The Classical Chat Thread

[North Star]

Good gravy...someone has tweeted (and the Orchestra of St Paul's retweeted) as follows: "John Adams, greatest living composer? Discuss,"

I can only hope they meant John Luther Adams. . .

[Karl Henning]

I can only hope they meant John Luther Adams. . .

Tangentially . . . I don't know if you saw this blog post to which I posted a link on FB;  the content is not the blogger's own remarks (per the paragraph appended at bottom), but an e-mail msg from a freelance pianist, Benjamin Nacar. "Pliable" notes that he does not necessarily agree with all of Nacar's views.  I had to wince a little at his championing Eric Whitacre (can it be mere coincidence that his initials are EW? . . .) and an eybrow was raised by his scorning the JLA piece as "tediously long."

[EigenUser]

Good gravy...someone has tweeted (and the Orchestra of St Paul's retweeted) as follows: "John Adams, greatest living composer? Discuss,"

I'm curious -- why do you seem to hate John (Coolidge) Adams so much?

Not that I care, really. I like some of his stuff, but not nearly enough to get agitated when someone questions his skills as a composer.

Have you heard Gnarly Buttons? I played it in college four years ago in orchestra.

[Karl Henning]

I'm curious -- why do you seem to hate John (Coolidge) Adams so much?

Hang on, friend. Cannot one question the thesis (and even roll one's eyes at a conductor proposing) that he is the greatest living composer, without hating his work?

[Karl Henning]

(That's the wagnerites' card:  If you don't agree that Wagner is The Supreme Geeeenius, you hate him — and that too confirms his supreme importance in Western culture! Visual cue: The Knights Who Say Ni)

[EigenUser]

Hang on, friend. Cannot one question the thesis (and even roll one's eyes at a conductor proposing) that he is the greatest living composer, without hating his work?

Of course, but you've made other comments that seem to show that you don't think highly of him. Again, I don't care. Just wondering. Hate was likely too strong of a word for me to use in this instance.

And KARL! For the millionth time, what do you think of his clarinet concerto Gnarly Buttons?

(It's cool -- I am just anxious to hear what a clarinetist thinks of it ).

[Karl Henning]

Well, I mean you no discourtesy, did not mean to seem to evade your question!

I listened to it once, but long ago.  It did not make any particular impression on me.

[EigenUser]

Well, I mean you no discourtesy, did not mean to seem to evade your question!

I listened to it once, but long ago.  It did not make any particular impression on me.

No problem. I've asked you two other times in the past, though, and you always missed that part of the post.

[Karl Henning]

No problem. I've asked you two other times in the past, though, and you always missed that part of the post.

On a scale of 5, with 5 representing Adams's best work and 1, his least successful:  in your opinion, where would the Gnarly Buttons lie?

[EigenUser]

On a scale of 5, with 5 representing Adams's best work and 1, his least successful:  in your opinion, where would the Gnarly Buttons lie?

I'm not familiar with enough of Adams to be accurate. Probably a 3, but I really enjoy the piece. Why don't we say "it is probably not a masterpiece, but I really like it" .

I love his Shaker Loops, but that probably stems more from my admiration of Steve Reich.

[Karl Henning]

Maybe, maybe not:  of all the Adams I have heard, I think best of Shaker Loops.  Best, by rather a wide margin.

[Ken B]

Good gravy...someone has tweeted (and the Orchestra of St Paul's retweeted) as follows: "John Adams, greatest living composer? Discuss,"

Tweets are short, right? Brevity soul of wit etc?
"Nyman"

Next


(Before Karl has a heart attack, I mean my reply only as a counter example, of a greater living composer, not that Nyman is TGLC. "Sondheim" is longer though, and "Glass" too obvious.) 

[North Star]

Tangentially . . . I don't know if you saw this blog post to which I posted a link on FB;  the content is not the blogger's own remarks (per the paragraph appended at bottom), but an e-mail msg from a freelance pianist, Benjamin Nacar. "Pliable" notes that he does not necessarily agree with all of Nacar's views.  I had to wince a little at his championing Eric Whitacre (can it be mere coincidence that his initials are EW? . . .) and an eybrow was raised by his scorning the JLA piece as "tediously long."

I saw the post, but didn't read it then. I did read it now, and there are indeed a good many things that strike a discord, in addition to the ones you mention, he claims that having another  - as if having another job, or even 'observing more of humanity' inevitably make one a better artist. Sure, if one's art is influenced by social interactions & observing people / animals / plants / algae / bacteria / whatever, then observing them helps, whether one does it while working in a mall or a laboratory, or on one's own time. But plenty of artists have managed to do their work (if not make a living out of it. . .) without having another job where they can learn more about humanity. Nacar might think that something like total serialism is the inevitable result of having composers who don't know about life outside the conservatory, but one could easily make a rather long list of composers active in the 20th century that didn't have other jobs (perhaps aside from teaching or conducting/performing their own music), and managed to write fine music nonetheless, without succumbing to serialism (or at least escaping it) or whitacreish romps with costumes and popular culture references. That piece about Godzilla stomping Mae West & al. is really going to last, I'm sure. . .

