Where to go next?

[Daedalus]

ChamberNut, me too. I have the ones on Elgar, Sibelius, Bliss, VW, Holst and Rachmaninov. They are great introductions to these composers and brilliantly illustrated, well written and featuring discographies and recommendations for further reading. I don't think that they are in print anymore which is a pity.

Based on what you have said, and also on ChamberNut's recommendation, I have purchased a few of the books in this collection. I found the Vaughan Williams one and also purchased the Mahler and Stravinsky editions as they were at a very good price. Happy reading.  

I'm going to be somewhat predictable in the first instance and - noting that you've made a start on Vaughan Williams who is basically on one side of the divide that you mention - suggest a bit of Elgar, who is, in spirit at least, on the other side. There you have an essentially nineteenth century composer (Elgar) confronted by the run up to the Great War, to compare with RVW a generation later. Elgar's The Spirit of England (a woefully neglected masterpiece) gives one (deeply moving) perspective on the tragedy of WW1; RVW's 3rd symphony gives a very different (and equally moving) response to it. The Elgar/Vaughan Williams pairing drops right into your period of interest and, given your wish to have a kind of theme to get your teeth into, could be what you're looking for. (If you find you hate the RVW you're listening to, of course, then maybe not.)

I'm pleased to say that I'm enjoying the RVW so far. I've spinned a few discs from my new set this evening.

I'm already quite well acquainted with Elgar. I know his Symphony No.1 well and I especially enjoy the Cello Concerto. I don't know the piece that you mention though, so I will be sure to find it and listen to it sometime.

I'm actually very interested in exploring more English composers. I have come to realise how much I have neglected music from my own country. Perhaps this is an avenue to explore, perhaps as I primarily make discoveries within the symphony genre.

Based on your original list, the 3 missing names that immediately leap to mind for me are Bach, Brahms, and (based on what else you like) Bruckner.  

For a start, I'd suggest:

Bach - Well-Tempered Clavier or cello suites (or the violin concerti if you prefer orchestral)
Brahms -- Piano Concerto #1, 1st or 4th symphonies
Bruckner -- 4th, 7th, 8th, or 9th symphonies

If you like the Bach, try some Vivaldi or Handel next.  If you like the Brahms, try some Dvorak or Tchaikovsky.  If you like the Bruckner, buy more Bruckner.  

Hello jwinter , thank you for your post. My original list was really just a list of what I have been listening to lately. I am acquainted with Bach and Brahms, and most of the pieces of theirs that you recommend; not so with Bruckner however. If I am to explore the symphony then I realise that this must change!  

I know most of Handel's famous pieces but I'm do not know Vivaldi very well. I have listened to quite a lot of Dvorak (the Cello concerto is a favourite) but do not know Tchaikovsky well enough. So much still for me to explore!  

Thank you for all replies.

D.

[Elgarian]

I don't know the piece that you mention though, so I will be sure to find it and listen to it sometime.

If you do, then this, by a million miles, is the version to get, and it need cost you very little.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Elgar-Coronation-Ode-Spirit-England/dp/B000000A9N/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1245789797&sr=1-2

(Ignore the Coronation Ode in the first instance.)

[Grazioso]

I'm actually very interested in exploring more English composers. I have come to realise how much I have neglected music from my own country. Perhaps this is an avenue to explore, perhaps as I primarily make discoveries within the symphony genre.

Particularly if you include Britain as a whole, then there's much to choose from: besides the obvious Elgar and RVW symphonies, there's Alwyn, Arnell, Arnold, Bantock, Bax, Bliss, Frankel, Mathias, Rawsthorne, Rubbra, Simpson, Walton, and many others. Look to labels like Hyperion, Chandos, Naxos, and Lyrita for many interesting avenues of exploration.

As for those Naxos sets, I tried Amazon.co.uk to no avail, though Amazon.de sells the British set but is out of stock atm. Search by B000JLSTP8.

Here, fwiw, is the direct link from Arkiv in the US:

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/listPage.jsp?list_id=734

[Opus106]

As for those Naxos sets, I tried Amazon.co.uk to no avail, though Amazon.de sells the British set but is out of stock atm. Search by B000JLSTP8.

