Cortot's 1953 Symphonic Etudes -- a story and a problem.

[Mandryka]

So here's a story:

In 1953 Cortot recorded Schumann's Etudes Symphonique. It was not  published until Philips issued their Cortot CDs for GPOTTC --  they included the 1953 version.

But Alfred Brendel persuaded them that it was a mistake, and so they eventually substituted the 1929 recording.

The problem is this -- I have been assured that the 1953 recording is one of the most beautiful  things ever put onto record -- except maybe for the last variation -- Cortot was to old to do it well by then.

And so I want to hear it.

Can anyone help?

[nut-job]

Interesting, the recording has never been published, so how does anyone know how good or bad it is?  The most beautiful thing ever put onto record, well that explains why they never issued it, why Brendel told them not to reissue it, and why they agreed so readily to substitute another recording.   As they say on those TV detective shows, it don't add up.

[Mandryka]

Interesting, the recording has never been published, so how does anyone know how good or bad it is?  The most beautiful thing ever put onto record, well that explains why they never issued it, why Brendel told them not to reissue it, and why they agreed so readily to substitute another recording.   As they say on those TV detective shows, it don't add up.

No no no. It was published -- then withdrawn and the earlier record substituted.

I guess Brendel had his own reasons for advising them to change it -- maybe the earlier record is more representative of Cortot's art. Maybe that last variation is a real dog. But I've heard from a couple of sources who say they've heard it and confirm that it's very special. (One has it but he doesn't know how to upload, and I don't want to give him trouble just to satisfy a whim of mine!)

[nut-job]

There are numerous used copies on Amazon marketplace.  You could try to e-mail them to see if any of them have the version with the 1953 recording.

[Mandryka]

There are numerous used copies on Amazon marketplace.  You could try to e-mail them to see if any of them have the version with the 1953 recording.

That's not a bad idea!

[George]

That's not a bad idea!

Hopefully they can tell the difference. 

BTW, I have one at home, I'll check it later today. I'm guessing that it shouldn't be too hard to tell a 1920s recording from a 1950s one.

[Herman]

I'm guessing that it shouldn't be too hard to tell a 1920s recording from a 1950s one.

You don't have to guess. It says so in the credits.

[George]

You don't have to guess. It says so in the credits.

I don't have the artwork or the case, just the CDs. 

[Mandryka]

I don't have the artwork or the case, just the CDs. 

You can tell by the sound quality -- the later one was very well recorded apparently.

Hope you've got it!

[George]

You can tell by the sound quality -- the later one was very well recorded apparently.

Hope you've got it!

Me too.

My public library has 3 copies as well.

For those looking for the first one, here's a few photos to tell them apart: http://www.flickr.com/photos/15306675@N07/3439248676/sizes/l/

The background artwork gives it away.

[George]

You can tell by the sound quality -- the later one was very well recorded apparently.

Hope you've got it!

Well I checked my copy and I don't have it. The SQ is remarkably good for 1929, but no, this can't be the 1953. Sorry.

I can try to get to the library over the weekend. I can't promise anything, but I'll do my best.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

But Alfred Brendel persuaded them that it was a mistake, and so they eventually substituted the 1929 recording.

The problem is this -- I have been assured that the 1953 recording is one of the most beautiful  things ever put onto record --

I'd say Brendel lobbied for the switch for artistic reasons. It's pretty common knowledge that by the 50's Cortot didn't have anywhere near the chops he did in the 20's. Heck, by the 30's the complaints started rolling in about his decline.

Seems to me if this really was "one of the most beautiful things ever put on record" there'd be no need to pull it from the GPOTC series. Where did this assurance come from, btw?

(And, no, I haven't heard it).

[Herman]

Appian Records has a couple of cd's with "The Late Recordings" of Cortot. I happen to have a copy of vol I with 1947 Schumann, Chopin & Debussy. These are clearly not on the same level as the earlier recordings.

"The most beautiful thing ever put on record" sounds like the usual hype around a rare item.

[Mandryka]

"The most beautiful thing ever put on record" sounds like the usual hype around a rare item.

Well you were right Herman

I have been assured that the 1953 recording is one of the most beautiful  things ever put onto record

And that's right too.

I've heard it now. And it is very strange. It has this mad crazy Dionysian feel to it some times. Hallucinatory. Trippy. As if he was on acid when he made it. And he makes some stupendous sound come out of the piano.

