Make a Jazz Noise Here

[Mirror Image]

I must confess i'm not really into Jazz singers. When i do listen to them, i tend to gravitate towards artists with a more "instrumental" approach, or artists that pair with good musicians.

Shirley Horne, Diana Krall, and Cassandra Wilson are my to-go-to jazz vocalists.

[bwv 1080]

this is the best Weather Report album IMO

http://www.youtube.com/v/76KbasbPm9Q

http://www.youtube.com/v/0xB2wZTmWC8&feature=related

[jowcol]

I must confess i'm not really into Jazz singers. When i do listen to them, i tend to gravitate towards artists with a more "instrumental" approach, or artists that pair with good musicians.

I'm quite the same-- I typically avoid vocals unless there is someone who really adds something distinctive.

[jowcol]

I combined two preferences of mine: 1) piano-less groups and 2) straight-ahead, post-bop jazz guitar led groups with these recordings:

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And what is now repackaged as "Standards" but was first released as "Remembering"

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I'm a big fan of Grant Green's Matador-- it had McCoy Tyner and Elvin Jones, and the covers of My Favorite Things and Duke Pearson's Bedouin are wonderful.

The Idle Moments album has some great work, particularly the title track, which accidentally went nearly twice a long as they had originally planned.

[Leon]

I'm a big fan of Grant Green's Matador-- it had McCoy Tyner and Elvin Jones, and the covers of My Favorite Things and Duke Pearson's Bedouin are wonderful.

The Idle Moments album has some great work, particularly the title track, which accidentally went nearly twice a long as they had originally planned.

I agree that those are good records, especially Idle Moments.  But, I chose the other two because they had no piano.  That sound is one of my favorites, and Sonny Rollins made several recordings with that make-up:  A Night at the Village Vanguard, Way Out West, and the landmark Freedom Suite.

Thee are many others, Kenny Garrett made a good record with just bass (Charnett Moffet) and drums (Brian BLade), and so did Joe Lovano (Dave Holland, Elvin Jones).  Speaking of, Dave Holland did a great trio record with Steve Coleman and Jack DeJohnette.

That's just a few that are my faves, but this combo has become popular for at least one record by many sax players - and I think Sonny Rollins was the first to seem to spend a lot of time in that setting.

[jowcol]

John McLaughlin brought his revived Indo-jazz project Shakti to Bombay (Mumbai) in late 2000, and the result is this live disc, which features only four compositions but runs over an hour in length. (The title is a deliberate play on 1980's Friday Night in San Francisco.) McLaughlin's electric guitar and Zakir Hussain's tabla remain at the core of the group's sound. U. Shrinivas (on mandolin) and V. Selvaganesh (on kanjira, ghatam, and mridangam, all Indian percussion instruments) remain from the previous album, but there are also a number of Indian guest musicians, giving the music many added dimensions. The most remarkable guests are Debashish Bhattacharya on Hindustani slide guitar, Shankar Mahadevan on vocals, and Shiv Kumar Sharma on santur, an Indian hammered dulcimer. Sharma composed the second track, "Shringar"; nearly half an hour long, it consists almost entirely of a hypnotic dialogue between santur and guitar. Mahadevan's vocal performance on the opening "Luki" resounds with spiritual power, while Shrinivas's "Giriraj Sudha" gives a sunny, optimistic lift to the somewhat mournful set.

I've been listening to this one a lot recently, particularly the long cut Shringar.   

I was definitely a fan of the original Shakti albums from the 70s, but I must confess as I grew to appreciate Indian classical music more, I found myself listening to those albums less.  Those earlier albums albums were loaded with talent (Zakkir Hussein is is tied with Elvin Jones for my favorite drummers/percussionist of the 20th century) and John McL could definitely handle the Indian Talas (rhythmic patterns),  I never felt they really reflected the sense of development that makes Indian classical so compelling. To me,  in the Remember Shakti tour (late 90s and on), he approached the music with more reverence for the structure of a classical raga.  Shringar on this album is an excellent example of Jugalbondi, or a raga with two soloists.   One of the things that really stands out is how McLaughlin slows down in the beginning during the Alap portion, and plays with a sense of minimalism and beauty that he hadn't shown too frequently since his inspired "less is more" playing on In a Silent Way. 

It also doesn't hurt that the other soloist is the Indian Santur (Hammered Dulcimer) master Shivkumar Sharma, who happens to be my favorite Indian musician. 

What this song really succeeds at is capturing the slow, inexorable sense of development in a raga, starting from a very simple, free meter exploration of the scale, and advancing degree by degree into withering runs of great beauty and dazzling technique.  The space the two artists leave each other is also just as telling.

Anyway-- this is worth it if you like east-west fusion with a little more weight on the Eastern side than the earlier Shakti albums.

