Worst Cities on Earth

[Mozart]

And that city would be...?

Tijuana Mexico

[greg]

It's hard to get a clear answer for murder rates for cities...
I read that Cali, Columbia (where my friend is from) has a murder rate of 112 deaths for every 100,000, and that Columbia's murder rate as a whole is 84 for every 100,000 (which is by far the highest, 2nd being El Salvador with 50).
But recently, it seems Venezuela all of a sudden has the highest murder rate for a country....

[DavidRoss]

Tijuana Mexico

Ahh--now I know why your posting style seemed familiar.  Welcome back!

[Mozart]

Ahh--now I know why your posting style seemed familiar.  Welcome back!

I have a style? Thats pretty cool

[Coopmv]

I've never been to Romania, but my impression is that it actually contains many natural beauty spots and picturesque old towns, particularly in Transylvania.

Personally I thought his mention of Gdansk was ludicrous. I spent several days there, and found it fascinating and quite charming, at least the Old Town.

On the other hand, post-communist Europe is indeed dotted with dreary, clapped-out industrial towns.

You should check out China.  60% of its lakes, rivers are heavily polluted.  The cancer rate per capita in China is the highest in the world.  The leadership there is willing to pay the price for extreme modernization ...

[Cato]

You should check out China.  60% of its lakes, rivers are heavily polluted.  The cancer rate per capita in China is the highest in the world.  The leadership there is willing to pay the price for extreme modernization ...

Ask the Ukrainians the price Stalin exacted from them for modernization.  

Under Communism the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact countries were polluted beyond belief: I recall reading declassified briefs from the CIA some years ago that the Russians had dumped nuclear waste and even failed nuclear reactors from submarines into the Arctic.

In Katowice, Poland - according to a German documentary I saw years ago - backyard gardens had vegetables slopping over with e.g. cesium (!) from the pollution of local chemical plants.  Local schools there said as many as a fourth of the children showed some sort of disease related to damage to the nervous system.  Parts of the Workers' Paradise in East Germany resembled a moonscape, due to the ravages of the Communists: these areas are still being cleaned up by the present German government, but with difficulty, because the damage is so great.

See for example: http://www.nytimes.com/1990/09/09/world/new-taint-on-east-german-pollution.html

But now, senior officials at the complex - which produces basic chemicals, aluminum, pesticides, dyes, plastics and hundreds of other products -are saying the region was poisoned willfully in a scheme to raise money for the state.

Pilfering Through 'Fines'

In the decade before the Communist regime's overthrow last year, the officials said, the authorities extracted hundreds of millions of dollars from the complex through ''fines'' for dumping all its highly dangerous residues into the nearby creeks and rivers.

The assessments were little more than a thinly veiled form of exploitation under the byzantine methods of Communist bookkeeping because, the officials said, whenever plant managers asked for money to build antipollution devices, they were overruled.

The charges of the plant officials have gained support from East Germany's new non-Communist Government.

''The State Planning Commission milked the chemical industry like a cow,'' said Fritz Cotta, a longtime executive. ''They wanted the money. They preferred the funds to spend them on other things.''

Certainly free countries polluted themselves ("The solution to pollution is dilution" led to the near death of Lake Erie here in Ohio.).  But people have the right to protest and vote and get things cleaned up! 

Ask the East Germans/Russians/Poles etc. what would have happened back in the good old days if they protested!

[david johnson]

i don't live in cities.

dj

[Coopmv]

Ask the East Germans/Russians/Poles etc. what would have happened back in the good old days if they protested!

Yeah, I heard a joke during the cold war when some Russians were telling some western journalists they had to rights to protest in the Soviet Unions - they could protest in front of the US embassy.

[Lilas Pastia]

Ask the Ukrainians the price Stalin exacted from them for modernization.  

Under Communism the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact countries were polluted beyond belief: I recall reading declassified briefs from the CIA some years ago that the Russians had dumped nuclear waste and even failed nuclear reactors from submarines into the Arctic.