Here, fwiw, is the direct link from Arkiv in the US:

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/listPage.jsp?list_id=734

Keep an eye on naxosdirect.ca. You might be able to get a box for two for next to nothing.

[Daedalus]

Particularly if you include Britain as a whole, then there's much to choose from: besides the obvious Elgar and RVW symphonies, there's Alwyn, Arnell, Arnold, Bantock, Bax, Bliss, Frankel, Mathias, Rawsthorne, Rubbra, Simpson, Walton, and many others. Look to labels like Hyperion, Chandos, Naxos, and Lyrita for many interesting avenues of exploration.

As for those Naxos sets, I tried Amazon.co.uk to no avail, though Amazon.de sells the British set but is out of stock atm. Search by B000JLSTP8.

Here, fwiw, is the direct link from Arkiv in the US:

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/listPage.jsp?list_id=734

I tried that catalogue number on the Naxos website and didn't get any returns at all. 

Anyway, I see it on Amazon.com and I think I can buy it there and ship it to UK. I'm very tempted to do so as it does look like it would provide me with ample listening for some time to come. Perhaps an early birthday present from my Mrs Daedalus.

D.

[ChamberNut]

but do not know Tchaikovsky well enough.

Try the Brilliant Classics Tchaikovsky's symphonies set with Philadelphia/New Philharmonia Orchestras with Riccardo Muti conducting.  It was recommended to me and I just LOVE it!

GET SOME BRUCKNER DUDE!!!!! 

[vandermolen]

Based on what you have said, and also on ChamberNut's recommendation, I have purchased a few of the books in this collection. I found the Vaughan Williams one and also purchased the Mahler and Stravinsky editions as they were at a very good price. Happy reading.  

I'm pleased to say that I'm enjoying the RVW so far. I've spinned a few discs from my new set this evening.

I'm already quite well acquainted with Elgar. I know his Symphony No.1 well and I especially enjoy the Cello Concerto. I don't know the piece that you mention though, so I will be sure to find it and listen to it sometime.

I'm actually very interested in exploring more English composers. I have come to realise how much I have neglected music from my own country. Perhaps this is an avenue to explore, perhaps as I primarily make discoveries within the symphony genre.

Hello jwinter , thank you for your post. My original list was really just a list of what I have been listening to lately. I am acquainted with Bach and Brahms, and most of the pieces of theirs that you recommend; not so with Bruckner however. If I am to explore the symphony then I realise that this must change!  

I know most of Handel's famous pieces but I'm do not know Vivaldi very well. I have listened to quite a lot of Dvorak (the Cello concerto is a favourite) but do not know Tchaikovsky well enough. So much still for me to explore!  

Thank you for all replies.

D.

You should also like Moeran's Symphony in G minor - one of my all time favourite works.

[Grazioso]

I tried that catalogue number on the Naxos website and didn't get any returns at all.  

Anyway, I see it on Amazon.com and I think I can buy it there and ship it to UK. I'm very tempted to do so as it does look like it would provide me with ample listening for some time to come. Perhaps an early birthday present from my Mrs Daedalus.

D.

Sorry I wasn't clear: that catalogue number is for the various Amazon sites alone. You can buy from the different international Amazon sites and have them ship to other countries.

That English Symphonies set includes excellent Bax and RVW cycles, among other delights.

[jochanaan]

Try the Brilliant Classics Tchaikovsky's symphonies set with Philadelphia/New Philharmonia Orchestras with Riccardo Muti conducting.  It was recommended to me and I just LOVE it!

Second that.  Muti is one of the greatest Tchaikovsky conductors, even better than some Russians.  He does fine with Stravinsky too, although his first Rite of Spring with the Philadelphia Orchestra is a little ragged.

[ChamberNut]

Muti is one of the greatest Tchaikovsky conductors, even better than some Russians. 

Which just goes to show you that a conductor, orchestra, chamber ensemble, soloist et al need not be of the same nationality as the composer to "get it right".

