS set.

Pettersson obviously isn't for everyone, but there's something about his music that puts me at ease and this is strange as it should be doing the opposite! I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't buy into all of the "pain and suffering" nonsense that I've heard someone like David Hurwitz say about him. Pettersson's music is darkly beautiful, but also there's a haunting atmosphere to it that is totally singular and unique to him. I've truly come around to his music a lot over the years.

My hope is that others are able to put aside their own emotional baggage and just listen to brilliance of his music. His sound-world is unlike anyone else's.

Special edit: I do not want to undermine that Pettersson wasn't suffering or that it's not of any importance, because the man was clearly in physical pain for much of his life due to rheumatoid arthritis, which left him practically immobile. I just don't think all of his music should be put through this kind of imagery since there's obviously more to his music than that of a man who "suffers for his art".
"Music is not a salvation, but it helps you to endure...endure until you finally can lay down and rest." ― Allan Pettersson

Mirror Image

Quote from: Atriod on March 06, 2024, 04:04:37 PMGreat performance. And what a whopper of a double header with Götterdämmerung's Act 3 just before it.



I like this recording very much, indeed, but I'm not sure I would say I favor it over Segerstam or Comissiona.
"Music is not a salvation, but it helps you to endure...endure until you finally can lay down and rest." ― Allan Pettersson

foxandpeng

Quote from: vers la flamme on December 04, 2023, 02:32:20 PMA shame indeed. Lindberg's recordings are the best I've heard, to my ears.

Listening to his choral 12th for the first time and enjoying it greatly. I suppose it's just about exactly as I expected it to be. Lindberg on BIS is the one I have.

I wonder if anyone has heard this recording:



Waiting for delayed trains at Nuneaton. Seems appropriate to play Pettersson #12.
"A quiet secluded life in the country, with the possibility of being useful to people ... then work which one hopes may be of some use; then rest, nature, books, music, love for one's neighbour — such is my idea of happiness"

Tolstoy

Spotted Horses

Quote from: DavidW on February 10, 2024, 03:26:48 PMIt ended with a segment of Dorati conducting the Swedish Radio Symphony Orchestra.  It was knock your socks off great!  I found a recording he did of the 7th and will give it a listen.

One of those recordings inexplicably hard to find, although it can be streamed or downloaded.
There are simply two kinds of music, good music and the other kind. - Duke Ellington

Atriod

Quote from: Mirror Image on June 12, 2024, 09:07:03 AMWelcome to the abyss. 8) The 8th might be my favorite Pettersson overall, but I'm going to go through all of them again once I receive the Complete BIS set.

Pettersson obviously isn't for everyone, but there's something about his music that puts me at ease and this is strange as it should be doing the opposite! I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't buy into all of the "pain and suffering" nonsense that I've heard someone like David Hurwitz say about him. Pettersson's music is darkly beautiful, but also there's a haunting atmosphere to it that is totally singular and unique to him. I've truly come around to his music a lot over the years.

My hope is that others are able to put aside their own emotional baggage and just listen to brilliance of his music. His sound-world is unlike anyone else's.

Special edit: I do not want to undermine that Pettersson wasn't suffering or that it's not of any importance, because the man was clearly in physical pain for much of his life due to rheumatoid arthritis, which left him practically immobile. I just don't think all of his music should be put through this kind of imagery since there's obviously more to his music than that of a man who "suffers for his art".

A great double header would be Pettersson's Symphony 8 and Bruckner Symphony 8  :o Ahh if only I had infinite money, I'd make sure that was programmed somewhere. Though who to conduct Bruckner these days, they're all Bruckner wimps.

Mirror Image

Quote from: Atriod on June 12, 2024, 03:38:17 PMA great double header would be Pettersson's Symphony 8 and Bruckner Symphony 8  :o Ahh if only I had infinite money, I'd make sure that was programmed somewhere. Though who to conduct Bruckner these days, they're all Bruckner wimps.

Pettersson's 8th and Bruckner's 8th on the same program would be fascinating. I'm not sure how Leif Segerstam feels about Bruckner, but he could pull this program off easily I would imagine. There's nothing wimpy about his conducting.

