Mahler's 8th - Do you like it?

[Valentino]

The Solti recording is staring at me, saying "why don't we play?". I dunno I say. I've been Wagnered.

Undecided, alas.

[Daedalus]

I really enjoy Mahler's 8th. Probably the hardest of Mahler's symphonies for me to appreciate at first.

The first movement has some huge climaxes and great moments. One of my favourites is the children's choir singing 'accende lumen sensibus', and a massive unison cry from the mixed choirs. Also the 'Amorem cordibus' chant with all of the choirs joining in at once and singing over each other in a chaotic wave of voices.

The second movement is quite thrilling to me in a dramatic sense. It's full of tension. A magical opening. So many of the same ideas and rhythms taken up from the first movement. I think the orchestration speaks for itself and you barely need to know the words as Mahler tells so much of the tale with the music, although it adds to the experience to listen with the text in front of you (and I certainly prefer it).

In terms of the 'disparate parts' that someone mentioned earlier on this thread, I think Mahler actually uses the music to show the relationship he intends between them. Listen to the work a few times and notice where the different motifs and themes link together in terms of the text. If you do this, I think you can see the ideas at work and what it was that Mahler was attempting to communicate by juxtaposing the two texts.

Anyway, a firm yes from me.

D.

[Daedalus]

I should add that it is an incredible experience to see it performed live.

I saw it with Mrs Daedalus last year at St Paul's Cathedral in London. The way the voices and the music reverberated around the cathedral was incredible and the sounds hit you wave after wave and throw you off balance, if you'll excuse the metaphor. It was a very special experience to see it performed there.

D.

[DavidRoss]

I never really cared for it but tried to like it with Bernstein, Kubelik, Chailly, Boulez as I acquired their cycles.  (Not sure I've ever listened to Bertini's.)  Even though there were elements I admired, I never quite was able to really like it until I heard Nagano's.  (See Jim Lovensheimer's review in Opera Today here.)  I listened to that one three times within the first week after getting it, and liked it more each time.  Since then, the only other recording I've acquired (and heard) has been Sinopoli's with the Philharmonia, and I like that well enough, too, though it's more overtly dramatic than Nagano's mystical approach.  The fact is that I'm just not fond of the bombastic first part, and it takes an awful lot of vocal and orchestral beauty to seduce me into overcoming my innate revulsion.

No doubt I'll be acquiring the MTT/SFS recording after its release, and following Jens's strong rec I just ordered a copy of Ozawa's Tanglewood 8th.  When the latter comes I'll give it a fair hearing, maybe in comparison with Nagano & Sinopoli (&?).  Will I ever really love it?  Who knows?  For now, loving just parts of it is good enough.

[bhodges]

If it's not presumptuous (or even if it is): Here's a collection of pieces on Mahler's 8th:


Live Recordings of Mahler's Eighth

Mahler's 8th at the Tyrolean Festival 2008

Glory on the Home Stretch: Mahler's 8th at the Kennedy Center

Alles Vergängliche: Ozawa's Mahler Eighth

and an unedited bit from my upcoming essay on recordings of the 8th, if WETA does indeed get Mahler-Month under way this summer:

Jens, thanks for all the articles, which I'll look forward to reading. 

And I like this sentence very much: "Nothing could be more harmful to a work that must shimmer, hover, only evoke, never proclaim."  IMHO the first movement can be very successful done propulsively, leading to its breathless conclusion.  The second movement, however, really needs to sort of sneak into your consciousness very gradually and gently--quite a different approach. This is probably why I don't quite respond to Solti; he pushes the second movement a little too much, whereas when I heard it recently with Boulez (with Staatskapelle Berlin), he almost seemed to get slower in the final pages.

--Bruce

[ChamberNut]

I just find there is too much singing going on.  Even most Masses/Requiems have an orchestral intro or interlude of some sort.  I wish there were more orchestral only moments in Mahler's 8th.

[greg]

I just find there is too much singing going on.  Even most Masses/Requiems have an orchestral intro or interlude of some sort.  I wish there were more orchestral only moments in Mahler's 8th.

Exactly.

[ChamberNut]

Exactly.

Then God Almighty, please make it happen! 

[ChamberNut]

Has anyone recorded an orchestral version only, a la Ring Without Words?  

[Fëanor]

Alright, I'm an unsophisticated listener and I've heard the 8th at most 4 times, most recently this evening, but I'm not very impressed.  Maybe understanding German would help.

