Make a Jazz Noise Here

[Grazioso]

Yea .. there is tonnes out there, but don't be fooled by that, or the numerous 'name tags' people stick on all of it ... it actually dwarfs comparatively to the musical breadth & depth that one is to find in the vast & expansive western art music legacy.

Who's trying to fool people? It's a conspiracy by those Aboriginal didgeridoo players, I tell you  And what's this bigger is better idea? The Gobi desert is vast and expansive, but I'd rather be under some shade trees by a lake.

[Grazioso]

(chuckles) .. on a board such as this, you still need that? really? .. where the very earliest of the legacy all through to the relatively current music and developments are posted about quite frequently. Hit the library I don't have time to educate you, do that .. and then maybe we can have a level talk.

Since everything is obvious to you, analyzing and comparing a few pieces should pose no problems. Hit us with your vast knowledge, Master.

tremendous left-hand reach and ultra-lyrical whammy touch ..

Uh oh, dusty Google quotes! 

[karlhenning]

ultra-lyrical whammy touch

LOL

[Grazioso]

Have you listened to Allan Holdsworth? (you should)

Do you know what a whammy bar is?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whammy_bar

I play guitar and know what a whammy bar is. I was implying that you might want to use quotes and attributions when you use another person's words. It's good form. Those are lifted from a guitar book.

Not required at all. Look around the board, you'll find a lot here that is evidence enough if you're so totally in the dark about it all.

Oh, I see: a message board is musical analysis. I was confused there. No need to go to school, all you aspiring composers and musicians, just go online and chat about your favorite recordings! Who needs Schenker when you have the "Purchases today" thread?  Schoenberg could have saved so much time from writing Theory of Harmony if he had just had YouTube! 

[Grazioso]

I wasn't asking you.

Quite right. My mistake.

No analysis necessary.

That's impressive that you can learn about and pass judgment on something without actually studying it.

[Mirror Image]

For fans of ECM-style Euro jazz:



These guys are impressive. They were playing with Tomasz Stanko for a number of years.

http://www.youtube.com/v/jeIwfde-Okg

Yes, and their recordings with Tomasz Stanko still impress me, especially this one:

[asin]B0000V765G[/asin]

[Grazioso]

Yes, and their recordings with Tomasz Stanko still impress me, especially this one:

[asin]B0000V765G[/asin]

I love that album. Which brings me to its successor, with Stanko's young Finnish band:



I still haven't warmed to this one despite repeated listens. Seems a bit too brittle and sparse and maybe even directionless, and the guitarist seems underutilized. OTOH, perhaps nice music for a film noir...

Thoughts?

Oh but I have, I've been listening to it and absorbing it my whole life, everyday .. which is the same.

On this board which is like a microcosm of the legacy itself you see it all .. people discussing and listening to the huge polyphonic beautiful vocal edifices of the earliest music right through to pure electronic music composed in multiple channels to be projected in complete surround sound over booming loudspeakers & beyond, and virtually everything musical in-between from all periods & eras - all parameters exhausted & covered, right down to the atoms themselves. From the most ancient musics to where truly the newest of the new 'in music' is to be found and consolidated. A musical legacy of richness, breadth & depth that is truly extraordinary, unequalled and expanding as I type this ..

James, I take your point. I've been listening to classical music avidly for a couple decades now, everything from Medieval liturgical music to contemporary works. I have a wall lined with classical CD's, have formally studied classical music history, and play classical music (as an amateur). In other words, I'm hardly a stranger to the tradition, and obviously it encompasses a lot of ground.

Where I differ with you is in a few key points:

* that diversity somehow equates with or implies depth, or that "depth" is obvious or means anything specific about music. It's way too easy to bandy that term around have it mean whatever one wants it to. Is depth a measure of how much a piece moves you, or its influence on other composers, or is it the way it modulates or shifts rhythms or utilizes voice leading or... How does someone measure and compare such things to say X has "depth" but Y is shallow?

I've been listening to it and absorbing it my whole life, everyday .. which is the same.

* That's not correct. A person can listen to music all he wants and have no conscious idea of what's happening in it.  (And that seems to be true of the great majority of listeners, since so many people lack musical training these days.) It's one thing to hear a piece, another to really listen and absorb small details (quick--what do the violas do in bar 12?), and another to be able to analyze and articulate what's happening as a composer/musician/educated listener in Hadyn's day hears it. E.g., what's the key, the meter, the chord progression, the intervals of a melody, etc? How specifically is a composer adhering to or deviating from accepted forms? What's the effect of the arrangement choices? How could they have been handled differently? And so on down the line. I.e., what's happening musically?

