Make a Jazz Noise Here

[KevinP]

Johnny Griffin's tenure with Thelonious Monk is severely underrated I think. This is a remarkable disc in every way imaginable.

Agree 100%. Also under-represented on recordings.

[jowcol]

I have a few CDs of Classical Indian Music, this is one is one I consider good:

Traditional Music of India

Ali Akbar Khan

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I also have a couple of other anthologies but am not in front of my home computer to find the titles.

One thing, to judge this music by western standards completely misses the point.  I like much of what I've heard, and plan on expanding my collection beyond what I already have.  It is a very interesting and complex music, that even superficially can be very enjoyable to listen to for a newbie.

I'd love to pursue this topic at greater  length-- suggest we take it over to http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,17099.msg444206.html#msg444206.  I also may be able to hook you up with some OOP releases.

[jowcol]

Okay-- let's explore the logical outcomes of the following assertions:

First, you had the assertion that the "worth" of music was objectively identifiable.

The music is there, it totally exists. It's not a subjective thing ... the fact that 'ears' can't hear it are another matter entirely.

I responded with the example of Stravinsky, who had changed his preferences over time.

How come Stravinsky went from detesting Beethoven in the 20's to saying he was "infinitely precious" in the 50s?  Even the same person's ears change over time-- because the music didn't.   A lot of how music is perceived is shaped by non-acoustic expectations, prejudices etc. 

You replied with the following.

Yup. Listening is a skill that grows and develops. Time & maturity play a role also.

Let's apply a bit of first order propositional  logic to these assertions. 

Proposition A: You have confirmed the that relative worth of Beethoven is not a subjective assessment, but something that "totally exists". 

Proposition B: You've also pointed out that Stravinsky's ability to grow to appreciate Beethoven showed that, in his earlier years, he had not developed the sufficient skill and maturity to appreciate Beethoven's work.

If we assume both of these assertions are "real facts" and not opinions, what would it imply about the current skill level and maturity of someone that thinks that the "bombastic" "Drama Queen" Beethoven is "overrated?"

Does it imply this person may be lacking in both?

[Leon]

I am not a fan of Indian/fusion - the McLaughlin stuff is "okay" but, by and large, I vastly prefer the traditional Hindustani music.  Of course, I am not a fan of fusion jazz in general as for the most part it seems to lean heavily in the pumped-up-technique & overly arranged direction which is a direction that becomes tedious for me after a short while.

[jowcol]

I can't speak for Stravinsky, so I ignored that.

Here, enjoy some Prasanna ..

Sobhillu Saptaswara
http://www.youtube.com/v/PDrwJYcQYTs

Pot Belly Blues
http://www.youtube.com/v/6cOsuzC2OV8

4th Stone from the Sun
http://www.youtube.com/v/csOB2rT2hNs

http://www.youtube.com/v/-M-KqeyfEVU


>> http://www.guitarprasanna.com/

Interesting stuff, I'll want to dig a bit deeper, but worth a further look for sure.

ALso interesting that he's written several film scores....

[jowcol]

Based on a quick listen, Prasanna can definitely play the classical material.

This one is in seven parts, I'll just link the first. 

http://www.youtube.com/v/dlbrrudWgxU

Based on what I've heard so far, I'd be tempted to dig deeper into his classical albums, but there are a some nice tracks on the Ganesha Land album that have some of that fire of the old MO.

[Leon]

That clip is much better than the other ones - but still, if I want to listen to this music, I'll go with the traditional instruments.   

[Bogey]

Scott Henderson guitar, guitar synthesizer
Gary Willis bass, synthesizers
David Goldblatt keyboards
Joey Heredia drums
Brad Dutz percussion

Noting the ensemble should be standard on the jazz posts....I need to start doing this.

[Bogey]

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Cool jazz.....outstanding disc, but then I love Getz's work.  As Coltrane once said, "Everyone wants to sound like Stan Getz."

Getz: Tenor Sax
Lou Levy: Piano (played with Ella, Dorsey, Goodman, Peggy Lee. etc)
Leroy Vinneger: Bass

Steve Levey: Drums
Steve performed with:
Charlie Parker
Miles Davis
Dizzy Gillespie
Johnny Acea
Oscar Smith
Oscar Peterson
Roy Eldridge
Oscar Pettiford
Don Byas
Conte Candolfi
Budo Johnson
George Wallington
Flip Tate
Coleman Hawkins
Ben Webster
Erroll Garner
Thelonious Monk
Allen Eager
George Shearing
Barney Bigard
Joe Thomas
Billy Taylor
Bob Cooper
Al Haig
Ray Brown
Milt Jackson
Lucky Thompson
Chuck Wayne
Art Tatum
Ella Fitzgerald
Stan Getz
Richie Kamuca
Norman Granz
Bill Holman
Howard Rumsey
Stan Kenton
Joe Mondragon
Conte Candolfi
Chet Baker
Chris Connor
Herb Ellis
Victor Feldman

Not too shabby.

