Music = Color

[karlhenning]

I don't want to spoil the party, but the frequent association of Brahms with autumnal colors is a stereotype. 

0:)

[DavidRoss]

I think synesthesia requires a brain tumor.  Since we are sound in mind and body will simply have to enjoy the music as is.

Speak for yourself, Dave!   

I may not have a tumor (though my wife might think it would explain a lot if I did!) but ever since my last concussion I still suffer some consequences--dysnomia, for instance--but nothing as cool as synesthesia!   

[DavidW]

Speak for yourself, Dave!   

I may not have a tumor (though my wife might think it would explain a lot if I did!) but ever since my last concussion I still suffer some consequences--dysnomia, for instance--but nothing as cool as synesthesia!   

Oh wow the brain is a delicate thing.

[karlhenning]

Oh wow the brain is a delicate thing.

Mine's not!!

[DavidRoss]

Oh wow the brain is a delicate thing.

Yep, three pounds of porridge wired up and stuffed into an upside-down bowl! 

[snyprrr]

Of course tinkling percussion is bright.

Double basses are darker.

And of course you will see different hues during the course of a work. Check out my review of Englund's SQ for an example of this thread.

DSCH 10= blue or green,... maybe some red, but not black

The first thing that pops up as black, for me, is Mossolov's SQ No.1. Very grimey... dirty.

sound=color/light... no arguements here.

There shouldn't be any subjectiveness here. The amount of "waves per..." should correspond accordingly, whether they be sound waves or light "waves." What color moves at 444 cycles per? It should be easy enough to find a scientist to ask. Have we no polymaths here???Keep in mind that color blind people see red and green the same.

But y'alls being too simple.  What about purple? Lime green? Elgin blue? Cyan? Hot pink?

Maybe serious composers don't compose in hot pink?

Segerstam, where are you ???

[Josquin des Prez]

Music = Color

No.

[eyeresist]

Brahms 1st Symphony = black = winter
Brahms 2nd Symphony = white = spring
Brahms 3rd Symphony = green = summer
Brahms 4rd Symphony = yellow = autumn

Oh God - Brahms' symphony cycle as Vivaldi tribute.

[snyprrr]

Vibrational Fields

[schweitzeralan]

Strangely, I am influenced by external factors when feeling the "color" of music. My first recording of Brahms' 4th was Carlos Kleiber on a DG LP. Because it was the "yellow label," I thought of it as "golden" or brass-colored music; because the cover art was a steel-gray photo of Kleiber, there were some steel-gray characteristics to the sound too.

Was Scriabin really a synesthete?

[CD]

What about the Farben (Colors) movement from Schoenberg's Five Pieces for Orchestra? Exactly which colors did he use there? 

[DavidRoss]

What about the Farben (Colors) movement from Schoenberg's Five Pieces for Orchestra? Exactly which colors did he use there? 

If that's where we're going, then I nominate Bliss's Color Symphony.

[eyeresist]

^ Of course.

[jochanaan]

Was Scriabin really a synesthete?

Yes.  That's why he wrote Prometheus and included a "color organ"--and I have never heard of a recent performance that used it as he scored it...?

[Dana]

What's with these terse commands on the internet these days? An order like "Contribute." doesn't make me want to do so.

Dear "The Six,"

You are cordially invited to take place in an internet discussion on the relationship between the aural appreciation of music, and the other senses of the body; specifically, those pertaining to sight and imagination. As you may be aware, the concept of color in music is often bandied about, but I'm not entirely sure that people know what they mean when they say this (myself included). People often speak of the brilliantly colorful music of Ravel, or Rimsky-Korsakov, for instance, but rarely do they say the same thing of Shostakovich's or Smetana's music, for instance. I'm not suggesting that the music of the latter group of example is colorless. Quite the opposite! The flaw lies in the listener's part.

I know a man who speaks about color more than any other person I've ever met. This man is neither conductor, nor composer, nor singer, nor even painter. This man's name was Edward Parmentier, and he plays the harpsichord - an instrument which people often say is used for it's "dry," or "colorless" sound. But the way this man's eyes would light up when discussing the colors inherent in the lines of Bach's music, or Muffat's, or Corelli's!

