Ludwig van Beethoven (1770-1827)

[BachQ]

. Considering there are 217 recordings of the ninth listed on Arkiv I can't see it as any other way.

Just jumped to 218 ........

[dtwilbanks]

Just jumped to 218 ........

I don't want anyone making recommendations until they've heard all 218. 

[BachQ]

. Considering there are 217 recordings of the ninth listed on Arkiv I can't see it as any other way.

On a separate but related note, Donwyn, do you think there are too many LvB Seventh Symphonies (of which there are a mere 208 recordings)?

[BachQ]

2 Emperors were unleashed yesterday:

Hélène Grimaud / Wladimir Jurowski / Dresden Staatskapelle

Ashkenazy / Haitink / London Phil

[Bogey]

2 Emperors were unleashed yesterday:

Hélène Grimaud / Wladimir Jurowski / Dresden Staatskapelle

Ashkenazy / Haitink / London Phil

I'll take both.  Any reviews available yet?

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Just jumped to 218 ........

Okay, time to release the hounds....

[Dancing Divertimentian]

On a separate but related note, Donwyn, do you think there are too many LvB Seventh Symphonies (of which there are a mere 208 recordings)?

Yes, I do.

Though I guess companies need the windfall to keep themselves afloat. That would seem to be the implication.

Vänskä's a good example. He's riding high right now, with his new orchestra and all (Minnesota), so why shouldn't BIS cash in on his popularity by issuing a new Beethoven cycle? Makes perfect fiscal sense.

But does it make good artistic sense? Depends. If BIS follows the Beethoven with yet another Tchaikovsky symphony cycle then I say no.

On the other hand if BIS builds on Vänskä's popularity and unearths some underrepresented goodies for their next recording project then I say a resounding yes! I mean, what better way to generate interest in worthwhile yet underrepresented repertoire than by linking it to a hot hand?

It's all about discovery. Folks know Vänskä (heck, even my mother-in-law [here in the States] knows who he is) so taking an Enescu/Martinu/Scriabin leap of faith might prove less daunting if accompanied by a familiar face.

Who knows, it could even prove to be such a windfall that other companies begin to copycat! I can see it now: 208 Martinu fourth symphony recordings listed on Arkiv! Yippeeeeeee...... (but that's a discussion for another day! )

[BachQ]

Yes, I do. ***But does it make good artistic sense? Depends. If BIS follows the Beethoven with yet another Tchaikovsky symphony cycle then I say no.

On the other hand if BIS builds on Vänskä's popularity and unearths some underrepresented goodies for their next recording project then I say a resounding yes! I mean, what better way to generate interest in worthwhile yet underrepresented repertoire than by linking it to a hot hand?

It's all about discovery. *** Who knows, it could even prove to be such a windfall that other companies begin to copycat! I can see it now: 208 Martinu fourth symphony recordings listed on Arkiv! Yippeeeeeee...... (but that's a discussion for another day! )

Well, once again, you're bundling together several points ........

1. LvB 7 is not a saturated market. With new recording techniques and recording media, it's mindboggling to think of how many highly impressive performances have yet to be tapped -- perhaps thousands -- perhaps tens of thousands.  Not to mention fresh approaches and interpretations given new conductors and new performers.

What if, unbeknownst to you, Paul Kletzki had made a DVD of LvB 7 with spectacular sonics and visuals (and the Czech Philharmonic, of course)? ......... and DG released it on October 9, 2007 ($19.95)........ Would you buy it?

2. If you believe that Vänskä is a credible artist, and that he, in good conscience, believes that he can add a great deal of insight into the interpretations of LvB 7, shouldn't he be encouraged to do that?  You are assuming that the only reason anyone churns out Beethoven is to make money.  I wish Vänskä would post on this board and tell us how Beethoven's 7th affects and nurtures his soul and artistry.  Maybe the primary reasons conductors perform Beethoven is because of its artistic value ........

3. The new Pletnev release shows just how wildly different interpretations can be of LvB's symphonies.  LvB's symphonies aren't static, dead warhorses.  Rather, they are bristling with potential ....... with their latent, hidden mysteries waiting to be unearthed.  Personally, I'm not sure if we've even probed the tip of the iceberg with respect to LvB's symphonies.  And the market certainly IS NOT SATURATED.

