Past Purchases (CLOSED)

[George]

Why not Arrau? Why not, Dave?  
Just read this tempting description quoted on Arkiv:

"Claudio Arrau's famous 1978 traversal of the Chopin Nocturnes was recorded at the Amsterdam Concertgebouw and originally released on LP in Philips' Trésors Classiques series. The performances always were highly rated, and with the possible exception of Ivan Moravec's cycle, they're still front-runners despite their near quarter-century vintage. This latest Philips 50 transfer is remarkable--fresh-sounding and transparent, with no loss of quality at either dynamic or registral extremes. The new remastering also allows you to enjoy the performances more as if you were seated centrally in the Concertgebouw's main stalls, so the bloom and resonance of the hall itself gives Arrau's outstanding playing a tangible sense of place and heightened atmosphere, too. The subtleties and technical refinements of Arrau's playing are both too numerous and too familiar to require specific analysis: you can sample any of the works and find ample evidence of these qualities. However, this set is now even more of a "must have" because of the useful fillers added to Disc 2. Both of these substantial works, the F sharp major Barcarolle Op. 60 and the monumental F minor Fantaisie Op. 49, receive exceptional performances. An essential purchase. [7/10/2001]

--Michael Jameson, ClassicsToday.com"

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?site_id=CTRV&album_id=5503

Thanks for the info, I wasn't aware that there was a big difference, especially because the two-fer with the Impromptus sounds great. What I'd like to know is if the Arrau box set released later that year uses this Philips 50 mastering. Does anyone know?

I found a review here by Jed Distler that speaks to this issue: http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=8099

Still, this isn't clear to me. Jed writes:

"I detect no sonic differences from the aforementioned 1991 "Arrau Edition"
transfers. Note, however, that the Nocturnes, Barcarolle, and Fantasy gain
warmth in the higher frequencies and all around presence in 24-bit transfers
made for the "Philips 50 Great Recordings" series."

Does this mean that those 24 bit transfers are in the box?

[Coopmv]

I only picked up this Philips DUO less than two months ago.  I am quite happy with the SQ of the set ...

[jlaurson]

Still, this isn't clear to me. Jed writes:

"I detect no sonic differences from the aforementioned 1991 "Arrau Edition"
transfers. Note, however, that the Nocturnes, Barcarolle, and Fantasy gain
warmth in the higher frequencies and all around presence in 24-bit transfers
made for the "Philips 50 Great Recordings" series."

Does this mean that those 24 bit transfers are in the box?

1.) Yes, that's actually what he means by that.

2.) Is that (below) the "Arrau Edition"? (And 1991 a typo when it should be 2001...)
Not that I'd really double up on any of these performances (most of which I quite cherish, actually), just for marginal aspects of sound quality... but out of sheer curiosity:
which remasterings are those?


Arrau, Chopin

Edit: Evidently I'm confused. This is not the Arrau Box set later this year (obviously) that George talked about ... but it's the one Distler writes about that George quoted in the context of the/a to-be-issued Arrau set??

[George]

1.) Yes, that's actually what he means by that.

I wonder if it is, let me explain. In Distler's review, he refers to the Arrau Edition (released in 1991) and the reviewed Chopin set (2001) these two sets cover almost identical repertoire. There's a third release of the Nocturnes that he says has a superior mastering, the one from the 50 Great Recordings series.

That's why when he says that he detects no sound difference between the 1991 and 2001 sets, I think that the superior mastering of the Nocturnes is not in there.

2.) Is that (below) the "Arrau Edition"? (And 1991 a typo when it should be 2001...)
Not that I'd really double up on any of these performances (most of which I quite cherish, actually), just for marginal aspects of sound quality... but out of sheer curiosity:
which remasterings are those?

No, that's the later 7CD version issued in 2001, the Arrau Edition was released in 1991. As for the mastering, again, Distler hears no difference. But he then goes on to say that the 50 Great Recordings issue has better sound. Since the 50 Great was issued in 2001 prior to the release of the 7CD set, I would think that the 7CD set would include the 50 Great mastering. From his review though, it is unclear, at least to me.  

[jlaurson]

I wonder if it is, let me explain. In Distler's review, he refers to the Arrau Edition (released in 1991) and the reviewed Chopin set (2001) these two sets cover almost identical repertoire. There's a third release of the Nocturnes that he says has a superior mastering, the one from the 50 Great Recordings series.

That's why when he says that he detects no sound difference between the 1991 and 2001 sets, I think that the superior mastering of the Nocturnes is not in there.

Nah... it's a matter of reading bad review-English _A LOT_. And Distler means what I say he does... by way of convoluted brevity. And the key word is "for". Made "for" the Philips 50 GR implies: ...but also (or "and now")  included here (as well). Believe me. I write bad English _a lot_, myself. I can read the code.   The recordings he hears no difference are those that were not in the Philips 50 GR and made it--presumably directly--from the '91 Edition into the 2001 Edition.