It's like how millions of people love the movies and watch dozens of them every year, but very few could tell you how a shot was lit or discuss how the editing of a scene affects pacing and so on. Even fewer could tell you how to storyboard a film or run an Avid machine or create Foley effects, etc. I.e., much of the film (and film-making) is ignored or not understood despite being enjoyed. Exposure to and enjoyment of something doesn't equal study, analysis, explication, or understanding.

[Grazioso]

I never said 'diversity' = depth. If you don't understand what breadth & depth implies with regards to the accumulation of western art music over that great stretch of time than you're a lost cause. 

What's not correct? Again, you have troubles simply reading what I actually said. It's a very basic simple point I am making, analysis isn't required to understand it.

I would say rather that you're the lost cause. I (or others) try to have a rational discussion with you, and you fall back on the same vague generalities and ad hominems instead of engaging in intelligent discourse. I ask again, what is this musical "depth" you always speak of but never define or provide examples of?

You ask what's not correct: your statement that listening to a lot of classical music is "the same" as studying it. I explained in detail why that's not the case. Hearing music doesn't mean you know about it, any more than walking through a museum makes you an art expert. Someone can listen to The 48 forty-eight times and still not be able to read the score, play it, analyze it, or explain it. They're listening for pleasure--which is perfectly fine--but it doesn't mean they know anything about it.

[karlhenning]

I would say rather that you're the lost cause. I (or others) try to have a rational discussion with you, and you fall back on the same vague generalities and ad hominems instead of engaging in intelligent discourse.

Thanks for reminding me to revisit this soul-restorative chuckle.

[Grazioso]

Thanks for reminding me to revisit this soul-restorative chuckle.

Pffft! 

[karlhenning]

Monk & 'Trane

[asin]B000AV2GCE[/asin]

[Grazioso]

What the hell were they thinking?  Some delightfully virtuosic and funny big-band bebop that must have had fans of Glenn Miller and his ilk scratching their head at those jagged, start-stop melodies and stomach-turning chords. "What's this crazy Chinese music?!" (to borrow from Cab Calloway). Includes classics like "Manteca", "Anthropology", "Night in Tunisia", etc. A bonus highlight is Lionel Hampton's ripping vibe solo on "Hot Mallets."

[Grazioso]

I can't have an intelligent discussion with a total moron, I'd say your I.Q. is definitely in the low 70s.

Classy, as always. OK, I will use low-IQ words then: Blah blah blah pfft. Oh wait, those are your words 

[Dancing Divertimentian]

You're the total imbecile trying complicate things with a bunch of nothing when you don't even understand the very basic point I was making - that is, that the western art music legacy is one of unparalled breadth and depth. Asking me to prove or justify to you what that breadth or depth entails in relation to that simple point, proves to me that you are a big big dummy who refuses to think at all. Plus you 'claim' to be an amateur musician who plays? Wow .. an intelligent discussion is a non-starter with your ilk.

Oh, shut up, James.

[Mirror Image]

I love that album. Which brings me to its successor, with Stanko's young Finnish band:



I still haven't warmed to this one despite repeated listens. Seems a bit too brittle and sparse and maybe even directionless, and the guitarist seems underutilized. OTOH, perhaps nice music for a film noir...

I have not heard this recording, Grazioso, but I own all the ones he made with his early group w/ pianist Bobo Stenson and his trio plus the new one with the young Polish musicians (Wasilewski, etc.). I think the recordings he made with Wasilewski were his best: Soul of Things, Suspended Night, and Lontano. They also made a recording with a string orchestra, which is this one:

[asin]B000ILYYKS[/asin]

It's one of their best, but it's running time is quite short, but it's an excellent recording.

[Grazioso]

Thanks. More of his recordings with Wasilewski and Co. are on my "to hear" list. I just hope his future recordings with his new group have a little more life to them.

Have you heard any Komeda (with whom Stanko played)?

[Mirror Image]

Thanks. More of his recordings with Wasilewski and Co. are on my "to hear" list. I just hope his future recordings with his new group have a little more life to them.

Have you heard any Komeda (with whom Stanko played)?

Honestly, once Wasilewski and his trio left Stanko, I haven't been very interested in his music. His earlier output I'm not very familiar with, so, no, I have not heard any of his work with Komeda.

[karlhenning]

Celebrating Canada Day with a blast from the High School Daze past:

[asin]B00000273G[/asin]

[karlhenning]

Celebrating Canada Day with a blast from the High School Daze past:

[asin]B00000273G[/asin]

As much a tribute to Chick Corea's Ur-text as to the arrangement, but this recording of "La Fiesta" gives me goosebumps every time.

[escher]