4. Perhaps the best solution to our dilemma is to bundle Beethoven with Martinu ...... for example by including Martinu's 4th Symphony with Beethoven's 4th Symphony (or wha'ever).  Win-win-win situation.

5. I agree that "it's all about discovery."  And given the depth and profundity of many of LvB's compositions, there are many more discoveries to be made with various new interpretations/performances of his masterpieces.

6. Again, there is no mutual exclusivity.  We can have lots of new Beethoven and lots of new Martinu without any tradeoffs.  The globe is filled with countless orchestras, performers, and conductors ....... we can have both ........ and we can have both LvB and Martinu on the same CD/DVD ....... paving the way to limitless discoveries for listeners ..........

7. [Reserved]

[uffeviking]

A very thoughtful and thought provoking post, Dmitri!

Human nature with all it's fault makes it so bothersome to switch gear from something familiar and comforting. It's so much easier to sit back - either in the comfort of one's home, or the less comfortable concert hall seat - and relax with a well-known version of one's favourtie symphony, than to sit up and discover a bit of new tempo or volume, evaluate it and search for reasons of the change.

Great discoveries can be made giving something new a fair chance!

[BachQ]

This reviewer found Pletnev's cycle to be "significant ..... [e]specially for cheek, excitement and rhetoric ......"

He gave it a 4 out of 5 .......



From The Times
September 21, 2007
MIKHAIL PLETNEV: BEETHOVEN SYMPHONIES
Geoff Brown


Trumpetings from the Deutsche Grammophon people suggest that Beethoven will never be the same again. With this set of the nine symphonies, as with his continuing piano concerto cycle, conductor and pianist Mikhail Pletnev, they say, has knocked Beethoven off his museum perch and made him our contemporary. The Beethoven legacy has been marked forever.

All exaggeration. Beethoven has never felt dusty. The publicity, too, does a disservice to earlier recorded cycles from the period-instrument specialists Nikolaus Harnoncourt and Roger Norrington or, more recently, David Zinman – all conductors who leap to mind as Pletnev punches through fortissimo chords and pushes the tension sky-high. From an earlier age, Wilhelm Furtwängler also pops into the head for his loose speeds and improvisatory air. The Beethoven legacy has not been altered, merely continued.

Even so, Pletnev's cycle, recorded over 11 hectic days last summer with his excellent Russian National Orchestra, is still significant. Especially for cheek, excitement and rhetoric. Fast speeds are pushed beyond the dial, often with consequences for string articulation. Slow stretches can be resoundingly slow: note his Eroica funeral march, 16 minutes long. At best Pletnev's volatile behaviour gives the symphonies a sense of exploration and growth. The Eroica first movement in particular is a triumph of flexible speed – there's life and surprise in every bar.

And at worst? Well, none of the nine performances is untenable. But subtleties sometimes get squashed in the rush (the Second's finale). And in several of the most iconic symphonies Pletnev, for all his passion and commitment, oddly appears to have little to say. Some speed quirks apart, most of the notes in the Fifth roll themselves out as usual. The Ninth, too, appears a little ordinary: Pletnev's punch-drunk staccatos aren't the best conduit for universal joy.

Usually, the more risks Pletnev takes the sharper the music-making's character. Woodwind and brass players never seem put out by his streaking speeds; likewise the orchestra's timpanist. And there's a dangerous delight about Pletnev's approach. Try the first movement of the Pastoral: in both directions speeds are pushed to the brink of madness, but you can't deny the countryside's thrill.

[BachQ]

Comparing/Contrasting Pletnev with Mackerras

Tim Ashley
Friday October 12, 2007
The Guardian

Beethoven: The Nine Symphonies Edinburgh Festival Chorus/ SCO/ Philharmonia/ Mackerras


Also reviewed: Beethoven: The Nine Symphonies, Moscow State Chamber Choir/ Russian NO/ Pletnev

These two new Beethoven cycles are in many respects antithetical, though to hear them in tandem is to be reminded of the tremendous interpretative diversity his music permits. Both were recorded last year. The Hyperion set derives from BBC broadcasts of Charles Mackerras's Edinburgh festival cycle and features the two UK orchestras with which he is primarily associated - the Scottish Chamber Orchestra, who play the first eight, and the Philharmonia, who take over for the Ninth. Mikhail Pletnev's DG cycle with his Russian National Orchestra was taped in Moscow following an intensive series of concerts. Both are hugely personal. Broadly speaking, Mackerras presents each symphony as self-contained, and the stylistic range of the cycle as a whole is striking. Pletnev, more contentiously, is anxious to find a unity of revolutionary purpose that links all nine.