In Katowice, Poland - according to a German documentary I saw years ago - backyard gardens had vegetables slopping over with e.g. cesium (!) from the pollution of local chemical plants.  Local schools there said as many as a fourth of the children showed some sort of disease related to damage to the nervous system.  Parts of the Workers' Paradise in East Germany resembled a moonscape, due to the ravages of the Communists: these areas are still being cleaned up by the present German government, but with difficulty, because the damage is so great.

See for example: http://www.nytimes.com/1990/09/09/world/new-taint-on-east-german-pollution.html

Certainly free countries polluted themselves ("The solution to pollution is dilution" led to the near death of Lake Erie here in Ohio.).  But people have the right to protest and vote and get things cleaned up! 

Ask the East Germans/Russians/Poles etc. what would have happened back in the good old days if they protested!

And what are you trying to prove ? Have the good old days returned without anybody noticing? How about asking Black Americans what would have happened in the 'good old days' if they protested slavery!  .  Did they have the right to vote and protest? No?? How come ?!?

Sorry, but for some obscure reason I have a feeling your argument is inconclusive...

[springrite]

Sorry, but for some obscure reason I have a feeling your argument is inconclusive...

Inconclusive, maybe, but convinient and popular! 

[Coopmv]

i don't live in cities.

dj

Have you read the article "The Death of Suburbs"?   

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

In Katowice, Poland - according to a German documentary I saw years ago - backyard gardens had vegetables slopping over with e.g. cesium (!) from the pollution of local chemical plants.  Local schools there said as many as a fourth of the children showed some sort of disease related to damage to the nervous system.  

I had the interesting experience of changing trains in Katowice back in 1992 (going from Prague to Krakow). I still remember the "chewy" feeling of the air. Krakow itself was horribly polluted until they started to shut down Nowa Huta, the nearby industrial suburb.

(Katowice has a really good orchestra, though.)

Have you read the article "The Death of Suburbs"?   

I don't have to - I already know the suburbs are doomed 

[Florestan]

... as it has of some of the most breathtaking landscapes of all of Europe, and of a series of unspoiled, very beautiful cities as well. This type of superficial verdict on "all of Romania" and indeed much of Eastern Europe, is extremely uninformed, nothing but a superfical, perhaps even malicious, prejudice, and better ignored completely. 

Exactly

[Florestan]

 

Yeah, I heard a joke during the cold war when some Russians were telling some western journalists they had to rights to protest in the Soviet Unions - they could protest in front of the US embassy.

1972. In a bar in Moscow an American and a Russian are having a few drinks.

John to Ivan: You know, US is a free country. If I go in front of the White House and shout "F...k Nixon!", nobody's going to arrest me.

Ivan to John: USSR is a free country, too. If I go to the Red Square and shout "F...k Nixon!", nobody's going to arrest me as well.

[Guido]

I've never been to Africa, Asia or South America, but the least pleasant city I have ever been to was Naples.

[Dr. Dread]

World travelers. I'm jealous.

[Florestan]

I've never been to Africa, Asia or South America, but the least pleasant city I have ever been to was Naples.

Why?

[Cato]

And what are you trying to prove ? Have the good old days returned without anybody noticing? How about asking Black Americans what would have happened in the 'good old days' if they protested slavery!  .  Did they have the right to vote and protest? No?? How come ?!?

Sorry, but for some obscure reason I have a feeling your argument is inconclusive...

I do believe I prove that free people can change things!

Depending on your definition of "good old days," African-Americans would have been in trouble protesting slavery before 1865.

But they had the freedom to protest the restrictions of their rights down south (Jim Crow laws) in the late 1940's and 1950's, freedom which took courage also, I will agree, but no Siberian Death Camp awaited Martin Luther King.

The argument therefore is NOT "inconclusive" and NOT "convenient." 

[Lethevich]

Why?

Maybe

[Florestan]

Maybe

Maybe. When I visited it back in 1999 it was really not that bad. I actually liked the city --- if you can ignore the garbage in the streets (nowadays it's very difficult, admittedly) it shows his past glory and beauty. After all, it was for centuries the capital of The Kingdom of The Two Sicilies and Cervantes called it "the most beautiful city in the world". The surroundings are also charming.

I agree that it is not the best place for those looking a neat, ordered and safe city. But for a lover of the past as myself, it is marvelous.