But he's not up to it really and there are times when the performance is just a mess. It's good in some of the Eusebius music, rarely good when it's Florestan.

Is it a keeper?  Yes: it's a conversation piece.

[ccar]

Mandryka

Being very recent at the Forum and looking into some old threads I discovered your interesting Cortot "problem".
Too late to help you (I understand you already heard it now) because I do have the "first" edition of the Cortot GPOC with the 1953 version of the ES. The artwork is indeed slightly different in back plane of the cover (as the previously posted images clearly show).
Regarding the actual 2 performances I must confess, in spite of the slower tempi, imperfect digital execution and ressonant sound the freedom, the fire and the Schumann's magic of the 1953 reading are all quite impressive to me. In fact, I am always much more troubled by the lack of insight, freedom and individual character in an interpretation than by its "technical" faults. With Cortot latter performances the technique may be lacking but not the talent.        
A conversation piece I think is worth another talk.

Carlos  
 

[Mandryka]

Mandryka

Being very recent at the Forum and looking into some old threads I discovered your interesting Cortot "problem".
Too late to help you (I understand you already heard it now) because I do have the "first" edition of the Cortot GPOC with the 1953 version of the ES. The artwork is indeed slightly different in back plane of the cover (as the previously posted images clearly show).
Regarding the actual 2 performances I must confess, in spite of the slower tempi, imperfect digital execution and ressonant sound the freedom, the fire and the Schumann's magic of the 1953 reading are all quite impressive to me. In fact, I am always much more troubled by the lack of insight, freedom and individual character in an interpretation than by its "technical" faults. With Cortot latter performances the technique may be lacking but not the talent.        
A conversation piece I think is worth another talk.

Carlos  
 

Actually someone kindly uploaded the 1953 Etudes shortly after I made the OP.

I agree with you in fact.  The late recording is impressive. What strange, magical  sounds he makes come out of the piano, and what freedom.

I believe that Naxos are thinking of publishing the recording.

There's a really interesting Naxos disc of late Cortot performances already available -- a Kinderszenen and Chopin B flat minor sonata. I love them.

They have helped me enjoy the earlier recordings more, mainly because I have a better idea of his (rather special) sound.

Did you see him play?

[zamyrabyrd]

Actually someone kindly uploaded the 1953 Etudes shortly after I made the OP.

Can you tell me where? I checked the "search" here but couldn't find it.

ZB

[Drasko]

Can you tell me where? I checked the "search" here but couldn't find it.

ZB

http://quartier-des-archives.blogspot.com/search/label/Cortot

[ccar]

There's a really interesting Naxos disc of late Cortot performances already available -- a Kinderszenen and Chopin B flat minor sonata. I love them.
They have helped me enjoy the earlier recordings more, mainly because I have a better idea of his (rather special) sound.
Did you see him play?

I would certainly love to listen to that "special sound". But I was too young. He stopped his public performances in the late 1950's (his latter recording I have is from 1957) and probably his last recording is from 1960 (Master Classes at the Ecole Normal de Musique).
And I agree with you completely - Cortot's latter recordings can give us a more concrete idea of the lush thick tone he could get? But in spite of the imperfect notes I am also dazzled by the boldness of the phrasing. I know many may considerer it too much. But to be so "musical" and expressive out of the "normal limits" is an illuminating exercise for the listener and the mark of a rare musical talent.     

[ccar]

Gérard Souzay, with whom I studied, recorded Dichterliebe with Cortot in 1956, but it had not been released at the time. He told me that had been approached about approving a commercial release, and I mentioned to him the Turnabout/Vox issue, which he was not aware of (!). So he came over to listen to it so he would know what to tell the record company. It was certainly strange to be standing there with him, as he hearing for the first time this recording he had made 30 years before. Halfway through Im wunderschönen Monat Mai he asked me to take the needle off and said

"He was too old, and I was too young."

He didn't want it reissued, so perhaps Brendel was protecting Cortot -- but I'd like to hear it too.
'

Thank you for sharing the beauty of Souzay's comment. What a privilege to have worked with such an artist. 
For me Souzay is a most extraordinary singer and I must respect his own judgment. But, in spite of this, let me be honest in saying (I write while relistening to it) I always cherish this 1956 Dichterliebe, as one of the most intimate and poetical I Know. Perhaps it is, sometimes, the advantage of not being a musician. I just try to go for the music,  Knowing nothing about the notes.