Also, here's a question, what work would go first on the program? Bruckner or Pettersson?
"Music is not a salvation, but it helps you to endure...endure until you finally can lay down and rest." ― Allan Pettersson

Mirror Image

I just bought these two recordings used on Discogs:



I already own the Dorati 7th on the Swedish Society label, but also Comissiona's 7th (on Caprice) and 14th (on Phono Suecia) and the Violin Concerto No. 2 with Ida Haendel/Blomstedt (on Caprice). I think that's it for all the Pettersson Swedish label releases on CD.
"Music is not a salvation, but it helps you to endure...endure until you finally can lay down and rest." ― Allan Pettersson

CRCulver

Quote from: Mirror Image on June 12, 2024, 09:07:03 AMI just don't think all of his music should be put through this kind of imagery since there's obviously more to his music than that of a man who "suffers for his art".

Occasionally one sees attempts to reframe Pettersson's music away from gloom and suffering – most recently Simon Cummings' Pettersson survey on the 5:4 blog. I personally have absolutely no problem categorizing Pettersson in these terms. To me, his work is a classical-music analogue of those popular-music acts like Red House Painters that dwell on turbulent male emotions (and let's face it, Pettersson's fanbase is likely 99% male), offering some solace when a person is going through some things himself, and remaining interesting even once one has worked through any issues and is in a happier place in life. 

Maestro267

Thanks for pointing me in the direction of 5:4's Pettersson blogs. Reading the 9th Symphony entry and it staggers me how different the review is compared to the Pettersson 100th anniversary series' blog post on it. He makes the 9th out to be this impenetrable monolith of a work made only from suffering while 5:4 makes it out to be a joyful romp.

ultralinear

#1250
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 12, 2024, 04:41:12 PMPettersson's 8th and Bruckner's 8th on the same program would be fascinating. I'm not sure how Leif Segerstam feels about Bruckner, but he could pull this program off easily I would imagine. There's nothing wimpy about his conducting.

Also, here's a question, what work would go first on the program? Bruckner or Pettersson?

I saw Segerstam conduct Bruckner's 8th one time.  I don't recall if he was the original choice or a substitution for someone else, but I do remember it was slooooooooooow - seemed to go on for hours - and at the end there was a deal of booing, which is not something you hear that often.

Maestro267

Celibidache has redefined slow Bruckner. How Celibidache are we talking here?

ultralinear

#1252
Quote from: Maestro267 on June 13, 2024, 02:19:01 AMCelibidache has redefined slow Bruckner. How Celibidache are we talking here?

Slow enough to have been a concern to those of us with a train to catch. ;D

Somewhere I have an incomplete recording of it, as the concert was live broadcast on Radio 3, which in those pre-streaming days I would record from FM onto Minidisc and then transfer to PC for editing.  For a concert that I would be attending, I would set up two recorders on timers with a 10-minute overlap to allow a choice of points to splice them together, with 80-minute discs giving 2 and a half hours total run time.  Which would usually be more than enough for a whole concert.

The 2nd disc ran out partway into the Finale. >:(

IIRC Celi's Munich recording on EMI runs an hour and three-quarters.  I would have said Segerstam's was at least about that.  But not nearly so interesting. :(  Hence the booing I suppose.

Mirror Image

#1253
Quote from: ultralinear on June 13, 2024, 12:43:06 AMI saw Segerstam conduct Bruckner's 8th one time.  I don't recall if he was the original choice or a substitution for someone else, but I do remember it was slooooooooooow - seemed to go on for hours - and at the end there was a deal of booing, which is not something you hear that often.

Those booing were probably a part of the Celibidache hate group. Personally, I love slow Bruckner but the conviction for how it's performed is more important than the actual tempi choices. Although, where I draw the line is the Scherzo from the 9th. I can't stand to hear it played so slowly. It seems to zap what I feel to be menacing and turbulent about this particular movement.
"Music is not a salvation, but it helps you to endure...endure until you finally can lay down and rest." ― Allan Pettersson

Mirror Image

#1254
Quote from: CRCulver on June 12, 2024, 10:55:24 PMOccasionally one sees attempts to reframe Pettersson's music away from gloom and suffering – most recently Simon Cummings' Pettersson survey on the 5:4 blog. I personally have absolutely no problem categorizing Pettersson in these terms. To me, his work is a classical-music analogue of those popular-music acts like Red House Painters that dwell on turbulent male emotions (and let's face it, Pettersson's fanbase is likely 99% male), offering some solace when a person is going through some things himself, and remaining interesting even once one has worked through any issues and is in a happier place in life. 

