Past Purchases (CLOSED)

[Lilas Pastia]

There are used copies of both the original CD edition and the later "DG Masters" re-release of Giulini's 8th on amazon for not too much money, beginning at $15 or so, so there is no reason not to have it - but there is every reason to have it. In my very personal opinion, probably the greatest document of recorded music I have ever heard. It still astonishes and awes me every time I hear it.

This and the 1988 Karajan were recorded within a few years of each other by DG and feature the WP. Except for the Adagio, timings are almost identical. How do the two compare - or differ? And how does the orchestra sound under each conductor? So far I have heard that Giulini only once, about 20 years ago (lp) at a friend's house. I can't say I recall enough to form an opinion .

[Harry]

gmstudio, (Paul) kindly send me this opera as a gift, for which I am very grateful.

[Harry]

And lest I forget, this one was also in the parcel kindly send by Paul.

[marvinbrown]

gmstudio, (Paul) kindly send me this opera as a gift, for which I am very grateful.

 OH Harry you are in for a treat   my friend!  Without exaggeration this is easily one of the GREATEST operas in the entire operatic repertoire. There isn't one bad note in that whole opera- and don't believe anybody who tells otherwise.  This is Verdi's greatest masterpiece without doubt and I stand by my word on this one!  

 marvin

[Harry]

 OH Harry you are in for a treat   my friend!  Without exaggeration this is easily one of the GREATEST operas in the entire operatic repertoire. There isn't one bad note in that whole opera- and don't believe anybody who tells otherwise.  This is Verdi's greatest masterpiece without doubt and I stand by my word on this one!  

 marvin

Geez, you make me almost wanting to play this right away, but alas I have to cook.....

[M forever]

This and the 1988 Karajan were recorded within a few years of each other by DG and feature the WP. Except for the Adagio, timings are almost identical. How do the two compare - or differ? And how does the orchestra sound under each conductor? So far I have heard that Giulini only once, about 20 years ago (lp) at a friend's house. I can't say I recall enough to form an opinion .

Man, that is really hard to put in words. They are at the same time quite similar in many respects and also very different. Both are very lyrical readings but I would say Giulini's is more intensely "singing" and eloquent and has a strong personal element to it while Karajan's is more esthetically than emotionally driven, a little bit more distanced but not uninvolved. Somehow a little more "objective". That is very hard to put in words. Karajan's last recording of the 8th is rather more personal anyway than a lot of his earlier Bruckner without losing the "grandness". In that he and Giulini were very close to each other in these recordings. Giulini's music making had always been more personal, more intense and urgent. In this recording of the 8th symphony it is simply astonishing how he constantly shapes the music from the first to the last note in a very organic, breathing, singing way, and how the WP follow him and play as one big organism. So the result is music making which is very personal and detailed but also happening on a grander scale at the same time. That's what it also sounds like. The orchestra sounds very big and powerful and very intimate and detailed at the same time. Every note is in a place which makes sense. Nothing is irrelevant, overlooked, or underplayed. Nothing is overdone, but the music making is still very intense. This is as close to "the real thing" as it gets. Whatever "the real thing" is. This is simply music making which opens up views into a higher dimension. Karajan comes fairly close to that in a different, slightly more distanced, more observing than directly involved way, but I personally think the Giulini version is definitely just in a class of its own. I am not sure really I have ever heard music making on record which is quite on the same level as this recording of Bruckner 8 with Giulini. The orchestral plying is fabulous in both versions, no surprise there, I guess, the recorded sound is very good for both versions, too, fortunately the Karajan recordings made in Vienna sound much better than the ones made in Berlin around the same time, but the sound for the Giulini version is still a little warmer and more "natural" and less obviously "engineered".

[Haffner]

gmstudio, (Paul) kindly send me this opera as a gift, for which I am very grateful.

That is quite a great recording, Harry.

