Past Purchases (CLOSED)

[Mirror Image]

This one landed today:



Oh, I'm going to be listening to a lot of Liszt.

That's too much Liszt.

[Mirror Image]

Yes, I like Bluebeard and the Janacek operas too. I remember not having heard of Janacek before and then watching Jenufa at the opera: I was so excited and fell in love with him instantly. I went to that production several times again :-)

You don't like Berg? 

[Brian]

You don't like Berg? 

Hey, he's not alone. I find Wozzeck quite interesting but don't listen to Berg for pleasure.

[Florestan]

Hey, he's not alone. I find Wozzeck quite interesting but don't listen to Berg for pleasure.

Now I'm at a loss. If a certain music doesn't give you pleasure, what's the point of listening to it? 

[Mirror Image]

Hey, he's not alone. I find Wozzeck quite interesting but don't listen to Berg for pleasure.

I would be curious how much Berg you've heard and how open-minded you were when listening to the music? When I heard Berg's Violin Concerto, my mind was blown. I think I listened to Anne Sophie Mutter's performance about 11 times in a row. It was just that good. You seem pretty conservative in your listening patterns, Brian.

[jlaurson]

Hey, he's not alone. I find Wozzeck quite interesting but don't listen to Berg for pleasure.

Most people who listen to classical music don't like Berg. There's no reason (for others, not you, Brian) to pretend to be astonished.
Most people who listen to Berg do it because they reckon it is valuable... but wouldn't call it pleasure.
Accepting that, and doing that, is a fine way to eventually loving Berg (or not).
No point in pretending everyone gets (or should get) Berg or Webern upon first hearing... or that it's remotely reasonable to suspect that anyone upon hearing even the VC for the first time would immediately find this to be easily lovable music. I feel like we're having the obnoxious Wagner discussion all over again.
Remember your roots, people... and if they are considerably out of the mainstream experience, make allowances for that. That--not  'getting' Berg--is, ultimately, what intelligence is about.

[Mirror Image]

Most people who listen to Berg do it because they reckon it is valuable... but wouldn't call it pleasure.

I listen to Berg for pleasure. I love the music itself, the way it sounds, the raw emotion, and I love the way he approached the 12-tone system of composition. There are actual people who love Berg and listen to him for pleasure. I'm one of them. All I'm inquiring about to Brian is what he has heard and whether he kept an open-mind when listening to the music.

[mc ukrneal]

Most people who listen to classical music don't like Berg. There's no reason (for others, not you, Brian) to pretend to be astonished.
Most people who listen to Berg do it because they reckon it is valuable... but wouldn't call it pleasure.
Accepting that, and doing that, is a fine way to eventually loving Berg (or not).
No point in pretending everyone gets (or should get) Berg or Webern upon first hearing... or that it's remotely reasonable to suspect that anyone upon hearing even the VC for the first time would immediately find this to be easily lovable music. I feel like we're having the obnoxious Wagner discussion all over again.
Remember your roots, people... and if they are considerably out of the mainstream experience, make allowances for that. That--not  'getting' Berg--is, ultimately, what intelligence is about.

A small addition - one can 'get' Berg, but still not enjoy or like the music.

[mc ukrneal]

I listen to Berg for pleasure. I love the music itself, the way it sounds, the raw emotion, and I love the way he approached the 12-tone system of composition. There are actual people who love Berg and listen to him for pleasure. I'm one of them. All I'm inquiring about to Brian is what he has heard and whether he kept an open-mind when listening to the music.

I'm glad you like him. I had to study him in college for an opera course, and his was the only opera (Wozzeck) that I disliked, though I felt I had a much better understanding of what he was doing and how he was doing it by the time I was done with him. The music, like many in the same vein, does not connect with me. The problem for me is the lack of melodies and the dischord of the ones that are there. But I came to a certain level of appreciation that prevents me from dismissing him outright as many do.

[Scarpia]

A small addition - one can 'get' Berg, but still not enjoy or like the music.

I really enjoy Berg's Chamber Concerto.  I have several recordings of the violin concerto rattling around in my collection but haven't listened to the piece in ages.  Wozzeck, I've listened to fairly recently and I will say I have more respect than love for it, so far.

[jlaurson]

I really enjoy Berg's Chamber Concerto.  I have several recordings of the violin concerto rattling around in my collection but haven't listened to the piece in ages.  Wozzeck, I've listened to fairly recently and I will say I have more respect than love for it, so far.

Berg's operas are really best received in absolutely riveting productions. Munich's current Wozzeck is one such production. Not sold out at the premiere (a shocking rarity for Munich), it got such great reviews (rightly; including this one: http://www.operatoday.com/content/2008/11/wozzeck_munich.php), that the relatively conservative Munich opera crowd flocked to subsequent performances, which were all sold out.

The staging, in a way, 'distracted' from the music... which is to say: succeeded in forming a unit with the music and elucidated the music for what it *is*, namely a characterization of events, protagonists, motivations et al.. People forgot they were listening to music and only thought themselves experiencing something... which they were quite in awe of. Same with movies: Why do people take the most advanced, even a-tonal music in movies and never complain in the least? Because they sense it to be part of the action. That's why good productions of modern (starting with Wagner, if you wish) operas are so important.

Similarly, though less dependent on the staging rather than the riveting singer/actress (P.Petibon) and her colleagues, the Salzburg Lulu was an affair that had me melt away with delight. http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2010/08/notes-from-salzburg-festival-8.html But for all my joy, I was and am always acutely aware that this is very 'difficult' music; I am glad that I can respond to it emotionally and even bask in it... but by gawd, I'd never pretend that it wouldn't have run me out of classical music altogether, if that's all there had been for the vast majority of my classical music-listening life.

