Past Purchases (CLOSED)

[DavidRoss]

Here is the resume of the reviewer:

http://www.usao.edu/~facshaferi/RESUME.HTML

Basically he/she is a nobody teaching a joke-subject (probably to football or basketball players) at a no-name school without any serious scholarships to his/her credit. That makes his/her opinion no more or less credible than any others. Looks like all he/she has done in her life is go sniffing out potential sources of antisemitism in society.

(1) A review of a book is not the book.

(2) Reading a book review in no way substitutes for reading the book.

(3) The purpose of a book review is to summarize and evaluate the book's content, thus to inform a prospective audience about it.

(4) Your slanderous misrepresentation of this particular reviewer does you no credit whatsoever, telling us nothing whatsoever about the book or the reviewer, but revealing quite a lot about you.  (You do this sort of thing frequently--are you incapable of learning to overcome your blinding prejudices?)  Dr. Shafer might not teach at a prestigious university, but her CV per the link you provided indicates that she should be reasonably well qualified to comment on the subject, with over 100 publications, including books published by Loyola University Press, Bowling Green University, and Warner Books.

(5) You insinuate that no one who does not teach at an elite university and specialize in a particularly narrow subject matter is qualified to comment on it.  If we grant that premise, then you are not qualified to comment on anything, are you?

(6) Professor Weiner's qualifications on the subject are much more pertinent than yours or a reviewer's.  A full professor in Germanic Studies at Indiana University, he is a former Mellon Faculty Fellow at Harvard and was educated at Amherst and Stanford (elite enough for you?).  He has been honored with Research Fellowships at Heidelberg and Cambridge.  While pursuing graduate studies at Stanford, he was awarded a Richard Wagner Gedenkstätte Scholarship to Bayreuth and he apprenticed at the Bavarian State Opera.  And the book in question, Richard Wagner and the Anti-Semitic Imagination, was honored to win the Kayden National University Press Book Award in the Humanities for 1996.  (Professor Weiner's CV)

Finally, if you even bothered to look at Professor Shafer's credentials while you were busy sneering at them and her, you would have noted that in addition to courses in World Thought and Culture, she teaches a course in Logic and Critical Thinking.  You would doubtless benefit from taking her course, or one like it.

(Incidentally, the honorable thing to do right now is to apologize for being an incorrigible nitwit, beg forgiveness, and dedicate yourself to reform.  Based on your past performance here, however, I calculate the odds of that as virtually nil.) 

[jlaurson]

Yes, this isn't the place to discuss it, but I am confident that we'll all get transferred to the appropriate place in no time at all. 

As you are probably aware, I disagree vehemently with all of these opinions and with your expression of them as if they were fact and not just your views.

It seems as if your worship of the man prevents you from grasping a more balanced understanding of the nature of his achievement and his character.  Marc Weiner's Richard Wagner and the Anti-Semitic Imagination could help remedy that if you're willing to risk disturbing the comfort of your beliefs.  I think I've referred you to it before.  Here is a brief review.

With all due respect to a.) your opinion and b.) MW's research, Marc Weiner's book is much, much closer to being biased and one-sided than (almost) anything I've ready here from some of the contributors.  (Except perhaps the ad-hominems against him which are silly and embarrassing. That book does not need ad hominems to be... well, I don't want to say "discredited"... but 'put into perspective'.

The tome reminds me, if anything, of the claims that the St.Matthew Passion and the Messiah are virulently anti-semitic. No, actually... it reminded me of Jonah Goldhagen's book. 400 citations, and the three important ones that undermine his entire thesis conveniently missing.  Just to point to one problem (regarding the strained sensationalism that weaves through the book): the very term "Anti-Semitism" wasn't part of the general vocabulary until Treitschke introduced it. It's a clear case where the theory determined the findings and conclusion.

The best sources to figure out what Wagner may have been like (not that that necessarily helps us better understand his time; just like we can't properly understand what it meant in ancient Greece to put unwanted babies out into the mountains to die) are still Wagner's own words. The conclusion of which is left up to each reader... but would in any case not give grounds to such a heated exchange.

After soliciting some comments on the Recordings That You Are Considering  thread from fellow GMGers about which complete set of the Bach Cantatas offered the best value, I was saved from spending several hundred dollars and can now report to be waiting for delivery of this set:

Bach (Artist), Holland Boys Choir (Artist), Leusink (Artist)

The Leusink set was the least expensive and has more works than the Hanoncourt, which was the other one I was seriously considering.  I've been generally pleased with my other Brialliant Classics collections, but after sampling these, I may wish to acquire a few of my favorites by other conductors in individual recordings.

1.) I'm glad the forum was able to be of actual, real green-back saving use to you. (Treat your wife to dinner on what you saved, and you'll still have money left to spend on individual cantata recordings.

2.) You're right... you WILL want to support that set with such recordings... and the same would have been no less true had you gotten the Harnoncourt set.

One of the ones I'd recommend the most is this: http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2005/03/weinen-klagenherreweghes-new-bach.html

... and some of the Koopman re-issues (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2009/05/ich-hatte-viel-bekummernis-bach.html), one of these (http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=140), another BWV 21 (http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=531), 182 (http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=520)...

