Ludwig van Beethoven (1770-1827)

[amw]

What about op.28? This is also comparably conventional but IMO much nicer.

Harold Truscott has a lovely analysis of just how unusual and unconventional Op. 28 is in The Beethoven Companion—I mean his chapter is problematic in all sorts of ways, but with that sonata he's really on point. I might try to find it later

[NJ Joe]

This is the kind of comment that makes me still grateful for the existence of this board, even after all the...name-your-top-43-xylophone-concertos-written-in-1629 clutter.

I had just come up with my 43rd, and was about to post my list over on the "Xylophone:  Master Instrument of Them All" board.

And now I'm not going to do it.

Thanks a lot.

[Brian]

I imagine Op. 28 must be difficult to play to satisfaction, because in most performances I've heard, the opening "allegro" and following "andante" are very close or almost identical in tempo. I may have heard an eccentric reading or two where the first movement is slower.

[Jo498]

But in the first movements op.28 whole 3/4-bars are probably "felt" as the (slowish) beat (if one counts quarters it's very fast, similarly to the Eroica first movement). Whereas it would be quarters or even eighth notes in the andante.

[Jaakko Keskinen]

Other Beethoven-missing-the-marks:
the clarinet trio Op. 11
a fair bit of Fidelio
Op. 18/5 and to some extent 4
slow movements of the first two piano concertos
some of the violin sonatas maybe? I don't remember half of them tbh

Clarinet trio, can't remember if I've even heard it.
Fidelio: Hopefully not one of the greatest villain arias in the history of opera? Or that magnificent gold aria ? Not to mention Leonore overtures, "Jetzt, Alter" and great finales and climaxes of both acts?
op.18/5 and 4: blasphemy! Those are probably the greatest of his early quartets 
Piano concerto slow movements: can't remember the slow movements so can't comment on that one. On the whole I recall having liked those concertos.
Violin sonatas: Disagreed. Among Beethoven's finest chamber music, tbh

[(poco) Sforzando]

But in the first movements op.28 whole 3/4-bars are probably "felt" as the (slowish) beat (if one counts quarters it's very fast, similarly to the Eroica first movement). Whereas it would be quarters or even eighth notes in the andante.

I think the Andante, like the second movement of the 8th symphony, is properly in 4/8 rather than 2/4. I have heard one live performance, I think by Mustonen, where it was played as 2/4, almost an allegro in double-time from the usual.

[Jaakko Keskinen]

My least favorite is #4.

One of Beethoven's early masterpieces if you ask me. His sorrows of young werther, perhaps.

[Madiel]

I find op.28 tremendously satisfying. I have Kovacevich performing it.

[Jo498]

It is a truth universally acknowledged that the best quartet of op.18 is #1.

The violin sonatas are great. They may not be as adventurous as some of the piano sonatas but I think they are among the most accomplished of his early works. Melodically inspired, nicely balanced, diverse in mood, texture etc. Similar remarks apply to the most underappreciated early Beethoven pieces: The string trios op.9. They are often as good as some of the op.18 quartets. op.9/3 interestingly makes use of a four note motive that seems a foreshadowing of the famous 4 note motive in the late quartets.

I find it clearly superior to the c minor quartet 18/4. I don't think the movements of 18/4 fit together very well and I not very fond of the "romantic" first movement which is also uncommonly dominated by melody+ (usually repeated 8th notes) accompaniment. The finale is a four-square-rondo with hardly any sonata-like development. I like the scherzando movement but it does not fit with the tragic/dramatic mood of the others.

[Florestan]

John Simon and Adrienne Rich are idiots. Moreover, he´s a cunt and she´s a dick.

[amw]

Op. 9 is excellent. Even Op. 3 is excellent. I wish Beethoven had written more string trios, they're incredibly assured and inventive. Only the string trio/flute serenade/whatever (i've heard various instrumentations) Op. 25? (The D major one with like 20 movements, you probably know what i'm talking about) is a miscalculation, and I suspect it was written as a potboiler more than a 'proper' piece of music.

Tbh I like the violin sonatas but the first three in particular don't seem like top-drawer Beethoven. I'll try to get into them eventually.

[Ken B]

John Simon and Adrienne Rich are idiots. Moreover, he´s a cunt and she´s a dick.

That's incredibly rude Florestan. Incredibly. You should use gender-neutral pronouns. "s/he's a cunt and s/he's a dick."

[Jubal Slate]

John Simon and Adrienne Rich are idiots. Moreover, he´s a cunt and she´s a dick.

[Florestan]

That's incredibly rude Florestan. Incredibly. You should use gender-neutral pronouns. "s/he's a cunt and s/he's a dick."

And the PC thought police should kiss my a$$.

[Jo498]

Please go away with that nonsense. I am afraid I'll go blind if I read those rude words.

[Jaakko Keskinen]

Agreed about the string trios op. 3 and 9.

[Florestan]

Agreed about the string trios op. 3 and 9.

+1

And let's not forget the op. 8.

[Jaakko Keskinen]

+1

And let's not forget the op. 8.

I forgot it and by the time I remembered it I was too lazy to edit my post. :F

[Jo498]

op.8 is fun but it sometimes veers dangerously close to that serenade with flute amw mentioned.

[Madiel]

Oh, how awful of Beethoven to write those serenade thingies with lots of movements. Like his own Septet and Schubert's Octet and all those other pieces that no-one ever liked.

By the way, you'll find that op.25 has 6 movements. Six. That's a heck of a lot closer to the 4-movement works that apparently pass muster than the 20-movement parody you created. You don't have to like pieces (indeed, you don't have to like the entire serenade genre), but you could at least fairly characterise the thing that you're not liking.