One thing that really helped, on this trajectory, was insisting that Berg's VC was a great and wonderful piece of music, well before my ears actually agreed with my brain/attitude/pretentious. 

One piece I do think can, under the right circumstances and when played in that particular way, do much toward conversion towards Berg is his op.1, which is really romantic, wistful Viennese coffee house music... but if one only plays the notes, it sounds like random plink-plonk.

[Brian]

I would be curious how much Berg you've heard and how open-minded you were when listening to the music? When I heard Berg's Violin Concerto, my mind was blown. I think I listened to Anne Sophie Mutter's performance about 11 times in a row. It was just that good. You seem pretty conservative in your listening patterns, Brian.

The Violin Concerto was long just about my least favorite classical piece! On the latest listen, though, it got a slight upgrade; I got on fine with the second movement, I think.

On the whole, I would be inclined to agree that I am more conservative than Berg - if it weren't for the fact that I'd rather be listening to Hartmann. Does it make much sense to like Hartmann that much more than Berg, as a so-called "conservative" (perhaps not really!) listener? Hmm, another question altogether! I'm inclined to say it makes sense, only because Hartmann is simultaneously more furiously against the grain and also more tangibly emotional/volatile.

[mc ukrneal]

Same with movies: Why do people take the most advanced, even a-tonal music in movies and never complain in the least? Because they sense it to be part of the action.

Funny you should mention that. My wife and I were watching a movie this weekend on TV (can't remember what it was off the top of my head). The music got so irritating at one point (atonal and dischordant - strident even) that I muted the sound. To my surprise, my wife turned around and said, 'What did you do that for?" And I laughed, because clearly the music hadn't distracted her in the slightest.

[Scarpia]

The Violin Concerto was long just about my least favorite classical piece! On the latest listen, though, it got a slight upgrade; I got on fine with the second movement, I think.

On the whole, I would be inclined to agree that I am more conservative than Berg - if it weren't for the fact that I'd rather be listening to Hartmann. Does it make much sense to like Hartmann that much more than Berg, as a so-called "conservative" (perhaps not really!) listener? Hmm, another question altogether! I'm inclined to say it makes sense, only because Hartmann is simultaneously more furiously against the grain and also more tangibly emotional/volatile.

You don't have to apologize for not liking the Berg concerto.  Being open minded means you gave it a chance, not that you are forbidden to form a preference. 

Hartmann is hit or miss with me.  The things that have a neo-classical ethos have interested me, the expressive stuff has not resonated with me, so far.

[jlaurson]

The Violin Concerto was long just about my least favorite classical piece! On the latest listen, though, it got a slight upgrade; I got on fine with the second movement, I think.

On the whole, I would be inclined to agree that I am more conservative than Berg - if it weren't for the fact that I'd rather be listening to Hartmann. Does it make much sense to like Hartmann that much more than Berg, as a so-called "conservative" (perhaps not really!) listener? Hmm, another question altogether! I'm inclined to say it makes sense, only because Hartmann is simultaneously more furiously against the grain and also more tangibly emotional/volatile.

A super conservative violinist friend of mine, who never liked the Berg (although that was just about the only dodecaphonic piece he'd agree to agreeing on being a masterpiece), finally got into it after playing enough Civilization IV, where that's one of the two pieces that plays once you've hit "Modern Times".

Exposure, exposure, exposure... and always look for the romantic core within.

And yes, Hartmann is a more conventional composer in some ways... tonal, for starters. A kind of edgy tonalism of which we would have heard much more had it not been for the aesthetic axes shifting post WWII.

If Hartmann is your beens and mash, try (if you haven't, already) Walter Braunfels. Frank Martin. Boris Blacher. Wolfgang Fortner. Karl Holler. Harald Genzmer. And the like.

[Mirror Image]

The Violin Concerto was long just about my least favorite classical piece! On the latest listen, though, it got a slight upgrade; I got on fine with the second movement, I think.

On the whole, I would be inclined to agree that I am more conservative than Berg - if it weren't for the fact that I'd rather be listening to Hartmann. Does it make much sense to like Hartmann that much more than Berg, as a so-called "conservative" (perhaps not really!) listener? Hmm, another question altogether! I'm inclined to say it makes sense, only because Hartmann is simultaneously more furiously against the grain and also more tangibly emotional/volatile.

I understand your viewpoints and respect them. I realize Berg isn't everyone's cup of tea, I was just trying to figure out how you approached the music. For me, Berg is emotionally satisfying on many different levels. I find his ambiguity charming and enjoy the way his music creeps out of the darker corners of the human psyche. He's one of my favorites.

[Mirror Image]

Just bought my first Ring cycle:

[asin]B004FLKV5O[/asin]

[DavidRoss]

Just bought my first Ring cycle:

Out of all the choices available and recommended by knowledgeable fans here, why did you select Barenboim's Ring for your first?

[PaulSC]

Out of all the choices available and recommended by knowledgeable fans here, why did you select Barenboim's Ring for your first?

Perhaps because it's relatively easy to penetrate?

[Mirror Image]

Out of all the choices available and recommended by knowledgeable fans here, why did you select Barenboim's Ring for your first?

I'm not sure. I generally enjoy Barenboim and his cycle got high marks from reviewers. Should I have gone with Solti's? Do you own the Barenboim?