[Bogey]

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1957

Miles: Horn
Barney Wilen: Tenor Sax (did a little work with Monk)
Rene Urtreger: Piano (did some work with the likes of Lionel Hampton, Stan Getz, Chet Baker, Dexter Gordon, Sonny Rollins)
Pierre Michelot; Bass (some stints with Monk, Lester Young, Dexter Gordon, Stan Getz, Bud Powell,  Dizzy Gillespie, Chet Baker, etc.)
Kenny Clarke: Drums (some with  Charlie Parker, Dizzy Gillespie, Thelonious Monk, etc.)

[Bogey]

[asin]B000AV2GCE[/asin]
1957

Monk
'Trane
Ahmed Abdul-Malik; Bass (some Art Blakey)
Shadow Wilson: Drums ( Benny Carter,  Lionel Hampton, Earl Hines, Count Basie, and Woody Herman.Ella Fitzgerald, Sonny Stitt, etc)

Nice 20+ page liner note set....may have to read that in bed tonight.  check the poster and prices for the concert:

[Mirror Image]

[asin]B000AV2GCE[/asin]
1957

Monk
'Trane
Ahmed Abdul-Malik; Bass (some Art Blakey)
Shadow Wilson: Drums ( Benny Carter,  Lionel Hampton, Earl Hines, Count Basie, and Woody Herman.Ella Fitzgerald, Sonny Stitt, etc)

Nice 20+ page liner note set....may have to read that in bed tonight.  check the poster and prices for the concert:

I'm usually not one for Coltrane, but I loved his work with Monk and Miles. That recording is outstanding. I'm a huge Monk fan by the way.

[Bogey]

I'm usually not one for Coltrane, but I loved his work with Monk and Miles. That recording is outstanding. I'm a huge Monk fan by the way.

I am just the opposite....but not to worry, I will break through on Monk fully as there are already cracks in the granite.  As for "Trane....top-shelf.

[Bogey]

On the Carnegie Hall recording, I would say that Shadow is the weak link in the performance.  Maybe he was just poorly miked, but his palying is falling short for me.

[Leon]

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A decent guitar jazz recording by a guitarist I was not familiar with until recently.  I am glad to hear a jazz fusion guy (he actually made his name as a thrash metal palyer) not bury the jazz with rock infested riffs.

Tha All Music Guide's entry:

Pat Boone's In a Metal Mood: No More Mr. Nice Guy was a tongue-in-cheek affair that few were willing to acknowledge. How else was one to explain a 63-year-old pop singer (who hadn't had any hits for over 30 years) suddenly covering '70s hard rock classics? By contrast, guitarist Alex Skolnick, who had enjoyed considerable success as lead guitarist for Testament and later Savatage, deserves kudos for essentially scrapping his rock & roll career to study, learn, and play jazz. Upon leaving Savatage after Handful of Rain Skolnick enrolled in the jazz department of New York's New School University. It was there that he began to formulate his notion of applying jazz arrangements to hard rock songs by Kiss, Aerosmith, Scorpions, Black Sabbath, and the Who. After all, since pop songs from past decades were accepted into the jazz vernacular and have since become standards, why should rock & roll pieces from the '70s and '80s not be treated similarly? Skolnick has a point. In fact if you hadn't heard the original versions of "Detroit Rock City," "Dream On," and "War Pigs," chances are you'd never suspect that they originated as hard rock songs. While Goodbye to Romance is, by and large, a straight-ahead jazz effort recalling the genius of Wes Montgomery, John McLaughlin, and Stanley Jordan, Skolnick unfurls his former rock & roll-isms on a couple of instances; on both the Ozzy Osbourne-penned title track and the Skolnick original "Skol Blues," he reminds you of his previous lifestyle with some lightning-fast guitar solos, however, more in the lines of McLaughlin than the metal tendencies of Testament. A young, empathetic rhythm section of John Graham-Davis and Matt Zebroski on bass and drums was enlisted to assist Skolnick in his ambitious undertaking. They, too, perform impeccably, contributing dutifully to these "standards for a new generation."