[eyeresist]

Daedalus, which Vaughan Williams set did you buy? I recommend either Previn or Handley. Either way, his oeuvre offers a great symphonic "journey", from Edwardian splendour (but avoid the Sea Symphony if you're not a choral fan), through the more modern(ish) "war symphonies" (4-6), and then the last, slightly strange, very individual works. Each symphony is different, each is defiantly melodic, and deep enough to stand much relistening.

You mentioned you know Brahms, but do you know his early Serenades? They're often overlooked, but, together with his piano concertos, they constitute an essential part of his symphonic output (Mackerras on Telarc is ideal).

Sibelius! For some reason he's often an afterthought, but most here would agree that he is essential - especially if, as you say, the Late Romantic symphony is your thing! Most complete sets are at least acceptable; the Berglund/EMI box is great value.

Finally, Rachmaninov doesn't get a lot of respect, but if you pick up the 3 disc set conducted by Ashkenazy (on Decca/London), you won't regret it, as he presents these very Russian, very Romantic symphonies in the best possible light, with exciting performances and great sound.

[DavidRoss]

Daedalus, which Vaughan Williams set did you buy? I recommend either Previn or Handley. Either way, his oeuvre offers a great symphonic "journey", from Edwardian splendour (but avoid the Sea Symphony if you're not a choral fan), through the more modern(ish) "war symphonies" (4-6), and then the last, slightly strange, very individual works. Each symphony is different, each is defiantly melodic, and deep enough to stand much relistening.

You mentioned you know Brahms, but do you know his early Serenades? They're often overlooked, but, together with his piano concertos, they constitute an essential part of his symphonic output (Mackerras on Telarc is ideal).

Sibelius! For some reason he's often an afterthought, but most here would agree that he is essential - especially if, as you say, the Late Romantic symphony is your thing! Most complete sets are at least acceptable; the Berglund/EMI box is great value.

Finally, Rachmaninov doesn't get a lot of respect, but if you pick up the 3 disc set conducted by Ashkenazy (on Decca/London), you won't regret it, as he presents these very Russian, very Romantic symphonies in the best possible light, with exciting performances and great sound.

I heartily second all of these recommendations, especially the first three.

[Daedalus]

Daedalus, which Vaughan Williams set did you buy? I recommend either Previn or Handley.

I got the Handley set after checking the reviews (and seeing the price!)

Either way, his oeuvre offers a great symphonic "journey", from Edwardian splendour (but avoid the Sea Symphony if you're not a choral fan), through the more modern(ish) "war symphonies" (4-6), and then the last, slightly strange, very individual works. Each symphony is different, each is defiantly melodic, and deep enough to stand much relistening.

I started with no.4. Would it perhaps be better to start at the beginning and work my way through?

You mentioned you know Brahms, but do you know his early Serenades? They're often overlooked, but, together with his piano concertos, they constitute an essential part of his symphonic output (Mackerras on Telarc is ideal).

No, I don't know them. Will add them to my list and check them out soon.

Sibelius! For some reason he's often an afterthought, but most here would agree that he is essential - especially if, as you say, the Late Romantic symphony is your thing! Most complete sets are at least acceptable; the Berglund/EMI box is great value.

I have a complete Sibelius set. It was cheaper to buy the complete set than to buy one or two of the symphonies! So I know quite a few of the symphonies, no.5 being a favourite and I also really like the Violin Concerto.

Finally, Rachmaninov doesn't get a lot of respect, but if you pick up the 3 disc set conducted by Ashkenazy (on Decca/London), you won't regret it, as he presents these very Russian, very Romantic symphonies in the best possible light, with exciting performances and great sound.

I only really know Rachmaninov's piano works. I did listen to his Symphony no.1 once but it didn't leave a lasting impression and I only had it on a week's loan from the library.

Thanks for the suggestions.

D.

[jochanaan]

...I did listen to his Symphony no.1 once but it didn't leave a lasting impression and I only had it on a week's loan from the library.