I'm not trying to "reframe" anyone here, I'm just saying that there's more to Pettersson's music than what one perceives on the surface. Never heard of Red House Painters (I thought at first this was an art movement that I was unaware of). I'm also not familiar with the 5:4 blog, but I'm not too interested in reading reviews these days.
"Music is not a salvation, but it helps you to endure...endure until you finally can lay down and rest." ― Allan Pettersson

AnotherSpin

Quote from: CRCulver on June 12, 2024, 10:55:24 PMOccasionally one sees attempts to reframe Pettersson's music away from gloom and suffering – most recently Simon Cummings' Pettersson survey on the 5:4 blog. I personally have absolutely no problem categorizing Pettersson in these terms. To me, his work is a classical-music analogue of those popular-music acts like Red House Painters that dwell on turbulent male emotions (and let's face it, Pettersson's fanbase is likely 99% male), offering some solace when a person is going through some things himself, and remaining interesting even once one has worked through any issues and is in a happier place in life. 

I don't find much gloom in Pettersson's music, nor do I find fake optimism like, so much often, in Shostakovich's opuses. Maybe I hear Pettersson differently.

Mirror Image

Quote from: AnotherSpin on June 13, 2024, 07:53:18 AMI don't find much gloom in Pettersson's music, nor do I find fake optimism like, so much often, in Shostakovich's opuses. Maybe I hear Pettersson differently.

What I like about Pettersson's music is he's not putting up some kind of veil for the listener to peek through. He lays everything out on the musical table. Whether you respond to the music or not is a different matter entirely. Some listeners don't do well with composers who are so forthcoming with their style.
"Music is not a salvation, but it helps you to endure...endure until you finally can lay down and rest." ― Allan Pettersson

Spotted Horses

Quote from: CRCulver on June 12, 2024, 10:55:24 PMOccasionally one sees attempts to reframe Pettersson's music away from gloom and suffering – most recently Simon Cummings' Pettersson survey on the 5:4 blog. I personally have absolutely no problem categorizing Pettersson in these terms. To me, his work is a classical-music analogue of those popular-music acts like Red House Painters that dwell on turbulent male emotions (and let's face it, Pettersson's fanbase is likely 99% male), offering some solace when a person is going through some things himself, and remaining interesting even once one has worked through any issues and is in a happier place in life. 

Gloom is not the word, I think, strife is closer to the mark. It calls to mind a remark I remember Leonard Bernstein making in an television program he made discussing Tchaikovsky's 6th symphony. Paraphrasing, he said "people will say that Tchaikovsky was depressed when he wrote this symphony. That is not true. If you are depressed you stay in bed all day, you don't write a symphony."

I recall Peterson often characterizing his work as flowing from his personal struggles and the struggles of common people in an inhospitable world. But in the end the music speaks for itself. A composer may have an idea in mind when writing music, but that doesn't mean that every listener will react to the music the same way.
There are simply two kinds of music, good music and the other kind. - Duke Ellington

Spotted Horses

Quote from: ultralinear on June 13, 2024, 12:43:06 AMI saw Segerstam conduct Bruckner's 8th one time.  I don't recall if he was the original choice or a substitution for someone else, but I do remember it was slooooooooooow - seemed to go on for hours - and at the end there was a deal of booing, which is not something you hear that often.

That does sound dreadful. It is not as if people coming to a performance of Bruckner 8 don't know what they are in for.
There are simply two kinds of music, good music and the other kind. - Duke Ellington

AnotherSpin

Quote from: Mirror Image on June 13, 2024, 07:56:24 AMWhat I like about Pettersson's music is he's not putting up some kind of veil for the listener to peek through. He lays everything out on the musical table. Whether you respond to the music or not is a different matter entirely. Some listeners don't do well with composers who are so forthcoming with their style.

I think I can agree. What Pettersson's music doesn't have in it is pretence and falsity, it is direct and clear. At times it seems that this music simply carries him along in its powerful rush, overpowering him, and he merely records what he hears, as in the 9th Symphony.