[Bogey]

Earlier:


1957

Monk
'Trane: Tenor Sax
Ray Copeland: trumpet
Gigi gryce: Alto Sax
Coleman Hawkins: Tenor Sax
Wilbur Ware: bass
Art Blakely: Drums



1967-68
Monk
Charlie Rouse: Tenor
Larry Gales: Bass
Ben Riley: Drums

From the liner notes:

A word about the cover photograph . . .

Although the illustration on the album cover may seem a trifle bizarre to the uninitiated, knowing intimates of Monk will recognize the setting as that of his studio, an important part of his Manhattan apartment. In this atelier are the memorabilia of an adventurous and richly rewarding life. Most noticeable, perhaps, is the Nazi storm trooper. As real as he looks, he is stuffed, a trophy of Monk's forays as a member of the French Resistance movement in World War II, the famed FFI.With a cry of "Take that, you honkie Kraut!" Capitaine Monk shot him cleanly and truly through the heart. He weighed 187 pounds, dressed. Thelonious' only pet is the cow who answers to the name Jellyroll and has the run of the apartment. It is interesting to know that Capitaine Monk had access to a piano throughout the combat and would never go on a mission without warming up with some forty or fifty choruses of "Darkness on the Delta." The field telephone on the wall, a memento of Normandy, now serves as a direct line to Le Pavillon in the event he wishes to order a delivery of French soul food. The rest of the objects are really almost self explanatory - the Nazi battle flag he captured at Nuremburg, the dynamite he used so often on key objectives in Germany, the grenades, machine pistol, the .45 automatic - all of them bring tears of nostalgia to Monk's eyes as he thinks of action-packed years gone by. He was part of the underground then - for years in post-war America his piano was part of the underground of jazz. Now, and indeed for the past few years, this jazz giant is emerging as the great artist he has always been, one of the most inventive jazzmen in history.

Actually, the title of this album, UNDERGROUND is something of a misnomer - Monk surfaced long ago! He has been committing thelonious assaults on certain hidebound enclaves of jazz since the mid-Forties, and the attacks are beginning to tell. Oh yes, about the girl with the firearm in the background. No explanation was asked, nor was one forthcoming.

- Gil McKean.

[Bogey]

1966

Cannonball: Alto
Nat Adderly: Cornet
Joe Zawinul: Piano
Herbie Lewis: Bass
Roy McCurdy: Drums

[mahler10th]

I once had a jazz album by Theolonius Monk, and I took a real liking to it. It was recordings from 1958.  As it is the only jazz I have ever taken a liking to, perhaps I have not heard enough to so vociferously condemn it.  I wish I could remember what that album was, perhaps a compilation of Monk pieces 1957 - 1958, or some kind of 'cellar' recording.
Well, sometimes one is forced to wake up to ones prejudices and question them, so I have to get to know Jazz better before I become a complete asshole, if indeed I don't exhibit such traits already.
So, anyone know what sounds like Theolonius Monk circa 1958?  I will at least give something a try, and I promise not to trash Jazz any more, as it is rather silly of me.   

Hang on, it might be this, although the cover is different...it's title rings a bell and maybe I'm wrong about it being '58!

[mahler10th]

Right, there you are, I'm not messing around, I got the above album and I know from the first track (Thelonius) two things:
[asin]B0000AVHBO[/asin]

I have learned two important things:
1.  This is definitely the album I liked.  The first track is superb.
2.  I have been spelling Monks first name wrong.

What other jazz is like this?
er...I am just listening to a track called 'Raise Four' - this is great!  I need to hear more of THIS KIND OF JAZZ.         Anyone recommend one more jazz album for me to buy this month which compliments this 'kind' of Jazz?  Indeed, what 'kind' of Jazz is it,??   

[mahler10th]

Hey John .. perhaps try another Monk album since his music seems to speak to you already.

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01 I'm An Old Cowhand (From The Rio Grande) (Johnny Mercer)
02 Solitude (Duke Ellington)
03 Come, Gone (Rollins)
04 Wagon Wheels (Peter DeRose)
05 There Is No Greater Love (Isham Jones)
06 Way Out West (Rollins)

Sonny Rollins tenor saxophone
Ray Brown bass
Shelly Manne drums

That is a very shrewd suggestion my friend, as it has Country sounding track names and a Country music looking cover (minus the sax).  I am super impressed with this move because you must know Country Music to me is as bad as William McGonigle poems.  Hats off to you Sir, a superb maneouvere, and I feel reckless enough to take up the challenge and get it.
Compliments!