Rach 1 is as notable for its story as for its music.  This was the work that nearly ended Rachmaninoff's composing career; apparently the first performance was so bad that its depressive composer fell into despair, only recovering his confidence three years later via hypnosis sessions that resulted in the Second Piano Concerto.  Until after Rachmaninoff's death it was thought that he had destroyed all copies, but (I believe in the 1940s) a set of orchestral parts was discovered in the then Soviet Union.  Try the 1970s Previn/LSO recording; Previn rightly reads it as a tragic masterpiece.

My favorite of the Rachmaninoff symphonies is #3; much more tightly constructed than his first two, and more intense than the popular Second.  Also, do not neglect his Symphonic Dances.

[DavidRoss]

I only really know Rachmaninov's piano works. I did listen to his Symphony no.1 once but it didn't leave a lasting impression and I only had it on a week's loan from the library.

The symphonies don't compare favorably with his best orchestral pieces, the PC's, the Symphonic Dances Jo recommends, and The Isle of the Dead.  Before digging into them I'd suggest that the symphonies of Prokofiev, Bax, Bruckner, and Nielsen are likely to prove more rewarding among those recommended thus far.

[schweitzeralan]

Hello all,

I would like to hear your opinions regarding where I should go next on my classical music adventure.

My listening during the last year has been largely undirected and random. I've just been picking up pieces here and there, listening to lots of different music, from Mozart, Beethoven, Mahler, Sibelius, Debussy, Stravinsky, Schoenberg and Shostakovich. As this list suggests, I am still very much at the beginning of my classical music adventure.

While I have enjoyed jumping between composers and genres, as well as catching up with the more 'mainstream' and famous works that were missing from my listening CV, I have missed having a direction or pattern to my musical journey.

A couple of years ago, I thoroughly enjoyed working my way through the Mahler symphonies, giving each one many repeated listens until I was ready to 'move on' to the next. I read Mahler biographies and letters alongside his music as well as non-technical, abstract writing about his music. This kind of 'study' (I use inverted commas because I was studying on a purely aesthetic, abstract and historical/biographical level as opposed to musical study) was extremely rewarding. I felt as though I came to know (or perhaps apprehend is a more suitable word) a little something about Mahler the man and Mahler the artist while journeying through his symphonies. I also found myself enjoying reading about the history and the wider cultural context.

What I am trying to say (yes, this rambling post does have a point  ) is that I very much enjoyed becoming absorbed in one composer's works like this and I am looking for a similar experience in my listening again. I haven't done this with any composer other than Mahler. So the question, then, is where to go next? I was hoping for more enlightened and knowledgeable people to make some recommendations.  

The period of history which particularly excites me is the period around the fin de siècle and the early 20th Century. I am fascinated by the kinds of questions that were being asked both intellectually and artistically during this period (the kind of adumbration of modernism to come), especially in literature which is my main passion in life. Unfortunately, I am not as knowledgeable in music as I am in literature, so I hope that some of you will be able to make some interesting recommendations about where to go next.

Thanks in advance to anyone who answers my cry for help,
D.

P.S. Forgot to add that any recommendations of pieces to start with and reading to go alongside the listening would also be welcomed.

Are you famliar with Vitizslav Novak? ("The Eternal Longing"; "The Storm"); or perhaps Joseph Suk (Asrael Symphony)? Just two of the many early 20th century composers.  Other posters, I'm sure, have informed you on the many  excellent composers and works derivative of this time period.

[DavidW]

If you like like pre-WWII music, try Webern and Bartok.  They triumph over post-Wagnerian and neoromantic wubba wubba, and easily surpass most of their contemporaries for deep, moving music free of romantic excess.

