Ludwig van Beethoven (1770-1827)

[Todd]

controversially she left out the Op.49 sonatas...well, a controversy in this forum anyway

There's no controversy; she's an immature girl.  Even Sviatoslav Richter recorded them, but Ms Lim cannot be bothered to do so, because, what, she knows more than Richter?

And for what it's worth, Todd thought my review was too kind.

It is too kind.  I actually did a more thorough write up of her set, and there were a couple good things in her set, but I didn't back up the file and when my old laptop died, I lost it.  I shan't take the time to write on her set again now.  I plan on revisiting it in a few years, maybe longer, at which time maybe I will write more.  Oh, who am I kidding?  For me, the only question is whether she is worse than Anne Oland.

[TheGSMoeller]

I agree.  The recording of the 4th and 7th is also good.

I will have to check it out, thanks, S.A.

[Karl Henning]

LvB
Overture in C, Die Weihe des Hauses, Op.124
Anima Eterna Orchestra
Immerseel

[asin]B0014WSWTY[/asin]

(A) This is easily the best I have enjoyed this piece; and

(B) In case anyone wondered if LvB was still "Classical," as late as 1822 . . . .

[Sergeant Rock]

There's no controversy; she's an immature girl.  Even Sviatoslav Richter recorded them, but Ms Lim cannot be bothered to do so, because, what, she knows more than Richter?

Where is Richter's Beethoven cycle? What did Richter know more than Lim about Beethoven? Was Beethoven not worth Richter's time and effort? Richter couldn't be "bothered" to record a cycle? 

You know exactly why Lim didn't record the op.49s. It has nothing to do with "immaturity." The sonatinas were not meant for publication, they were published against Beethoven's will, and Lim chose to respect the composer's intentions. That stand bothered some here; didn't bother others. Hence, a very minor controversy.

Sarge

[George]

Where is Richter's Beethoven cycle?

Unfortunately, only in my own private fantasy-land. 

[aquablob]

Where is Richter's Beethoven cycle? What did Richter know more than Lim about Beethoven? Was Beethoven not worth Richter's time and effort? Richter couldn't be "bothered" to record a cycle? 

You know exactly why Lim didn't record the op.49s. It has nothing to do with "immaturity." The sonatinas were not meant for publication, they were published against Beethoven's will, and Lim chose to respect the composer's intentions. That stand bothered some here; didn't bother others. Hence, a very minor controversy.

Sarge

I agree that Lim's decision not to record Op. 49 wasn't "immature," and that she was in fact trying to respect the composer's intentions.

That said, Op. 49 probably was not published against Beethoven's wishes or without his knowledge. This is almost surely a myth.

[Sergeant Rock]

That said, Op. 49 probably was not published against Beethoven's wishes or without his knowledge. This is almost surely a myth.

Wiki says otherwise. Case closed 

Seriously, a myth it may be but a myth that refuses to die. What do you know about the circumstances of their publication? Did Beethoven relent and authorize it? Did he consider them part of the canon (the equal of the other sonatas)? Or were they meant for pedagogic purpose?

Sarge

[Todd]

You know exactly why Lim didn't record the op.49s. It has nothing to do with "immaturity." The sonatinas were not meant for publication, they were published against Beethoven's will, and Lim chose to respect the composer's intentions. That stand bothered some here; didn't bother others. Hence, a very minor controversy.

Lim is young and trying to make a name for herself.  What better way than to stake some type of claim to adhering to the composer's intention?  I don't buy it at all.  She, and/or her management team, almost certainly opted to not record the works as a stunt, as something to make her appear more serious, thoughtful, or whatever.  Far greater pianists have recorded the works, either individually, or as a part of the complete cycle.  Given Lim's playing, and her jibber-jabber liner notes, it is impossible to take seriously the notion that she chose to respect anything by excluding the works.  Kempff, Backhaus, Annie Fischer, Gulda, et al, recorded the works in the context of what is considered the complete cycle.  Lim is not more special or insightful than the dozens of vastly superior artists who recorded the cycle before her, and the dozens of vastly superior artists who will record it after her. 

Also, I must inquire, what were Beethoven's intentions as to his piano sonatas?  Did he intend pianists to perform all of them in sequence at a series of recitals?  I rather thought the concept of the complete sonata cycle started around the time Schnabel recorded them, and it has continued since, and serious artists who set out to record a complete cycle, and call it a complete cycle, record all 32 works.  In this context, Lim cannot be called serious.  I'm not familiar with performance practice in the 19th Century.  How many pianists performed all of the sonatas in a series of recitals? 

[Brian]

Wow, thank you very much, aquariuswb. Great to have all the facts injected into the discussion, pretty darn interesting to read in any light, and yet another pretty fascinating example of how much you can do simply by harnessing the power of Google. 

[prémont]

Apropos op. 49:  Is it possible that we here have one four-movement sonata split into two two-movement sonatinas. The two sonatinas are in the same key and in the G-major sonatina we have a typical first movement (allegro in sonata form) and a possible third movement (menuetto). In the g-minor sonatina we have a slow (second?)movement in minor and typical fourth movement (rondo). Is it a coincidence, that the concluding movement of the g-minor sonata is in G-major? I admit, that these four movements in the strict sequence make up for a somewaht unbalanced work. But this might be the reason why Beethoven did not want it published. And then someone got the nice idea to split it into two sonatinas, and then the musical balance became much better, and Beethoven was persuaded to publish them. Just an idea.

[aquablob]

That is an interesting idea, premont. I don't think it's "right," considering their slightly differing dates of composition, and there are some letters in which they're mentioned as different works, but it might be an interesting experiment for a pianist to play them together as one "piece" without a pause (or intervening applause).

The minor/major difference in movements is something that Beethoven does in his other minor-key 2-movement sonatas (Opp. 90, 111).

[Moonfish]

Any recommendations on recordings for the Cantata on the Death of Emperor Joseph II?  I am all ears....   

[Karl Henning]

I've only heard one, and don't know whether I should recommend it  0:)

[Moonfish]

I've only heard one, and don't know whether I should recommend it  0:)

Awful version?

[Karl Henning]

Awful version?

Oh, I mustn't seem to suggest so!  I honestly don't recall it.  Let me see if I can find it for a fresh listen tonight . . . .

[snyprrr]

Oh and look who comes in to break up the Italian Party!

[Gurn Blanston]

Any recommendations on recordings for the Cantata on the Death of Emperor Joseph II?  I am all ears....   

I like the version of the Corydon Singers. I believe it's on Hyperion, but I'm not at home to check it out. Very nicely done though.



edit: Yes, here it is at Amazon. Christ, the price is through the roof! 

[asin]B000002ZY0[/asin]

[Moonfish]

I like the version of the Corydon Singers. I believe it's on Hyperion, but I'm not at home to check it out. Very nicely done though.



edit: Yes, here it is at Amazon. Christ, the price is through the roof! 

[asin]B000002ZY0[/asin]

Thanks Gurn! Yes, a bit on the expensive side...   

[Gurn Blanston]

Thanks Gurn! Yes, a bit on the expensive side...   

I paid $14 for it. I was still thinking in those terms, I guess. My collection is gaining value every day!

[Pat B]

I have Schippers in this set:
[asin]B0000029YP[/asin]

I wanted to put it on but got distracted by track 1, the Choral Fantasy (Serkin,NYPO,Bernstein). Ormandy's 9th is actually very good and this has it uncut (the Great Performances issues cut out the 2nd movement repeat).

There's a copy for $5.49 right now, which is a good price.