This reveals a disconnect between the way the listener hears the music, and the way the composer hears it. Color is an inherent part of the music - like orchestration. When a composer writes a certain line, for instance, he doesn't say "well, I suppose I'll give this line to the trombones." He writes a melody which could only be played by trombones, and if any other instrument played it, it would not be the same melody. Since each instrument naturally has it's own particular range of color, the same goes for color, and I think that any given piece of music has an inherent kind of color to it, which one ought to be able to discern without being affected by this condition people call synesthesia.

I hope that you'll join us for this wonderful, and stimulating conversation about music, and I wish you a good day. Sincerely yours,
Dana

[jochanaan]

Very nice, Dana!

...People often speak of the brilliantly colorful music of Ravel, or Rimsky-Korsakov, for instance, but rarely do they say the same thing of Shostakovich's or Smetana's music, for instance. I'm not suggesting that the music of the latter group of example is colorless. Quite the opposite! The flaw lies in the listener's part.

Or maybe just in the way we speak of these things.  I don't feel that either Smetana's or Shostakovich's music lacks color even compared to the notable Ravel or RK. Shostakovich in particular is a master of orchestral color.

...Color is an inherent part of the music - like orchestration. When a composer writes a certain line, for instance, he doesn't say "well, I suppose I'll give this line to the trombones." He writes a melody which could only be played by trombones, and if any other instrument played it, it would not be the same melody. Since each instrument naturally has it's own particular range of color, the same goes for color, and I think that any given piece of music has an inherent kind of color to it, which one ought to be able to discern without being affected by this condition people call synesthesia.

Well said.  But I must add that when musicians talk about "musical color," we don't at all mean the visual part of the electromagnetic spectrum.  Musical "color" is analogous to the color our eyes see in that they both result from vibrational frequencies or frequency combinations, but unless one is gifted with synesthesia, there is no direct correlation between visual color and musical color.

[schweitzeralan]

Yes.  That's why he wrote Prometheus and included a "color organ"--and I have never heard of a recent performance that used it as he scored it...?

Great work!

[DavidRoss]

Dear "The Six,"

You are cordially invited to take place in an internet discussion on the relationship between the aural appreciation of music, and the other senses of the body; specifically, those pertaining to sight and imagination. As you may be aware, the concept of color in music is often bandied about, but I'm not entirely sure that people know what they mean when they say this (myself included). People often speak of the brilliantly colorful music of Ravel, or Rimsky-Korsakov, for instance, but rarely do they say the same thing of Shostakovich's or Smetana's music, for instance. I'm not suggesting that the music of the latter group of example is colorless. Quite the opposite! The flaw lies in the listener's part.

I know a man who speaks about color more than any other person I've ever met. This man is neither conductor, nor composer, nor singer, nor even painter. This man's name was Edward Parmentier, and he plays the harpsichord - an instrument which people often say is used for it's "dry," or "colorless" sound. But the way this man's eyes would light up when discussing the colors inherent in the lines of Bach's music, or Muffat's, or Corelli's!

This reveals a disconnect between the way the listener hears the music, and the way the composer hears it. Color is an inherent part of the music - like orchestration. When a composer writes a certain line, for instance, he doesn't say "well, I suppose I'll give this line to the trombones." He writes a melody which could only be played by trombones, and if any other instrument played it, it would not be the same melody. Since each instrument naturally has it's own particular range of color, the same goes for color, and I think that any given piece of music has an inherent kind of color to it, which one ought to be able to discern without being affected by this condition people call synesthesia.

I hope that you'll join us for this wonderful, and stimulating conversation about music, and I wish you a good day. Sincerely yours,
Dana

Thanks for elaborating.  I got the wrong idea from your original post.  I thought you wanted to discuss the relationship some "see" between music and visual color.  But now I see you actually want to discuss timbre.

Some composers (Ravel the usual example) are fond of a broad palette of orchestral color and employ the range of colors and contrasts to spectacular effect--just as some painters (i.e. Matisse and Bonnard) are noted as colorists. 

The harpsichord is "colorless" because of the limited palette of timbres compared to, say, an organ, piano, or guitar--not because it lacks color altogether.

I would not be surprised if some composers write as you suggest.  Nor would I be surprised to learn that some composers work in the opposite manner, composing the counterpoint before deciding how to voice it.  And I've read of composers having made autograph changes to scores, replacing, say, oboes with clarinets in a given passage.

[Chrone]

Anything by Verdi = Green

[eyeresist]

Yes.  That's why he wrote Prometheus and included a "color organ"--and I have never heard of a recent performance that used it as he scored it...?

If Scriabin was a synesthete, he wouldn't need a colour organ.