[Superhorn]

  How  about  the  music  of  Hector  Berlioz ?  He's  one  of  the  greatest  of  French  composers,  and  one  of  a  kind.
His  music  is  passionate,  fantastically  colorful  and  wildly  imaginative.
Try  the  Symphonie  Fantastique,  Harold in  italy,  the  Requiem,  Romeo&Juliette, the  Te  Deum,  The  Damnation  of  Faust,  The  Childhood  of  Christ, and  the  shorter  orchestral  overtures  such as  Roman Carnival,
The  Corsaire etc.  You  can't  go  wrong  with  the  recordings  by  Sir  Colin  Davis,  or  Charles  Munch.
  Dvorak  is  also  a  wonderful  composer,  and  there's  so  much  more  to  his  music  than  the  familiar  New  World,  7th  and  8th  symphonies ,the  Slavonic  Dances  and  the  Cello  concerto.  Music  doesn't  get  more  melodious  than  Dvorak,  and  you  should  also  try  his  first  six  symphonies,  the  magnificent  and  sadly  neglected  Requiem, the  symphonic  poems  based  on  Czech  fairy  tales, the  Symphonic  variations for  orchestra,  the  violin  concerto,  the  one  for  piano, the  oratorio  The  Spectre's Bride, the  four  Slavonic  Rhapsodies(not to  be  confused  with  the  Slav9onic  Dances), and  other  orchestral  works,  plus  his  string  quartets  and  other  chamber  music.  It's  hard  to find  a  dud  among  Dvorak's  works! 
   Smetana's  Ma  Vlast (My  Fatherland)  from  which  the  famous  Moldau  comes, is  a  magnificent  cycle  of  six  tone  poems  based  on  Czech  history, folklore  and  geography. 
  Leos  Janacek  is  another  great  Czech  composer,  and  a highly  original  and  quirky  one.  Try  his  Sinfonietta,  the  symphonic  poem  Taras  Bulba,based  on  the  Gogol  story,  the  thrilling  Glagolitic  Mass,  a  setting  of  the  Mass in  Church  Slavonic  rather  than  Latin, his  two  string  quartets, for  starters,  and  the orchestral  suites  to  his  operas.
  Albert  Roussel  was  a  contemporary  of  Ravel  and  Debussy,  but  his  music  is  vastly  different  from  theirs,  and  sadly  neglected.  Try  his  four  symphonies, the  music  to  the  ballets  Bacchus&Ariane,  and  the  Spider's  Feast for  starters.
Paul  Dukas  wrote  more  than  the  famous  Sorceror's  Apprentice,  but  unfortunately  hje  destroyed  much  of  his  music  out  of  dissatisfaction  with  it. But  theymphony  in  C,  his  only  one,  is  splendid.
  If  you  enjoy  the  music  of  Borodin  and  Rimsky-Korsakov,  you  will  also  find  the  music  of  Mily  Balakirev  very  appealing. Try  his  sadly  neglected  symphony  no  1  in C.
  These are just  a  few  randon  recommendations.

[techniquest]

There are some great recommendations here! Early on someone suggested getting into Prokofiev and I would wholeheartedly agree. There is so much variation in musical genre and style; as introductions try symphonies 5 & 6, ballet Romeo & Juliet and violin concerto no.1. Then listen to 'Alexander Nevsky' and the 'Scythian Suite'.
For Rachmaninov orchestral music, I would definitely recommend the 'Symphonic Dances' over any of the symphonies.
While we are considering Soviet music, try Khachaturians Piano Concerto - it used to be quite popular but has fallen from favour, as has almost all Khachaturian lately.
Now that youhave heard some Vaughan Williams, do try some Walton especially Symphony No.1 and the oratorio 'Belshazzars Feast'. Also, while on the English music theme, try some Malcolm Arnold - I'd recommend symphony No.5 as a great starting point along with the Concerto for 2 Pianos (3 hands), the Tam-o-Shanter overture and English Dances. Of course there is also Holst's 'The Planets' - popular, but nonetheless superb.
I absolutely agree with 'Superhorn' who suggests Janacek's 'Sinfonietta' - a wonderful piece, highly recommended. Others have mentioned Ravel, and I would suggest that you bypass the famous 'Bolero' and go instead for the superb 'La Valse', 'Daphnis et Chloe' and the Piano Concerto in G.
Good luck in your venture - there is so much wonderful music out there.

[drogulus]

My Vaughan Williams order arrived this morning. I am currently listening to Symphony No. 4, picked at random from the set I have bought.

Can anyone recommend any good biographical and/or critical literature to go alongside my listening?


D.

     

     This may be what you're looking for. It's too technical for me but you might appreciate it.