[Leon]

Listening to this by Anouar Brahem, whom I discovered because of a trio date with John Surman and Dave Holland and fell in love with his style -

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A Tunisian oud player who has made about 13 CDs fo ECM, I have gotten my hands on as many as I can find, and they are all wonderful.

[jowcol]

and this Shakti album sounds doubtful.. 4 cuts that last an hour? You know it's got lots of indulgent pointless noodling ...

The longest track is actually structured far closer to Indian Classical tradition than any of the other Shakti I've heard-- would you call that whole tradition "pointless noodling"?

I never liked his playing on IASW .. it meanders so much with little development, and his tone grates etc ..

If that is the case, what would you say about the musical taste and discernment of someone who thinks that John McL's playing on IASW was the best of his career, and thinks that John McL's playing on Early Minor (from the box set) was the best thing that John ever did?

[karlhenning]

Gosh, his tone even grates on that album, jowcol ; ) LOL

[bwv 1080]

don't know the live in bombay albym, but this one has a 33' track which is an actual raga (Chandrakauns) played by Hariprasad Chaurasia

and the raga has only 5 notes in it BTW

[jowcol]

don't know the live in bombay albym, but this one has a 33' track which is an actual raga (Chandrakauns) played by Hariprasad Chaurasia

and the raga has only 5 notes in it BTW

I like that one a lot as well.  I'm a bit more partial to the Santur as an instrument, but I'm biased-- I play the western version of it.  In both cases, it's really refreshing to hear a "crossover" album use the raga structure.

BTW, there in in interesting description of the first album here based on inteviews  with McLaughlin and Hussain here:

http://www.innerviews.org/inner/shakti.html

In particular. I found this section here addressing the primary difference in directions between the "old" and "new" Shakti:

But it's a very different record from Shakti, Handful of Beauty and Natural Elements, the three albums that comprise the group's '70s output. Those albums focused largely on short tracks, along with an occasional 10-to-15 minute mini-epic. In general, they featured a fiery blend of catchy acoustic pyrotechnics that showcased a youthful quartet determined to prove its mettle, as well as champion what was ostensibly a new genre of music. But for Remember Shakti, McLaughlin, 57, and Hussain, 48, preferred to let their music ebb and flow in a more restrained, meditative and traditional Indian manner, hence the 33-minute "Chandrakauns" and 65-minute "Mukti." These pieces include few Western influences. At their core—as with all Indian classical music—is the raga, a highly-formalized and systematic melodic form. A raga features combinations and sets of notes specifically designed to evoke distinct atmospheres, moods and emotions. When creating or performing a raga, the pitch, note sequence and intricate relationship and interaction between each note are all paramount factors. The raga form encourages a very intellectual type of improvisation that performers are required to balance with their intuitive leanings—the sort that appears all over Remember Shakti.

"Things went the natural Indian way," said McLaughlin. "This, of course, included the introduction of the raga, the various ways of collective playing and the principal improvisations from the soloists. As musicians, we are playing notes, music and rhythms and we hope to play the right melody in the correct way, but this is only part of the process. The other side that is important is the communication of the musicians and the playing and playfulness that comes from that interaction. You can put a piece of music in front of somebody and he may play it perfectly. So what? Interplay and interaction are the integral parts of music—they're as important as the notes. Without them, I don't think I'd be here. You can't just play over someone. There are many examples in jazz fusion in which you have a soloist playing over a steady drumbeat and I find this terribly boring, because I want to hear the interaction between two people. I want to know what kind of imagination and spontaneity they have. Only in spontaneity can we be who we truly are."

Also interesting was the reaction of Hussain's father (Allarakha, a leading tabla player) to the original band, although I'm not sure as a purist he would have liked the later band  as much either...

Hussain's father Ustad Allarakha is one of those great traditionalists. As one of India's most revered tabla players, he initially did not look kindly upon his son's decision to join Shakti. "Shakti was not Indian Music, it was not American music. They made something else," he told Folk Roots magazine in 1987. "Some numbers I like, some numbers I don't like. Zakir, I told him not to do that."

"He felt I had to make my name as an Indian musician before anything else was to happen," recalled Hussain. "In the beginning, he did have problems with it. As a teacher, he was worried that I would drift to the other side of the world and sever my connection with India. I convinced him that will not be and then proved that through my actions and it was fine. My deal with him was 'Okay, I am going to play Indian classical music and I will travel to India regularly and play concerts there and have the audience accept me as an Indian classical musician. On my own time, I am going to do what I enjoy doing apart from Indian music.' Even now, 80 percent of the time I am performing Indian classical music. It is rare that I get involved in playing anything else."

Fortunately for Hussain and his father, McLaughlin was interested in embracing, not tarnishing the traditions of Indian classical music within Shakti's milieu.