Pletnev's avowed aim is that "every phrase, scream and moment of joy [should be] lived through as intensely as in our real lives". In the process, however, he steers us closer than Mackerras to the conventionally held view of Beethoven as predominantly snarling and titanic. His speeds can be wayward and exaggerated and he sometimes cramps Beethoven's emotional range. What crucially slips is the humour. Pletnev is dour in the first two symphonies, where Mackerras emphasises the often witty experiments with classical form that preceded the epoch-making structural overhaul of the Eroica. The Fourth, in which Beethoven plays endless games by confounding listeners' expectations, is the hardest of the series to get right: Mackerras is bang on with every stylistic jolt here, while Pletnev seems over-deliberate.

Pletnev, however, sometimes takes us to extremes in ways that Mackerras does not. His Fifth is both savage and elated, while Mackerras's is low-key by comparison. Pletnev's Seventh is also more transparent and more overtly Dionysian than its opposite number. Neither Pastoral is ideal - Mackerras is overly classical and severe, and Pletnev's speeds are again too erratic. Both Eighths are superb, if contradictory: Mackerras is unusually nostalgic, Pletnev very grand and doggedly turbulent. You can't fault the Ninths, either. Whether you prefer Pletnev's hieratic, ritual approach to Mackerras's deep humanity is a matter of taste. Both recordings have some extraneous noise. There's coughing and platform clatter on the Mackerras set. Pletnev, meanwhile, can be heard singing along, though never intrusively.

[uffeviking]

I didn't hear Pletnev! Have to run them again and pay more attention to his voice than his conducting. No, just kidding. This is a very good review, thanks, Dmitri. I have not heard the Mackerras so I take the reviewer's word for it because he sounds fair and non-partisan; that's what I like to read in any review.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Well, once again, you're bundling together several points ........

I had no idea I had to curtail my 'point bundling'...

You asked a question...I gave an answer. I actually went well beyond the one word answer your question in all honestly warranted. I mean, in the spirit of conversation and all...

1. LvB 7 is not a saturated market. With new recording techniques and recording media, it's mindboggling to think of how many highly impressive performances have yet to be tapped -- perhaps thousands -- perhaps tens of thousands.  Not to mention fresh approaches and interpretations given new conductors and new performers.

Tens of thousands, eh? Expecting something 'fresh' from the 53,407th recording of B's seventh symphony requires a huge leap of faith! But who better to expect that from than the board's number one Beethoven lover: D minor!!

Of course, me being the rabid Beethoven hater I have lower expectations...

What if, unbeknownst to you, Paul Kletzki had made a DVD of LvB 7 with spectacular sonics and visuals (and the Czech Philharmonic, of course)? ......... and DG released it on October 9, 2007 ($19.95)........ Would you buy it?

No. I'm not into concert DVD's. And Supraphon had the quality sound thing down in the mid-60s. Well ahead of their time...

2. If you believe that Vänskä is a credible artist, and that he, in good conscience, believes that he can add a great deal of insight into the interpretations of LvB 7, shouldn't he be encouraged to do that?  You are assuming that the only reason anyone churns out Beethoven is to make money.  I wish Vänskä would post on this board and tell us how Beethoven's 7th affects and nurtures his soul and artistry.  Maybe the primary reasons conductors perform Beethoven is because of its artistic value ........

Conversations that hinge on presuppositions about the other party really aren't conversations...

3. The new Pletnev release shows just how wildly different interpretations can be of LvB's symphonies.  LvB's symphonies aren't static, dead warhorses.  Rather, they are bristling with potential ....... with their latent, hidden mysteries waiting to be unearthed.  Personally, I'm not sure if we've even probed the tip of the iceberg with respect to LvB's symphonies.  And the market certainly IS NOT SATURATED.

Of course the market's not saturated. We haven't even gotten to the 12,683rd recording of the seventh, yet...