And making avant-garde music look like kitsch because of the not-too-original student works getting performed once in a concert setting, that are mostly destined to be forgotten afterwards, is rather short-sighted, too, as that's what has always happened - not every composer of the latter half of 18th century was a Haydn, Mozart, or a Beethoven, and the fact that the nth-rate composers' works from the era before computers are mostly destroyed, doesn't mean that the composers then weren't hindered by the Academia, stuffiness & snobbery like the composers of the modern era. Polyphony, Monteverdi's prima prattica, Beethoven, all received scathing criticisms from those who didn't want music to develop outside their own comfort zones.

Of course I agree with his point about forcing audiences to hear one's work. (Every GMG member ought to be obliged to listen to all of your works posted, and to look at my photographs)

E: And Nate, I recall enjoying Shaker Loops, Harmonielehre & The Chairman Dances, but I didn't think the music was particularly original, nor did it affect me strongly in any way.

[EigenUser]

I was just looking up the location of a nearby farmers' market. It is right across the street from an "Ascension Drive" (I've been listening a lot to Messiaen's L'Ascension).

[Ken B]

I was just looking up the location of a nearby farmers' market. It is right across the street from an "Ascension Drive" (I've been listening a lot to Messiaen's L'Ascension).

Now you mention, downtown there's a Sleep Shoppe franchise at the corner of Mer and Gaspard.

[EigenUser]

Now you mention, downtown there's a Sleep Shoppe franchise at the corner of Mer and Gaspard.

I am still unable to understand how you can like Glass and also find Gaspard de la Nuit to be boring.

Now that I've broken some Glass, what of his can you recommend for me to hear that I might actually like? I love Nyman's MGV -- what Glass might be similar (e.g. "driving")? I've heard the VC (didn't like -- boring and predictable), some knee plays from Einstein on the Beach (really hated -- even more boring), and a few other things that I thought were rather forgettable.

BTW, I heard Nyman's Stroking and Synchronizing yesterday. I liked it alright, but not nearly to the extent of MGV. I'll give it another listen sometime soon.

Oh, and the L'Ascension farmers' market was very cool and also very inexpensive, especially for a farmers' market. Most vendors were Amish (not uncommon in northern Delaware). I got fresh Lima beans. When I asked how to cook them, the lady replied "Well, usually you just boil them for a long time. You could probably use a microwave, though." Then she smiled and added "...but we don't have microwaves, so I'm not sure."

[Ken B]

I am still unable to understand how you can like Glass and also find Gaspard de la Nuit to be boring.

Now that I've broken some Glass, what of his can you recommend for me to hear that I might actually like? I love Nyman's MGV -- what Glass might be similar (e.g. "driving")? I've heard the VC (didn't like -- boring and predictable), some knee plays from Einstein on the Beach (really hated -- even more boring), and a few other things that I thought were rather forgettable.

BTW, I heard Nyman's Stroking and Synchronizing yesterday. I liked it alright, but not nearly to the extent of MGV. I'll give it another listen sometime soon.

Oh, and the L'Ascension farmers' market was very cool and also very inexpensive, especially for a farmers' market. Most vendors were Amish (not uncommon in northern Delaware). I got fresh Lima beans. When I asked how to cook them, the lady replied "Well, usually you just boil them for a long time. You could probably use a microwave, though." Then she smiled and added "...but we don't have microwaves, so I'm not sure."

Glass from the 80s mostly. Amongst recent stuff, symph 8 or 9, any of the concertos. Amongst older, Einstein, Satyagraha especially, 12 parts, company, piano music.
Satyagraha if you want 1 piece, company second

[TheGSMoeller]

The Atlanta Symphony has locked out its musicians, again.

http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/09/07/the-atlanta-symphony-orchestra-locks-out-its-players-again/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

[Henk]

What is it with the obsession for Shostakovich among members?

[EigenUser]

What is it with the obsession for Shostakovich among members?

+1

I don't hate Shostakovich by any means, or even dislike him. I really enjoy some works of his (the 9th symphony, yeah!), but many leave me cold. I certainly think he is a great composer, but when I'm in need of something emotional I'd rather listen to Mahler (whom you could probably ask the same question about ). Just a personal preference. Maybe that will change in a few years -- I don't know. It's impossible for me to predict my tastes down to a tee.

We all have our composers that we are obsessed with. For me it is Bartok, Ravel, Ligeti, and Messiaen (to a lesser extent would be Haydn, Ockeghem, Schumann, and Feldman, among others -- Webern might be coming soon). Who knows why?!