[George]

For only $18.98 new from amazon.com third party seller blowitoutahere 

[Bulldog]

I'm sorry, but although he's not W. V. Quine, I don't see how he or his subject is a joke, or how anyone not in an Ivy League institution is worthless. Likewise, he has a significantly expansive CV, if nothing world-shattering in terms of content.

I have no personal interest in this exchange of tirades discussion. But I invite some restraint in labelling people.

very well put.  In all this back and forth about Wagner's character, I'd just like to say that it's possible to listen to Wagner's music and leave aside any opinions about his worth as a human being.

[Coopmv]

For only $18.98 new from amazon.com third party seller blowitoutahere 

I got the Richter's WTC on RCA Gold Seal at a fabulous price from the same vendor ...     

[George]

I got the Richter's WTC on RCA Gold Seal at a fabulous price from the same vendor ...     

Yeah, it seemed too good to be true, the other sellers were about twice that price. 

I paid more for my DG double of the late LvB by the pianist. 

[Lilas Pastia]

An excellent set. Great programming and great artistry. Satie couldn't hope for better advocates.

[Coopmv]

Yeah, it seemed too good to be true, the other sellers were about twice that price. 

I paid more for my DG double of the late LvB by the pianist. 

Pricing for many items on Amazon is like the wild west.  One needs to be cautious to avoid being taken for a ride.     

[George]

Pricing for many items on Amazon is like the wild west.  One needs to be cautious to avoid being taken for a ride.     

Very true.   

I had my eye on that set for a few weeks. Today the price dropped to below $19 and I pounced on it! 

[Coopmv]

Very true.   

I had my eye on that set for a few weeks. Today the price dropped to below $19 and I pounced on it! 

Buddy, that was exactly what I did when I ended up paying $20 for that Richter's WTC on RCA Gold Seal ...     

[George]

Buddy, that was exactly what I did when I ended up paying $20 for that Richter's WTC on RCA Gold Seal ...     

Worth remembering for the future! 

[jlaurson]

For only $18.98 new from amazon.com third party seller blowitoutahere 

Whaaaa?? That's almost too little. 
All of the LvB sonatas with Kempff for the price of four Double-Soy-Venti-Moccachinos???

Value and price stand in no relations. At least I know George won't value it any less for having gotten it on the cheap.
And I suppose Kempff no longer needs to support a family. Just sucks if you are a living artist, trying to compete. 

[George]

Whaaaa?? That's almost too little. 

I am very happy, especially because I already owned a third of this cycle and wasn't savoring the idea of rebuying that third again.  Also, this 2008 mastering is just as good as the rare and MUCH more expensive Complete Beethoven Edition mastering.

[ChamberNut]

very well put.  In all this back and forth about Wagner's character, I'd just like to say that it's possible to listen to Wagner's music and leave aside any opinions about his worth as a human being.

Thank you Don.  That's the post of the day.

[DavidRoss]

very well put.  In all this back and forth about Wagner's character, I'd just like to say that it's possible to listen to Wagner's music and leave aside any opinions about his worth as a human being.

Marc Weiner agrees with you:

While Weiner's "cultural archeology" (p. 28) seeks to reconstruct a past culture to show how the works were intended to be received he does not argue that contemporary listeners should therefore reject Wagner's music. In fact he asserts that awareness of Wagner's agenda may permit authentic appreciation of his "breathtakingly beautiful and stirring musical-dramatic accomplishments" (p. 29).

[FideLeo]

An excellent set. Great programming and great artistry. Satie couldn't hope for better advocates.

Yes - entirely agreed with your assessment above. 

[Valentino]

Ah, this Wagner debate...

Consider this:
I will not listen to anything by [insert composer, artist, technician <default = Bernstein, Horowitz, Culshaw>] because he was gay. Yeah. I'll do that from now on. Should keep my mind pure and elevated. Who cares about the flavour of the month political correctness.

[/sarcasm]

Super haul that Kempff/Beethoven, George. I have the set on LP, and I'm sure yours will sound better.

[Harry]

Considered for a while, listen to some samples, and ordered it right away.

[George]

Super haul that Kempff/Beethoven, George. I have the set on LP, and I'm sure yours will sound better.

Thanks! I have read that the LPs and first CD mastering of this set had a glassy quality that many folks have complained about.

[jlaurson]

very well put.  In all this back and forth about Wagner's character, I'd just like to say that it's possible to listen to Wagner's music and leave aside any opinions about his worth as a human being.

I don't know what all the fuss is about, anyhow.


Threat duty:

Look what the cat dragged in:


Mahler, Das Lied von der Erde
Nagano, Gerhaher, Klaus Florian Vogt
Sony 8869 7508 212
(Also listening to that right now. Goodness... I love Gerhaher in Das Lied. I loved him in it live, and it's just as good on CD. So incredibly natural... and Vogt (apart from Kaufmann and maybe Beczala), even if he's dubbed into it to cover patches where he was in bad voice, is one of the three tenors I'd actually *want* to hear in that part, too. [Edit: He falls short of those expectations.] Nagano/Montreal would not be my obvious or first choice, but they are doing really well here. [Edit: He far exceeds my expectations.] Perhaps a new favorite Lied! (I prefer the male voices over tenor/alto, in any case.)


Haydn, Early London Symphonies
Szell, Cleveland
Sony

and one that's not likely to make it out of its wrapping any time soon (if ever):


Bernstein, West Side Story, the new Broadway Cast recording
Broadway people. Who cares.   
Sony