That I can recall, I haven't even heard all of Mahler's symphonies: 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, and 9th for sure though.  Of these I've like the 5th best perhaps, and the 1st has it's moments.  Overall Mahler's symphonies just strike me as long, jumbled, derivitive hodge-podges, but I'll listen to them all again from time to time.  I'm not fond of the Romantic era in general; (Schumann, Bruckner  )

[imperfection]

Alright, I'm an unsophisticated listener and I've heard the 8th at most 4 times, most recently this evening, but I'm not very impressed.  Maybe understanding German would help.

That I can recall, I haven't even heard all of Mahler's symphonies: 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, and 9th for sure though.  Of these I've like the 5th best perhaps, and the 1st has it's moments.  Overall Mahler's symphonies just strike me as long, jumbled, derivitive hodge-podges, but I'll listen to them all again from time to time.  I'm not fond of the Romantic era in general; (Schumann, Bruckner  )

Coming from someone who puts DSCH up as his avatar...

[Fëanor]

Coming from someone who puts DSCH up as his avatar...

If you consider Shostakovich a Romantic, then I make an exception. However, unburden by knowledge or concern for muscial technicalities, I assert that DSCH's sensibility is not that of the Romantics.

More importantly Shostakovich' symphonies have a coherence and focus that I just don't perceive in Mahler.  The former is a great composer, the latter maybe not so much.

[Wanderer]

In terms of the 'disparate parts' that someone mentioned earlier on this thread, I think Mahler actually uses the music to show the relationship he intends between them. Listen to the work a few times and notice where the different motifs and themes link together in terms of the text. If you do this, I think you can see the ideas at work and what it was that Mahler was attempting to communicate by juxtaposing the two texts.

That would be me and I agree with your elaboration; that's why the actual quote is "seemingly disparate parts". 

[Wanderer]

Overall Mahler's symphonies just strike me as long, jumbled, derivitive hodge-podges, but I'll listen to them all again from time to time.  I'm not fond of the Romantic era in general; (Schumann, Bruckner  )

Then I'm afraid you won't be able to warm up to Mahler if you don't at some point develop a liking for the so-called romantic era. However, the route you propose is the recommended path to do so.

[jwinter]

I don't really like it since I have no idea what they are singing about and following the text is too much work.

Actually, I can relate to that.  Seeing a performance on DVD really helps, as following subtitles on screen is a lot easier than dealing with a libretto.  Still, the 8th is certainly my least favorite of Mahler's symphonies -- but then big choral music is generally not my favorite genre (other than settings of the Latin mass, where the text is so simple that one can deal with it in terms of sheer sound).

[Bunny]

Mahler's 8th is a symphony best appreciated live, and make sure there is a good amount of space between you and the orchestra. The symphony is, in a word, overwhelming!  It is an experience that cannot be reproduced by listening to a recording no matter how excellent your audio equipment. You need to be there to see the stage filled and overflowing with singers and musicians so that you can be completely engulfed by the sound. It is the one piece of music that makes the audience insignificant compared to the music makers.   

The voices of the singers are instruments in Mahler's expanded orchestra; their sound is more important than the texts.  They must first be appreciated aurally, and only then can the texts they are singing be absorbed as an extra layer of meaning.   

[PerfectWagnerite]

Mahler's 8th is a symphony best appreciated live, and make sure there is a good amount of space between you and the orchestra.

Mahler happens to be one of those composers whom hearing his work live does not enhance my appreciation of the work. Maybe recordings are not perfect but I just prefer them to live performance. At times I just find the works too long to sit through in one sitting. With a cd you can listen to movements at a time and digest the music more.

Mahler 8th is not like Requiems and Masses. In Requiems and Masses the text is pretty much the same. In Mahler's 8th if you don't know what they are singing about you start to zone out real quick.

[Keemun]

I attempted to listen to Mahler's 8th yesterday, but had to stop around 18 minutes from the end because I couldn't take any more singing from the sopranos/mezzo-sopranos.  I agree with ChamberNut, there is simply too much singing in this symphony.  I'd like to change my vote to "No" (even though changing votes is not allowed). 

[bhodges]

FYI, tonight's Mahler 8 with Lorin Maazel and the New York Philharmonic will be broadcast live on the radio (WQXR-FM, 96.3) starting at 7:30 p.m.  (The orchestra's website lists the time as 7:00, so there may be some kind of introduction.)  The program will also be archived for online listening, tomorrow through July 10.  More information here and here.

--Bruce

[Opus106]

At times I just find the works too long to sit through in one sitting. With a cd you can listen to movements at a time and digest the music more.

Says the man who probably wouldn't mind sitting through a 15-hour opera.