4. Perhaps the best solution to our dilemma is to bundle Beethoven with Martinu ...... for example by including Martinu's 4th Symphony with Beethoven's 4th Symphony (or wha'ever).  Win-win-win situation.

What's the dilemma? In all honesty I'm not half as worried about the situation as you appear to be.

5. I agree that "it's all about discovery."  And given the depth and profundity of many of LvB's compositions, there are many more discoveries to be made with various new interpretations/performances of his masterpieces.

I guess we'll never know how "deep and profound" Martinu's fourth symphony is since every available inch reserved for recordings has been earmarked for the literally hundreds of thousands (millions??) of Beethoven projects...not much room left for anything else.

6. Again, there is no mutual exclusivity.  We can have lots of new Beethoven and lots of new Martinu without any tradeoffs.  The globe is filled with countless orchestras, performers, and conductors ....... we can have both ........ and we can have both LvB and Martinu on the same CD/DVD ....... paving the way to limitless discoveries for listeners..........

Well, we've been down this road. I'd like to see the majors show more initiative and record both!

7. [Reserved]

Did I mention that conversations that hinge on presuppositions about the other party really aren't conversations?

[BachQ]

Vänskä and Minnesota Orchestra to Complete Beethoven's Symphony Cycle in January

Vänskä and the Minnesota Orchestra will record Beethoven's Seventh and Second Symphonies in January 2008 for the final installment of their Beethoven Symphonies CD cycle on the BIS label. -- www.minnesotaorchestra.org

Vänskä and Minnesota Orchestra Concludes Beethoven Cycle

Osmo Vänskä and the Minnesota Orchestra conclude their acclaimed performance cycle of Beethoven's symphonies with concerts November 1 to 3 featuring LvB's Seventh Symphony and his noble Emperor Piano Concerto, which showcases 27-year-old Russian piano virtuoso Yevgeny Sudbin as soloist.

Sudbin, lauded by London's The Daily Telegraph as "potentially one of the greatest pianists of the 21st century," makes his Orchestra Hall debut on the three programs, which also include a fantasia by John Corigliano based on a theme from Beethoven's Seventh Symphony.  Russian-born Yevgeny Sudbin has already been hailed by critics as the 21st century's first great new piano talent. Since the 2005 release of his highly praised debut recording of Scarlatti sonatas on the Swedish BIS label, he has performed extensively throughout the world and recorded three additional solo albums for BIS. His current season includes debuts with three American orchestras and recitals throughout the U.S. and Europe.  Born in St. Petersburg in 1980, Sudbin has studied at the St. Petersburg Conservatory, Berlin's Hochschule Hanns Eisle and the Royal Academy of Music in London, where he currently resides.

Confident nobility and rhythmic energy permeate Ludwig van Beethoven's Emperor Piano Concerto, its composer's fifth and final contribution to the form. The notoriously difficult concerto was completed in Vienna in 1809 as Napoleon's army occupied the city. After an epic first movement full of wide leaps and frequent cadenzas, a reflective adagio and an energetic rondo cap this touchstone of the piano repertoire.

Beethoven's lively Seventh Symphony, famously termed "the apotheosis of dance" by Richard Wagner, builds a series of striking musical moments from short, simple figures. The second movement has been an audience favorite since its 1813 premiere, when it was immediately encored.

[Que]

Well, there is always room for more Beethoven, provided that it is HIP.
I have heard and already own enough immensly satisfying non-HIP Beethoven to last a life time.

I embraced Bruno Weil's recording of the 5th and 6th (Analekta, see my post the HIP Beethoven thread) and will welcome the announced complete cycle with Jos Van Immerseel (Zig Zag) with open arms.

Q

[BachQ]

Caramoor Announces Lecture Series On Beethoven's Shadow 
Written by Westchester.com     
Friday, 12 October 2007 

Katonah, NY – The first of three music lectures on aspects of Beethoven's Shadow – the theme of this autumn's Great Artists in the Music Room series at Caramoor Center for Music and the Arts – will take place on Sunday, October 14.

Beethoven's Shadow explores the work of Beethoven (1770-1827) as well as the great music written after Beethoven and influenced by his ground-breaking work.  The series will also include a concert of holiday music in December.