[George]

Nah... it's a matter of reading bad review-English _A LOT_. And Distler means what I say he does... by way of convoluted brevity. And the key word is "for". Made "for" the Philips 50 GR implies: ...but also (or "and now")  included here (as well). Believe me. I write bad English _a lot_, myself. I can read the code.   The recordings he hears no difference are those that were not in the Philips 50 GR and made it--presumably directly--from the '91 Edition into the 2001 Edition.

I see what you mean, thanks. Why didn't he just say:

"I detect no sonic differences from the aforementioned 1991 "Arrau Edition" transfers, with three exceptions. The Nocturnes, Barcarolle, and Fantasy now gain warmth in the higher frequencies and all around presence in 24-bit transfers made for the "Philips 50 Great Recordings" series."

[jlaurson]

I see what you mean, thanks. Why didn't he just say:

"I detect no sonic differences from the aforementioned 1991 "Arrau Edition" transfers, with three exceptions. The Nocturnes, Barcarolle, and Fantasy now gain warmth in the higher frequencies and all around presence in 24-bit transfers made for the "Philips 50 Great Recordings" series."

If reviewers actually wrote what they thought, then everybody could read them. Don't be silly. Obfuscation is the name of the game. Adds to the mystique of impenetrable thought on a subject 70% subjective. 

[George]

If reviewers actually wrote what they thought, then everybody could read them. Don't be silly. Obfuscation is the name of the game. Adds to the mystique of impenetrable thought on a subject 70% subjective.  

So you'd bet good money that the "50 Great Recordings" mastering is in there, then?

[jlaurson]

So you'd bet good money that they are in there, then?

I'm perfectly certain. (I haven't got my set around to confirm in the liner notes, but I'd do that for your assurance, not mine. For myself, I know what Distler meant. So at the very least I can say: He states they are in there.)

[George]

I'm perfectly certain. (I haven't got my set around to confirm in the liner notes, but I'd do that for your assurance, not mine. For myself, I know what Distler meant. So at the very least I can say: He states they are in there.)

OK, cool.

If you could confirm in the liner notes that would be great! 

[George]

After seeing this for $126 at amazon and thinking I had missed the boat, I luckily found it for under $40 new at archiv. No, Stuart and Jay, it's not a CD-R. 



More info

[Coopmv]

Just ordered the following CD's at Amazon for a change ...







I am actually excited about the Boismortier's recording since this will be the first CD of this French baroque composer in my collection.  This Chopin Nocturnes will be verions #9 for me.

[George]

[Bogey]

Great set!  I believe Todd recommended this one.

[George]

Great set!  I believe Todd recommended this one.

Yes, I found some positive comments by him in the archives of the old GMG. Do you have it Bill? Can you tell me how much of the set is mono and how much in stereo?

[Bogey]

Yes, I found some positive comments by him in the archives of the old GMG. Do you have it Bill? Can you tell me how much of the set is mono and how much in stereo?

Yes, I am lucky enough to have the set.  All is mono save:

Brahms
Four Ballads Op. 10
Piano Sonata No. 3, Op. 5
Scherzo , Op. 4

So, probably  a bit more than 1 discs worth of the 5 is in stereo I believe.  Liner notes are well laid out for info.  I will be shocked if you do not enjoy the set.

[George]

Yes, I am lucky enough to have the set.  All is mono save:

Brahms
Four Ballads Op. 10
Piano Sonata No. 3, Op. 5
Scherzo , Op. 4

So, probably  a bit more than 1 discs worth of the 5 is in stereo I believe.  Liner notes are well laid out for info.  I will be shocked if you do not enjoy the set.

Thanks Bill! I was certain that the LvB was stereo as well. 

[Bogey]

Thanks Bill! I was certain that the LvB was stereo as well. 

Those are on disc 5 and were recoded in London in Decca Studios May 23, 1955 (Decca LW5212) and are listed as mono recordings.  Are these the same as your mono set or are they another set of recordings from Wilhelm?

"Moonlight"
"Pathétique"
"Appassionata"
"Für Elise"
Bagatelle WoO 52

[George]

Those are on disc 5 and were recoded in London in Decca Studios May 23, 1955 (Decca LW5212) and are listed as mono recordings.  Are these the same as your mono set or are they another set of recordings from Wilhelm?

"Moonlight"
"Pathétique"
"Appassionata"
"Für Elise"
Bagatelle WoO 52

Another set actually, not complete, just these works I believe. My understanding is that the reason for those sonata recordings was to rush out a stereo recording of the popular works once stereo recording became possible. This info came from Jens, perhaps he'll be along soon to clarify.   

[jwinter]

Just ordered the following CD's at Amazon for a change ...



This Chopin Nocturnes will be verions #9 for me.

That's an interesting set of Nocturnes.  It's a very unromantic approach -- the sound is clean, the tempos are quite regular, and the emphasis is on the music's structure and balance -- all in all a very "classical" sounding performance.  Very different from someone like Arrau or Moravec, and at first I wasn't sure if I liked it, but it grew on me after multiple listenings.  A while ago I picked up his later complete Chopin (these are earlier recordings) -- the Nocturnes there were a bit more conventional, but still excellent IMO.  Personally I think Ohlsson's Chopin is rather underrated, I like him.