"When I play with John, it's not like playing with a Western musician," said Hussain. "It's like playing with an Indian musician believe it or not. John has taken the time to study Indian classical music and figure out how we work, how we think and what our improvising techniques are. Myself, I have had the good fortune to study and understand the Western ways of musical thinking be it jazz, pop or rock. In terms of musical interaction with John, it's a bit more detailed now than before, but the same love and affection for one another is there. The fabulous thing is that connection hasn't changed. I never feel like I'm working with someone strange from a different tradition and he doesn't feel that way either."

[jowcol]

No .. but's not as rich that's for sure. Texturally & harmonically it gets boring pretty quickly ... and in terms of color it's dull too.

It helps to know the structure and forms to appreciate  those traditions - I admit I know the Hindustani better then the Karnatic.

Harmonically I'd have to agree with you, as it is static. (And loses something in depth when played with  equal tempered instruments.)  If you are looking for much harmonic variety, this is definitely not the place for you.  In terms of texture if you are referring to basic timbre or number of voices/instruments I'd also agree.  It's very much revolving around a soloist and limited accompanyment.  (In live performances, you can wait an hour for the tabla player to jump in.) 

I find "rich" a more subjective term.  For me, in terms of rhythm and melodic improvisation I find it very impressive, and there is little in Western music that matches nuance, phrasing, and improvisation of the Alap in Indian music-- although that is the part that  newcomers usually hate the most, it's gotten to be my favorite.  So coming back to rich-- I find this tradition richer in some areas than a lot of western music, and positively anemic in others.

John soared up & way beyond that Miles track with Mahavishnu & fresher early Shakti .. as a composer, and player. Can't be argued.

So what would be your assessment of someone who would try to argue that John's playing in the IASW sessions was the best of his career?  Do you think an educated musician could feel that way?

[jowcol]

Texture? Layers of music .. the complexity and depth of the harmonies etc. With Indian, a lot of it is very busy and fast, frantic at fever pitch .. some find this impressive

busy and fast tends not to occur until that latter parts of a Raga-- the slow unfolding in the Alap is what rocks my world.  The reason I don't go back to the early Shakti albums as much was that they only focused on the latter parts-- It's like watching chase scenes from a lot of movies without any character development.

.. and it can be, but only for so long. I need breadth & variety in music & composition in order to listen for longer periods. You take a WR, Mahavishnu, or RTF album or 2 .. which average at about 35-40 minutes in length and there is a lot more across the board musically.

I cannot disagree with someone who knows what they want and how their head is wired.  Frankly, I think that is the best we can do most of the time. Although there are times I love to see an artist develop the same material for a longer period of time-- (Bach's Passacaglia and Fugue?  Coltrane's version of of My Favorite Things?).   And these days, I tend to spend more of my time listening to the Mahavishnu live stuff that stretches out the original stuff further.  But there are times when I'm happier with shorter works.   I would not go as far as to say that the classic 70s fusion albums had more musically than a tradition with hundreds of years behind it, but it comes down to a matter of choice.

Quote from: jowcol on Today at 03:00:21 PM

    So what would be your assessment of someone who would would try to argue that John's playing in the IASW sessions was the best of his career?

They're entitled to that, but I would think they're pretty off .. John's own essence, style & confidence really as a leader, composer & player - heck as a real creative force -  really coalesced & came to fruition after Miles, blossoming with Mahavishnu.

In this case, the person who was pretty far off was none other than Joe Zawinul, but he may not have benefited from your erudition.

This had a lot to do with Miles's presence. He told John McLaughlin to play as if he didn't know how to play the guitar. As a result John's playing was among the best of his career. I think the way he plays on 'Early Minor'  [one of the previously unreleased tracks issued on The In A Silent Way Sessions], he's never played that good. The things he played with Miles were very creative and not so busy, not so much about speed.

[karlhenning]

And now, because some mornings you know you want Jn McLaughlin's "grating" tone . . . .

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[jowcol]

And now, because some mornings you know you want Jn McLaughlin's "grating" tone . . . .

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Why stop there?  THere are times when you need to open yourself up to the most wrenching, cathartic, dissonant stuff you can imagine.  Jazz is about pushing the envelope, dammit!   

[karlhenning]

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[Leon]

That cover always reminds me of The Basement Tapes:




Not that they are really that similar, but something about the colors and the pose are linked in my mind.

Great Monk recording, btw.

[karlhenning]

That cover always reminds me of The Basement Tapes

Yes. I almost hear Monk singing, "Please, Mrs Henry . . . ."

Great Monk recording, btw.

And yes, again!

[Mirror Image]

Ugly Beauty is one of my favorite Monk tunes. Such a lovely song.

[karlhenning]

Ugly Beauty is one of my favorite Monk tunes. Such a lovely song.

I just cued that back up for a repeat listen. Even some crudities in Charlie Rouses's tenor do not at all mar this.