The first lecture, "Beethoven's Shadow: Exploring the Connection Between Beethoven and Schumann" will take place on Sunday, October 14 at 4:00 pm and feature lecturer Michael Barrett and William Sharp, baritone.  The lecture will include discussion and performance of Beethoven's An die Ferne Geliebte, regarded as the first great German song cycle, paving the way for Schubert, Schumann, Hugo Wolf and others.  In addition to An Die Ferne Geliebte, William Sharp with Michael Barrett at the piano will perform Schumann's Liederkreis, Op. 39.

On Sunday, November 11 at 4:00 pm, San Francisco Conservatory of Music professor Paul Hersh will discuss "Exploring the Influence of Beethoven's Piano Sonatas."   He will explore the literary legacy and musical structure of Beethoven's final piano sonata, Op. 111.  The lecture will conclude with a performance of the sonata by Mr. Hersh.

The third lecture in the series, "Exploring Beethoven's Symphonic Shadows," will be given by Paul Epstein and will take place on Sunday, November 18 at 4:00 pm.  This lecture will examine three of Beethoven's symphonies, the revolutionary panorama of the Third (Eroica), the absolute musical unity of the Fifth, and the Ninth's embodiment of nothing less than the whole of humanity and the world, and trace their overwhelming influence on such diverse composers as Schubert, Brahms, Wagner, Debussy and Ives.

The lectures complement the autumn's Great Artists in the Music Room Series, which began on October 6 with the Brentano String Quartet and continues on Saturday, October 20 at 8:00 pm with pianist Vladimir Feltsman, violist Paul Neubauer, and baritone William Sharp with a program of Beethoven's Sonata No. 14 in C-sharp minor, Op. 27, No. 2 (Moonlight); Schumann's Liederkreis, Op. 39 (poems by Eichendorff); and Shostakovich's Sonata for Viola and Piano.  The final Beethoven's Shadow performance, Saturday, November 3 at 8 pm, will feature Lily Francis, violin; Edward Arron, cello; and Anton Kuerti, piano with a program of Beethoven's Trio in C minor, Op. 1, No. 3; Shostakovich's Trio No. 2 in E minor, Op. 67; and Trio No. 2 in C Major, Op. 87 by Brahms.

Tickets
Tickets for the Beethoven's Shadow lectures are $15.  For further information about all events at Caramoor and to order tickets call the Caramoor Box Office at 914.232.1252 or visit www.caramoor.org. 

About Caramoor
Caramoor is the legacy of Walter and Lucie Rosen, who built the great house and filled it with their treasures.  Walter Rosen was the master planner for the Caramoor estate, bringing to reality his dream of creating a place to entertain friends from around the world.  Their musical evenings were the seeds of the annual summertime Caramoor International Music Festival, as well as the Fall and Spring musical programs held in their former home, now the House Museum.  Realizing the pleasure their friends took in the beauty of Caramoor – the house with its art collection, the gardens, and the musical programs – the Rosens established a Foundation to open Caramoor to the public in perpetuity.

Caramoor Center for Music and the Arts is located at 149 Girdle Ridge Road, Katonah, New York.

[uffeviking]

I have one more Beethoven 5th in my collection which has not been mentioned here - yet!

It's a Budapest Music Center Records disc with Peter Eötvös conducting his own composition zeroPoints played by the Göteborgs Symfoniker and then Beethoven's 5th by the Ensemble Modern. This should be an inspiration for concert program planners: Mix the old with the new, give them Eötvös and then sooth their tempers with their beloved Ludwig!

Eötvös gives the 5th a very brisk pace, not exactly speeding, but he is not loitering either and of course the Ensemble Modern is outstanding, as always. I like it!

[BachQ]

This should be an inspiration for concert program planners: Mix the old with the new, give them Eötvös and then sooth their tempers with their beloved Ludwig!

That's what I'm talkin' about .......

[BachQ]

Greatest Fountains of the World accompanied by LvB's d minor symphony (1'12") ........

http://www.youtube.com/v/-qAliFFbXP0

[uffeviking]

That's what I'm talkin' about .......

But nobody is listening to you - and me - and very often to the artistic directors of a symphony orchestra. From the personal experience of a conductor friend, it's the blue-haired money bags sitting on the board of directors, who are dictating what he can put on the program! I believe concert goers should be more vocal in asking for a mix of the old and the new.