[Haffner]

Man, that is really hard to put in words. They are at the same time quite similar in many respects and also very different. Both are very lyrical readings but I would say Giulini's is more intensely "singing" and eloquent and has a strong personal element to it while Karajan's is more esthetically than emotionally driven, a little bit more distanced but not uninvolved. Somehow a little more "objective". That is very hard to put in words. Karajan's last recording of the 8th is rather more personal anyway than a lot of his earlier Bruckner without losing the "grandness". In that he and Giulini were very close to each other in these recordings. Giulini's music making had always been more personal, more intense and urgent. In this recording of the 8th symphony it is simply astonishing how he constantly shapes the music from the first to the last note in a very organic, breathing, singing way, and how the WP follow him and play as one big organism. So the result is music making which is very personal and detailed but also happening on a grander scale at the same time. That's what it also sounds like. The orchestra sounds very big and powerful and very intimate and detailed at the same time. Every note is in a place which makes sense. Nothing is irrelevant, overlooked, or underplayed. Nothing is overdone, but the music making is still very intense. This is as close to "the real thing" as it gets. Whatever "the real thing" is. This is simply music making which opens up views into a higher dimension. Karajan comes fairly close to that in a different, slightly more distanced, more observing than directly involved way, but I personally think the Giulini version is definitely just in a class of its own. I am not sure really I have ever heard music making on record which is quite on the same level as this recording of Bruckner 8 with Giulini. The orchestral plying is fabulous in both versions, no surprise there, I guess, the recorded sound is very good for both versions, too, fortunately the Karajan recordings made in Vienna sound much better than the ones made in Berlin around the same time, but the sound for the Giulini version is still a little warmer and more "natural" and less obviously "engineered".

This is an excellent, thought provoking review, and now I'm really interested in the Giulini. I completely agree about the Karajan.

[Harry]

That is quite a great recording, Harry.

Will let you know, if I think so too, Andy.

[Bogey]

 

Thank you Todd for this rec.

and

[toledobass]

This got tagged on to my order of some poetry by Rene Char and Paul Celan:







Allan

[Lilas Pastia]

Thanks, M, this is exactly the kind of very insightful comment I was looking for. It also confirms what I feel about Karajan's Bruckner 8th. This is one of the great recordings, which is a bit of a surprise considering I've never been fond of his other efforts in that work (the 1958 EMI in particular, which I find obese and insufferably grandiloquent). For some reason this WP 8th has always sounded like one of Karajan's most "personal" interpretations, while at the same time remaining extremely objective.

I put Giulini's WP 7th at the top of the many recorded versions of that work (along with Blomstedt's SD on Denon). I'll definitely try to get this 8th. "Organic, breathing, singing" is exactly how I feel the music should go if it's to be played with slow tempi. That's what I hear in Giulini's Schubert 9th, esp. the Chicago one.

I was reminded again how utterly different the same music can sound under different conductors with a couple more Schubert 9th listenings. The slow introduction under Giulini is like a mini tone poem. Under Karajan (both BPO accounts) it is so severely controlled (in the best sense) that its content appears subjected to its structural role, its function in the whole. In a sense, Karajan's is the more logical interpretation, but I hear more music under Giulini.

[Que]

Just ordered - can't wait! 

Thanks again to fl.traverso and erato for their guidance on this.



Q

[DavidW]

Vivaldi Concertos Pinnock.  Here is some eye candy, enjoy--

[BorisG]

[Kullervo]

[Lilas Pastia]

Do you like it? I've been wondering about this one myself, even though I have all these works (in much older versions).

[FideLeo]

Gamba of a bargain - £2.95! 

[sound67]

Only once in a blue moon do I buy a Rattle disc, but at 15 Euro for the box I thought it isn't too much of a gamble.



Thomas

[BorisG]

Do you like it? I've been wondering about this one myself, even though I have all these works (in much older versions).

This is being shipped.  I finally got around to ordering it after making a mind-note some time ago.

The thinking while listening to a radio broadcast was that this 4th may be the finest I've heard.

I had no experience with Quebec Symphony, Pascal Verrot (Bernstein & Ozawa influence), or Analekta. The playing, attention to detail, and intelligent recorded sound (1993) were good finds. To have all three in a Roussel recording is rare.

"paulb clips" of the other works were accessed at 7digital.com. I could detect no cause for concern in those moments.