Headphones or speakers?

[DavidRoss]

Which are prefered by you?

Headphones?  My best set for home use is the AKG-701 driven by a Channel Islands amp.  The crossfeed idea that Mark raised is an effort to simulate aural cues that fool your brain into hearing a more natural acoustic space, rather than the usual headphone effect of sound originating inside your head. 

[Brian]

Headphones roughly 98.2% of the time.

The last time I've listened to classical over speakers was when the laundromat played the local classical station.

[Henk]

Headphones?  My best set for home use is the AKG-701 driven by a Channel Islands amp.  The crossfeed idea that Mark raised is an effort to simulate aural cues that fool your brain into hearing a more natural acoustic space, rather than the usual headphone effect of sound originating inside your head. 

Why do you use an amp then after all (if you don't use crossfeed), and why an amp for headphones specifically?

[Henk]

Henk, search for, download and install foobar2000. Then search for and add in its crossfeed component. Set it up, plug in your headphones and give it a try. I guarantee you'll hear a more natural sound from some recordings, as scarpia rightly says.

Great tip. I did it, but I hardly noticed any difference.

[Mark]

Great tip. I did it, but I hardly noticed any difference.

Lucky man. You'll probably enjoy any pair of cans ...

[DavidRoss]

Why do you use an amp then after all (if you don't use crossfeed), and why an amp for headphones specifically?

I need something to amplify the signal from the source sufficiently to drive them.  Since I had to buy something to power my cans, I preferred spending less to get something that's designed for the job, rather than spending more for something that's not.

[sound67]

Speakers. Classical recordings are optimized for the use of speakers, headphone-optimized recordings need a completely different technology.

Regular A-B, Faulkner-AB, Decca Tree, XY, MS microphone setups (and the infinite varieties in between) were ALL developed for (stereo) speaker use.

A microphone system developed for headphone use is the Neumann "Kunstkopf"



For the use of speakers, this setup is useless, which is why this type of "binaural" recording (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_recording) is hardly ever employed.

Thomas

[Mark]

... headphone-optimized recordings ...

Care to cite an example of such a recording? I'm aware of none.

[sound67]

Me neither. But the setup is listed in every textbook on stereo recordings, so someone must have used it.

Last year when I made my first classical recording I dug into the literature a bit and opted for an A-B setup with additional mics for every instrument (in a string quartet).

Thomas

[DavidRoss]

Me neither. But the setup is listed in every textbook on stereo recordings, so someone must have used it.

Last year when I made my first classical recording I dug into the literature a bit and opted for an A-B setup with additional mics for every instrument (in a string quartet).

Gosh...I'd have taken you for a purist!

[sound67]

Gosh...I'd have taken you for a purist!

Additional mics are almost always used. In a string quartet e.g. a pure AB-setup wouldn't work because you need to pick up the cellist separately. So you can use either AB with one additional mic for the cello, or one for each instrument.

This is a small section of one of the pieces we recorded (final mix): http://www.bluenote-musik.de/ohne_hall.mp3

Even the famous Decca Tree, a triangle setup of identical microphones developed by Kenneth Wilkinson and others was routinely augmented by placing various supporting mics among the the orchestra.

A 2-mics only approach for chamber/orchestral performances is great in theory, but because of the unpredictability of recording venues it is uncommon. Denon was a company that proposed using a single microphone pair (e.g. for the Inbal Mahler).

Thomas

[scarpia]

Additional mics are almost always used. In a string quartet e.g. a pure AB-setup wouldn't work because you need to pick up the cellist separately. So you can use either AB with one additional mic for the cello, or one for each instrument.

This is a small section of one of the pieces we recorded (final mix): http://www.bluenote-musik.de/ohne_hall.mp3

Even the famous Decca Tree, a triangle setup of identical microphones developed by Kenneth Wilkinson and others was routinely augmented by placing various supporting mics among the the orchestra.

A 2-mics only approach for chamber/orchestral performances is great in theory, but because of the unpredictability of recording venues it is uncommon. Denon was a company that proposed using a single microphone pair (e.g. for the Inbal Mahler).

Thomas

Decca only supplanted their tree, first with two "out-riggers" then with multiple spot mikes, later on.  Minimal miking was also used by RCA, Mercury, Sony, Telarc, BIS, with great results.  Of course it depends on an appropriate recording venue and great attention to the placement of the microphones.
 

[Frankler]

can't hear the phone with headphones. 

[DavidRoss]

can't hear the phone with headphones. 

Sounds like a plus to me!

[Frankler]

Sounds like a plus to me!

It would also be easier for someone to sneek up on you with a knife!

[DavidRoss]

It would also be easier for someone to sneek up on you with a knife!

A sense of humor is always welcome 'round here!

[Rod Corkin]

Care to cite an example of such a recording? I'm aware of none.

An interesting notion in that some CM recordings I have seem to have a better balance when heard on headphones. Also I have photos of CM producers in the studio seemingly directing matters whilst listening through headphones. If so I think this is a mistake. Maybe it explains so many unnatural things in recordings, for example the impossibly vast dynamic range one often hears.

[DavidRoss]

An interesting notion in that some CM recordings I have seem to have a better balance when heard on headphones. Also I have photos of CM producers in the studio seemingly directing matters whilst listening through headphones. If so I think this is a mistake. Maybe it explains so many unnatural things in recordings, for example the impossibly vast dynamic range one often hears.

(a) Recording engineers listening through headphones are attending to attributes other than "imaging" (the apparent distribution of sound in space).
(b) Dynamic range of a CD = 96dB.  Dynamic range of an orchestra or rock band > 115dB.

[71 dB]

Dynamic range of an orchestra or rock band > 115dB.

Really? You forget the background noise. The audience of a rock concert makes easily 70 dB noise. 115 dB - 70 dB = 45 dB is the usable dynamic range.

[DavidRoss]

Really? You forget the background noise. The audience of a rock concert makes easily 70 dB noise. 115 dB - 70 dB = 45 dB is the usable dynamic range.

That observation--correct in principle though not in particulars--is not relevant to the issue.